Left wingers are getting a bit scared
Discussion
Whatever happens is it really likely that it will go through during the course of this parliament? After all we are only 8 months away from a general election.
Also the Lib Dems, who are not the most loyal of coalition partners, have 11 seats in Scotland so will they really vote through a 'no Scottish MPs can vote on English only matters' type proposal?
Also the Lib Dems, who are not the most loyal of coalition partners, have 11 seats in Scotland so will they really vote through a 'no Scottish MPs can vote on English only matters' type proposal?
Edited by BlackLabel on Saturday 20th September 16:00
It's always puzzled me why we agree we need people experienced in the job for which they apply, but in the case of politicians we rescind that condition and call for experience in another, totally irrelevant, field. Politics is not about people, it's about politics. They are not the same thing.
Thorodin said:
It's always puzzled me why we agree we need people experienced in the job for which they apply, but in the case of politicians we rescind that condition and call for experience in another, totally irrelevant, field. Politics is not about people, it's about politics. They are not the same thing.
It's possible that people are loooking at what politics was once: not a noble but a necessary profession with access to specialist advisers who acted in the nation's interest, and at what it's become - a pr exercise involving the arts of plausible deniability, genuinely fake sincerity, spin and self-interest supported by carefully appointed advisers who put career before country and tell politicians what they want to hear. All of this coupled to little or no knowledge or understanding of the activities affected by new legislation, from education to finance and business to the military. In the face of this, rather than viewing any acquisition of understanding as 'going native' and signalling an imminent move to a new portfolio, it could be seen as helpful. Shuffling people around in a musical chairs pantomime from one area of incompetence to another isn't helpful either. The career politician simply inherits a new set of lickspittles telling them what they want to hear and the circus rolls on. This may be seen as undesirable by some folk, and capable of betterment. After all it's not a compulsory state of affairs, improvement merely requires an almost unachievable culture change, part of which would involve valuing experience beyond the circus, in professions relevant to political office where evidence is valued more highly than dogma and rationality still operates.CDP said:
...Birmingham is probably as distant culturally from London as Manchester but if an English or Federal parliament are to be geographically separate they need to be far away from each other.
I agree and I think York would be a good nod to history and sufficiently different to London however would the Lancastrians get upset? turbobloke said:
It's possible that people are loooking at what politics was once: not a noble but a necessary profession with access to specialist advisers who acted in the nation's interest, and at what it's become - a pr exercise involving the arts of plausible deniability, genuinely fake sincerity, spin and self-interest supported by carefully appointed advisers who put career before country and tell politicians what they want to hear. All of this coupled to little or no knowledge or understanding of the activities affected by new legislation, from education to finance and business to the military. In the face of this, rather than viewing any acquisition of understanding as 'going native' and signalling an imminent move to a new portfolio, it could be seen as helpful. Shuffling people around in a musical chairs pantomime from one area of incompetence to another isn't helpful either. The career politician simply inherits a new set of lickspittles telling them what they want to hear and the circus rolls on. This may be seen as undesirable by some folk, and capable of betterment. After all it's not a compulsory state of affairs, improvement merely requires an almost unachievable culture change, part of which would involve valuing experience beyond the circus, in professions relevant to political office where evidence is valued more highly than dogma and rationality still operates.
Sorry but could you put some paragraphs in next time?This hurts my old eyes.
cloggy said:
turbobloke said:
It's possible that people are loooking at what politics was once: not a noble but a necessary profession with access to specialist advisers who acted in the nation's interest, and at what it's become - a pr exercise involving the arts of plausible deniability, genuinely fake sincerity, spin and self-interest supported by carefully appointed advisers who put career before country and tell politicians what they want to hear. All of this coupled to little or no knowledge or understanding of the activities affected by new legislation, from education to finance and business to the military. In the face of this, rather than viewing any acquisition of understanding as 'going native' and signalling an imminent move to a new portfolio, it could be seen as helpful. Shuffling people around in a musical chairs pantomime from one area of incompetence to another isn't helpful either. The career politician simply inherits a new set of lickspittles telling them what they want to hear and the circus rolls on. This may be seen as undesirable by some folk, and capable of betterment. After all it's not a compulsory state of affairs, improvement merely requires an almost unachievable culture change, part of which would involve valuing experience beyond the circus, in professions relevant to political office where evidence is valued more highly than dogma and rationality still operates.
Sorry but could you put some paragraphs in next time?This hurts my old eyes.
RichB said:
MarshPhantom said:
Do voters care about the "West Lothian" issue? I think most people couldn't care less.
Can't speak for others but I do and I believe others do as well. MarshPhantom said:
Do voters care about the "West Lothian" issue? I think most people couldn't care less.
I'd imagine it isn't one of the first things that leaps to a lot of peoples minds, it certainly isn't with me, but when you're reminded it does of course seem immensely wrong.Where that sits in the long list of things that make you decide who to vote for goodness knows.
MarshPhantom said:
Do voters care about the "West Lothian" issue? I think most people couldn't care less.
Many people are no doubt unaware of the issue and for those who are aware it isn't (or wasn't) a burning issue, however, it is very difficult to justify and is certainly unfair. Anything that's palpably unfair has the potential to cause outrage, especially after a very public debate that's seen Scotland get extra powers not available to England.If it was a deliberate tactic by the Conservatives, and I'd like to think it was, then it's brilliant. It significantly disadvantages Labour in a way that's very difficult for them to defend in any coherent way.
Steffan said:
gpo746 said:
watched that Chuka Umunna with Andrew Neil last night.
completely fell apart when asked about it.
Andrew Neil has a particularly direct approach to politicians in directing questions repeatedly until they actually answer the actual question rather than trying to stick to a pre written script from the Labour bullscompletely fell apart when asked about it.
t department. Milliband being the worst offender. Chuka Umunna ( really rolls of the tongue) attempted that gambit and was Immediately called out by Neil who repeatedly pitched his questions. In the end Neil commented on the refusal to answer any questions he asked and CU looked the fool he is. There really are no quick fire responders on the Labour team currently with the blustering tongue tied Balls, the pathetic ineffective Miliband and the ungracious Yvette Cooper all falling short on the good interviewee stakes. Without a script they cannot function. With a script they look like automatons. Indeed probably are automatons. Given the dreadful calibre of the opposition the coalition should be riding high. Regrettably tye coalition is not much better but they have grappled with our public expenditure over borrowing requirement and the economic situation of the UK is improving.
If the Tories can act effectively and make the electoral system in the UK fair for all the UK members them the unfair advantage to Labour gets permanently buried and hopefully so do the chances of Labour actually winning another general election. We can but hope.
He had a number of stock answers. Almost regardless of the question he would just twist the discussion so he could parrot out one of his stock answers. Push him hard repeatedly and he could be exposed.
MarshPhantom said:
Do voters care about the "West Lothian" issue? I think most people couldn't care less.
I'm not really sure why you would think most people couldn't care less?I would say it's an issue which a lot of people hadn't thought much about, or hadn't even realised existed, but it's certainly going to be a hot topic now. Think about how opinionated people are regarding our membership of the EU; even those people who seemingly take no interest in general politics do seem to take notice of that question.
UKIP and the Conservatives will make sure the West Lothian issue receives a lot of attention, and rightly so in my opinion, regardless of political allegiances.
PorkInsider said:
MarshPhantom said:
Do voters care about the "West Lothian" issue? I think most people couldn't care less.
I'm not really sure why you would think most people couldn't care less?I would say it's an issue which a lot of people hadn't thought much about, or hadn't even realised existed, but it's certainly going to be a hot topic now. Think about how opinionated people are regarding our membership of the EU; even those people who seemingly take no interest in general politics do seem to take notice of that question.
UKIP and the Conservatives will make sure the West Lothian issue receives a lot of attention, and rightly so in my opinion, regardless of political allegiances.
Which is in reality only fair since these seats are represented in Scotland with its own Parliament. However the Labour party pretend otherwise. Their shameful desire to obtain power by cheating will not be accepted. And these actions will reflect badly upon them for being so dishonest. The attempt to twist the fair and reasonable election of MP's further is just typical of the self serving crockery at the heart of Labour.
It's a pity that some of our politicians are that dishonest. But they are and the exposure should ensure even more voters transfer away elsewhere. In a country noted for its concern with correct electoral procudures suggesting this should continue which is what the Labour party would like, is absolutely unacceptable and wrong. The entire structure of the political game in the UK is changing and the Labour party have been caught out. Good. I hope they fail to recover.
Edited by Steffan on Saturday 20th September 19:04
Thorodin said:
It's always puzzled me why we agree we need people experienced in the job for which they apply, but in the case of politicians we rescind that condition and call for experience in another, totally irrelevant, field. Politics is not about people, it's about politics. They are not the same thing.
Politics is a special case. It's about running the country, but the skills of a career politician are all about getting the job, not doing it.MarshPhantom said:
Do voters care about the "West Lothian" issue? I think most people couldn't care less.
Spoke to a few people about this since Thursday. All are very much in the do care about this issue and want it changed. I am unsure why you think people couldn't care less. The independence vote has brought it into the limelight and I cannot imaging CMD letting it slip out of people's consciousness.
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