A Federal UK?

[Martin4x4]

Sir Humphrey said:

What about when Russia starts annexing Ukraine (who are NATO allies)? Should we now invade Russia?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fHfdSi-GDo

Ukraine are not NATO members/allies but did receive a security guarantee in exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons following the break up of the USSR.

No we don't need to attack Russia, we should provide the Ukraine with some modern weapons like these Javlin Anti-Tank Missiles. These would really make a mess of Putins day.

[Martin4x4]

XJ Flyer said:

what's needed is more localised regional government that keeps money earn't in southern England for southern England for example.

So much ignorance in such a small package.

Edited by Martin4x4 on Saturday 20th September 09:53

[hidetheelephants]

Sir Humphrey said:

s2art said:

OK, what if Australia is attacked? Are you sating we shouldnt get involved? I think your idea just doesnt work, there may be many reasons why we would wage war without being directly attacked. A pre-emptive strike by us being one, rather than waiting for the enemy to strike.

On the basis that Australia and the United Kingdom are two separate countries 10,000 miles apart then yes.

Should we have gone into Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded in 1979? Since you support going to war to defend one foreign country you must want to do that every time a foreign country gets invaded or you look like a bit of a hypocrite.

Pre-emptive strikes are almost always an excuse to invade or bomb somewhere, those were our reasons for going into Iraq, since then America, Spain, Britain and Australia (the main countries that went into Iraq) have been bombed whereas Sweden, Switzerland, Germany and Canada (countries who didn't) have not. Costa Rica doesn't even have an army at all and they haven't been invaded or attacked for a while.

The UK has a defence treaty with Australia so I imagine mutual support is part of that agreement.

[XJ Flyer]

Martin4x4 said:

s2art said:

XJ Flyer said:

s2art said:

Ukraine is not in NATO (if it had been it never would have been invaded). And we have no interests in Ukraine. If we (the West) did have an interest then you can be sure that NATO would be involved, as we did in Kosovo.

Trust me we can't win a conventional war against Russia and the US population would never be willing to accept the issue of mutually assured destruction if/when it all inevitably goes nuclear,over Ukraine.

Not convinced we (the West) couldnt win a conventional war against Russia. Even the UK has a bigger economy than Russia. Not that we would ever try unless Russia started it. If the Ukraine had been in NATO then Russia would never be willing to accept the issue of MAD either.

He is an ignorant hoon spouting bullst.

Russian military technology is obselete, their best Tanks and Aircraft date from the 70's and havent been replaced since the fall of the USSR.

Their best tank is the T90 an upgraded T80 which is an upgrade of the T72 that are no match for Western Tanks. In the Gulf war they were useless against our tanks, all three use the same 125mm smoothbore gun that canno penetrate our armour even at short rank and their armour is extremely vunerable even to fighting vehicles like Warrior and Bradley not only just tanks.

Their best Fighters are the Mig 29 and Mig 25 were no match for Tornados never mind Typhoons.

They don't even have the numbers on their side any more.

Edited by Martin4x4 on Saturday 20th September 09:52

Everyone knows that Russian tanks are junk just like most of them and the Sherman were during WW2 compared to the Tiger.That didn't stop the Tigers running out of ammunition before us and the Russians ran out of tanks and their unfortunate crews.Or for that matter you can't kill four tanks at once with one decent gun.As for that doctrine not working that obviously just increases the incentive to use their strategic nuclear arsenal and end it all rather than be defeated.So as I said what are NATO waiting for.Go for it by moving into Ukraine and pushing the Russians out of Crimea and and see what happens.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 20th September 14:23

[XJ Flyer]

Martin4x4 said:

XJ Flyer said:

what's needed is more localised regional government that keeps money earn't in southern England for southern England for example.

So much ignorance in such a small package.

Edited by Martin4x4 on Saturday 20th September 09:53

That view would obviously depend on wether you happen to be a winner or a loser by keeping the situation in which we pay for everyone else at our expense going.It seems like Boris Johnson amongst others are finally waking up to that fact.

[XJ Flyer]

Martin4x4 said:

rs1952 said:

I suppose this is always an option...

You do realise those are just as arbitary as England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

Any devolution must reflect the modern situation with regard to cities, transport and infrastucture to gain maximum benefits.

The typically federalist view in which then the designation of UK becomes an arbitrary inconvenience for the greater good of the USE.The fact is federalists are just tied to their Soviet style indoctrination and who thereby don't like the idea of localised government or self determination and national sovereignty.Which is what makes them so dangerous.

[s2art]

XJ Flyer said:

Everyone knows that Russian tanks are junk just like most of them and the Sherman were during WW2 compared to the Tiger.That didn't stop the Tigers running out of ammunition before us and the Russians ran out of tanks and their unfortunate crews.Or for that matter you can't kill four tanks at once with one decent gun.As for that doctrine not working that obviously just increases the incentive to use their strategic nuclear arsenal and end it all rather than be defeated.So as I said what are NATO waiting for.Go for it by moving into Ukraine and pushing the Russians out of Crimea and and see what happens.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 20th September 14:23

Ukraine just isnt worth the hassle. If NATO moved in Putin would fold like a cheap suit, but it would damage trade for years. (and Germany is too dependent on Russian gas).