Are there more people working than not working in the UK?

[bulldog5046]

Interesting question that got me wondering about how other countries compare to the UK. Helpfully someone has done the hard work up to 2012:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment-to-populat...

Overall, we don't seem to fair too badly...

[mph1977]

Studio117 said:

Cemesis said:

bingybongy said:

So 6 or 7 million public employees don't count as being at work?
I'll let my wife know the 10 hours a day she spends in the hospital aren't work.

Of the 30 million who work, only about half of those are full time. Of the 15 million in full time employment, half of those are public sector (like your wife). The problem with public sector jobs is that they are paid from the tax pot, then they themselves pay tax and the money gets churned around. Full time private sector jobs make up about 10% of the UK population, which is why we are in so much debt.

The problem with most public sector jobs is the lack of consequences and culpability for major cockups. Missed a deadline? Oh well...

Really ? so why in that case are the NMC,. GMC and HCPC so busy with Fitness to practice cases given the majority of health and social care in the UK is directly or indirectly public sector funded ...

[otolith]

With public sector jobs, the question is really whether it's something you would otherwise be willing to pay someone in the private sector to do, were you not being forced to pay for it. Where medics are concerned, I think the answer is generally "yes".

[bingybongy]

Studio117 said:

Cemesis said:

bingybongy said:

So 6 or 7 million public employees don't count as being at work?
I'll let my wife know the 10 hours a day she spends in the hospital aren't work.

Of the 30 million who work, only about half of those are full time. Of the 15 million in full time employment, half of those are public sector (like your wife). The problem with public sector jobs is that they are paid from the tax pot, then they themselves pay tax and the money gets churned around. Full time private sector jobs make up about 10% of the UK population, which is why we are in so much debt.

The problem with most public sector jobs is the lack of consequences and culpability for major cockups. Missed a deadline? Oh well...

Missed a deadline... Oh well that person I was caring for died.

You are a tt.

[bingybongy]

DervVW said:

bingybongy said:

So 6 or 7 million public employees don't count as being at work?
I'll let my wife know the 10 hours a day she spends in the hospital aren't work.

I'm pretty sure, they were not devaluing the work your wife does. Just that from a purely income making prospect for the UK income, it does not generate wealth.

So everyone has to generate wealth?

I hope you never have renal failure.

If you do I'll remind her she is a drain on finances.

You're also an idiot.

[DervVW]

bingybongy said:

DervVW said:

bingybongy said:

So 6 or 7 million public employees don't count as being at work?
I'll let my wife know the 10 hours a day she spends in the hospital aren't work.

I'm pretty sure, they were not devaluing the work your wife does. Just that from a purely income making prospect for the UK income, it does not generate wealth.

So everyone has to generate wealth?

I hope you never have renal failure.

If you do I'll remind her she is a drain on finances.

You're also an idiot.

I'll thank you to read my post again. Then you can decide who the idiot is.

[FamilyDub]

lamboman100 said:

Nine in 10 Scottish households receive more from the UK state than they pay in tax.

Roughly 1 in 10 are net contributors.

Source? Even with the lazy bd people around me in Scotland I find that hard to believe.

[xRIEx]

DervVW said:

bingybongy said:

So 6 or 7 million public employees don't count as being at work?
I'll let my wife know the 10 hours a day she spends in the hospital aren't work.

I'm pretty sure, they were not devaluing the work your wife does. Just that from a purely income making prospect for the UK income, it does not generate wealth.

If that person on the hospital bed is an 'income generating' worker then yes, saving their life and helping them return to work is helping to generate wealth.

Look at 'economic cost' calculations of sickness, traffic accidents etc. and their effect on the economy.

[anonymous-user]

bingybongy said:

Missed a deadline... Oh well that person I was caring for died.

You are a tt.

Seemed not to bother David Nicholson at all....

[Axionknight]

FamilyDub said:

Source? Even with the lazy bd people around me in Scotland I find that hard to believe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214477/Nine-Scottish-households-benefits-pay-tax.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/sc...

[mph1977]

xRIEx said:

DervVW said:

bingybongy said:

So 6 or 7 million public employees don't count as being at work?
I'll let my wife know the 10 hours a day she spends in the hospital aren't work.

I'm pretty sure, they were not devaluing the work your wife does. Just that from a purely income making prospect for the UK income, it does not generate wealth.

If that person on the hospital bed is an 'income generating' worker then yes, saving their life and helping them return to work is helping to generate wealth.

Look at 'economic cost' calculations of sickness, traffic accidents etc. and their effect on the economy.

this is where the simple and grossly broad brush assertions of the borderline socipoath libertarians fall down , they simply don't realise just how expensive high quality care is.

[Jabbah]

Axionknight said:

FamilyDub said:

Source? Even with the lazy bd people around me in Scotland I find that hard to believe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214477/Nine-Scottish-households-benefits-pay-tax.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/sc...

Well, the UK average is around 60% households as net beneficiaries of the state. In general most of the UK is not that different to Scotland though and it is the South East and London that reduce the UK average.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance...

Forget Scotish independence. We should annex London and the South East

[FamilyDub]

Axionknight said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214477/Ni...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/sc...

Good grief!

It'd be intriguing to see a personal contribution/use analysis.

[CC07 PEU]

bingybongy said:

Studio117 said:

Cemesis said:

bingybongy said:

So 6 or 7 million public employees don't count as being at work?
I'll let my wife know the 10 hours a day she spends in the hospital aren't work.

Of the 30 million who work, only about half of those are full time. Of the 15 million in full time employment, half of those are public sector (like your wife). The problem with public sector jobs is that they are paid from the tax pot, then they themselves pay tax and the money gets churned around. Full time private sector jobs make up about 10% of the UK population, which is why we are in so much debt.

The problem with most public sector jobs is the lack of consequences and culpability for major cockups. Missed a deadline? Oh well...

Missed a deadline... Oh well that person I was caring for died.

You are a tt.

No he's not, he's got a very valid point. We're not talking about doctors/nurses here, rather the lazy fkers in council office jobs. In my experience, of all the dealings I've ever had with council workers, I've realised if their organisation were run like a private sector company they'd be out of business in about three months! Two weeks just to acknowledge an email, always clocking off early, completely ignoring any written communication, not doing their jobs to a high standard, not qualified in what they're doing, appalling I.T. systems etc. The reason for this? No targets, lack of consequences for their actions (amongst others) being the main factors - as has been pointed out already.

[mph1977]

CC07 PEU said:

No he's not, he's got a very valid point. We're not talking about doctors/nurses here, rather the lazy fkers in council office jobs. In my experience, of all the dealings I've ever had with council workers, I've realised if their organisation were run like a private sector company they'd be out of business in about three months! Two weeks just to acknowledge an email, always clocking off early, completely ignoring any written communication, not doing their jobs to a high standard, not qualified in what they're doing, appalling I.T. systems etc. The reason for this? No targets, lack of consequences for their actions (amongst others) being the main factors - as has been pointed out already.

if you mean the Council idiots and politicla commissars say so rather than the blanket all Public sector workers are unaccountable sponging parasites ...

[xRIEx]

CC07 PEU said:

We're not talking about doctors/nurses here, rather the lazy fkers in council office jobs.

Oh sorry, I thought he was talking about public sector workers. The bit where he typed "public sector jobs" obviously confused me.

[LucreLout]

bingybongy said:

So 6 or 7 million public employees don't count as being at work?
I'll let my wife know the 10 hours a day she spends in the hospital aren't work.

Economically, from the point if view of paying taxes, no.

If you had a treasury with 1M in it, 10 public employees earning 100k, and a 50 % tax rate. When you can explain how payments in year 3 get funded, you'll understand the point.

[P-Jay]

bingybongy said:

So 6 or 7 million public employees don't count as being at work?
I'll let my wife know the 10 hours a day she spends in the hospital aren't work.

Same here, I can't wait to tell mine that she really doesn't need to pay Income Tax, National Insurance, VAT, Duty on Petrol, VED, etc etc etc because in the eyes of some public sector workers are just a drain on the tax payers.

[Studio117]

xRIEx said:

CC07 PEU said:

We're not talking about doctors/nurses here, rather the lazy fkers in council office jobs.

Oh sorry, I thought he was talking about public sector workers. The bit where he typed "public sector jobs" obviously confused me.

If you can't read between the lines thats not my problem. It might be worth engaging your brain next time...

[Eric Mc]

The problem is that one persons definition of a "useless public sector worker" may not be the same as another's.

Maybe someone should compile a list of public sector workers subdivided into those who are worthwhile and those who are a drain - so everyone is clear as to who should be slagged off.