Left wingers are getting a bit scared
Discussion
If its by accident or design, CMD has just stitched Beaker up like a kipper.(but not in a UKIP sense.)
The more I see of Beaker, the more I'm sure he is a totally idiot. Brown was the worst PM we have ever had as far as policies and personality plus a few other things was concerned but at least he was a passionate speaker.
Unless its written down in front of him, Beaker seems to be totally incapable of making any kind of on the hoof remark without consulting with focus groups and advisors first. If the parties agree to the televised debates this time, CMD will run rings round him and Farage will just destroy him. If and its a big if, CMD has pulled a fast one then Beaker clearly was more than a bit dense not to see it coming.
But CMD can't rest on his laurels. He has a very delicate balancing act to carry out. And with the funds he is pledged to give to Scotland, if the English votes on English issues isn't carried forward, he has just given UKIP one hell of a big stick to beat him with.
The more I see of Beaker, the more I'm sure he is a totally idiot. Brown was the worst PM we have ever had as far as policies and personality plus a few other things was concerned but at least he was a passionate speaker.
Unless its written down in front of him, Beaker seems to be totally incapable of making any kind of on the hoof remark without consulting with focus groups and advisors first. If the parties agree to the televised debates this time, CMD will run rings round him and Farage will just destroy him. If and its a big if, CMD has pulled a fast one then Beaker clearly was more than a bit dense not to see it coming.
But CMD can't rest on his laurels. He has a very delicate balancing act to carry out. And with the funds he is pledged to give to Scotland, if the English votes on English issues isn't carried forward, he has just given UKIP one hell of a big stick to beat him with.
The Hypno-Toad said:
If its by accident or design, CMD has just stitched Beaker up like a kipper.(but not in a UKIP sense.)
The more I see of Beaker, the more I'm sure he is a totally idiot. Brown was the worst PM we have ever had as far as policies and personality plus a few other things was concerned but at least he was a passionate speaker.
Unless its written down in front of him, Beaker seems to be totally incapable of making any kind of on the hoof remark without consulting with focus groups and advisors first. If the parties agree to the televised debates this time, CMD will run rings round him and Farage will just destroy him. If and its a big if, CMD has pulled a fast one then Beaker clearly was more than a bit dense not to see it coming.
But CMD can't rest on his laurels. He has a very delicate balancing act to carry out. And with the funds he is pledged to give to Scotland, if the English votes on English issues isn't carried forward, he has just given UKIP one hell of a big stick to beat him with.
Good post. The downside of the promises to Scotland impacting on the English being but one aspect. But Cameron does appear to now be in a position to mince the prospects of Labour. I wonder if he will?The more I see of Beaker, the more I'm sure he is a totally idiot. Brown was the worst PM we have ever had as far as policies and personality plus a few other things was concerned but at least he was a passionate speaker.
Unless its written down in front of him, Beaker seems to be totally incapable of making any kind of on the hoof remark without consulting with focus groups and advisors first. If the parties agree to the televised debates this time, CMD will run rings round him and Farage will just destroy him. If and its a big if, CMD has pulled a fast one then Beaker clearly was more than a bit dense not to see it coming.
But CMD can't rest on his laurels. He has a very delicate balancing act to carry out. And with the funds he is pledged to give to Scotland, if the English votes on English issues isn't carried forward, he has just given UKIP one hell of a big stick to beat him with.
toppstuff said:
Post Scottish referendum, all the talk is of political reform, devolution and the creation of a more federal UK. There is even a move where the Tories look set to campaign the general election on the idea of an English parliament to match the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish ones.
This is all well and good. It is a positive evolution of UK democracy.
It is also getting the Left a bit frightened. If an English parliament passes laws that Scottish and Welsh MP's cannot vote on ( because they affect only English people ) then Labour will lose a lot of influence. Not having left wing MP's from Scotland and Wales to vote policies through will drastically reduce the power of the Labour party. England on its own, is proportionally rather more Tory than the entire Uk taken together.
Milliband is looking properly fazed by this. Labour's trousers are falling down. They've walked into a position all on their own because of the Scottish referendum and now they are there, they suddenly realise that they have walked into a trap that can really damage them.
People think Cameron is a fool. I disagree. I think he knows what he is doing or, at least, some of his advisors do.
The whole proposition from the Tories, Labour and UKIP looks set to change as we move toward next years election. I am not sure Milliband will last that long, either.
Interesting times..
As long as Non-Labour voters continue to misspell Miliband then he's probably the right man for the job. This is all well and good. It is a positive evolution of UK democracy.
It is also getting the Left a bit frightened. If an English parliament passes laws that Scottish and Welsh MP's cannot vote on ( because they affect only English people ) then Labour will lose a lot of influence. Not having left wing MP's from Scotland and Wales to vote policies through will drastically reduce the power of the Labour party. England on its own, is proportionally rather more Tory than the entire Uk taken together.
Milliband is looking properly fazed by this. Labour's trousers are falling down. They've walked into a position all on their own because of the Scottish referendum and now they are there, they suddenly realise that they have walked into a trap that can really damage them.
People think Cameron is a fool. I disagree. I think he knows what he is doing or, at least, some of his advisors do.
The whole proposition from the Tories, Labour and UKIP looks set to change as we move toward next years election. I am not sure Milliband will last that long, either.
Interesting times..
toppstuff said:
Fittster said:
Look at the demographic of the vote, right wingers should be scared. They will be dead in 30 years.
"The website ConservativeHome (which now stages its own conferences) last month surveyed Conservative constituency associations which do return membership figures. It ads up to just under 60,000 paid-up members. This suggests total membership is unlikely to exceed 100,000 — less than half of the 253,600 when Cameron was elected leader.
‘Never mind trade unions, the Church of England, county cricket: the Conservative party has taken over the role of Britain’s most rapidly declining institution. With an average age of 68, the Conservative party is like a rural bus service whose clientele has dwindled year-on-year to an elderly rump, to the point at which it would be cheaper to replace it with a dial-a-ride taxi service.’"
This is a problem in politics in general. The Labour party is pretty skint these days and membership isn't exactly bursting."The website ConservativeHome (which now stages its own conferences) last month surveyed Conservative constituency associations which do return membership figures. It ads up to just under 60,000 paid-up members. This suggests total membership is unlikely to exceed 100,000 — less than half of the 253,600 when Cameron was elected leader.
‘Never mind trade unions, the Church of England, county cricket: the Conservative party has taken over the role of Britain’s most rapidly declining institution. With an average age of 68, the Conservative party is like a rural bus service whose clientele has dwindled year-on-year to an elderly rump, to the point at which it would be cheaper to replace it with a dial-a-ride taxi service.’"
Being a member of a political party just isn't common anymore. It doesn't meant that people don't vote though.
If anything it seems from this thread is that the Tory boy rigtht are getting scared, 'Cameron played a blinder', jeeze you must share me what your smoking as mine obviously ain't strong enough.
His actions were blind panic and now he is simply trying to make the best of what was an absolute disastrous campaign on both sides.
His actions were blind panic and now he is simply trying to make the best of what was an absolute disastrous campaign on both sides.
jogon said:
If anything it seems from this thread is that the Tory boy rigtht are getting scared...
The tory boy right, no idea, but the tory men don't seem that way.SpeedMattersNot said:
As long as Non-Labour voters continue to misspell Miliband then he's probably the right man for the job.
Maybe he'd be good at Scrabble, he must be good at something. As Labour 'leader' or prospective PM he's a joke, so for tory men and women too he's the right man for the job he's in right now.McWigglebum4th said:
not entirely an accurate picture
There is more labour MPs inside the M25 then there is in scotland
So don't get too self congratulatory
Your right, labour only win seats in poor areas with high levels of unemployment, poverty and ethnic majority's .....There is more labour MPs inside the M25 then there is in scotland
So don't get too self congratulatory
Meanwhile all the nice places that one might actually want to live in and raise ones children in vote Tory.
Go figure...
Edit to add, I think you mean that there "are" more labour seats inside the M25 than there "are" in Scotland.
Or "is" you just being funny?
Edited by pete a on Friday 19th September 21:03
jogon said:
If anything it seems from this thread is that the Tory boy rigtht are getting scared, 'Cameron played a blinder', jeeze you must share me what your smoking as mine obviously ain't strong enough.
His actions were blind panic and now he is simply trying to make the best of what was an absolute disastrous campaign on both sides.
Ahaa, yes, the rhetoric I am sure Miliband will be using soon - bravo.His actions were blind panic and now he is simply trying to make the best of what was an absolute disastrous campaign on both sides.
Can't you just admit that Cameron's cronies have played an ace card? The same way I can quite happily admit that Blair conducted an absolute blinder of a campaign in 1997.
Anyway, we'll all look stupid next year if Labour gain a majority.
MrBarry123 said:
jogon said:
If anything it seems from this thread is that the Tory boy rigtht are getting scared, 'Cameron played a blinder', jeeze you must share me what your smoking as mine obviously ain't strong enough.
His actions were blind panic and now he is simply trying to make the best of what was an absolute disastrous campaign on both sides.
Ahaa, yes, the rhetoric I am sure Miliband will be using soon - bravo.His actions were blind panic and now he is simply trying to make the best of what was an absolute disastrous campaign on both sides.
Can't you just admit that Cameron's cronies have played an ace card? The same way I can quite happily admit that Blair conducted an absolute blinder of a campaign in 1997.
Anyway, we'll all look stupid next year if Labour gain a majority.
davepoth said:
If CMD did "pull a blinder" it was an incredible game of brinksmanship to put the entire UK at risk to secure his party's future. Has he been playing a game that long, using Salmond and Scotland as pawns for the whole term of the parliament in his Macciavellian scheme to ruin Labour? If he did, it'll be an epic memoir. But I think he lucked into it last week.
Luck isn't luck. It's the net result of practice and strategic planning."The harder I practice, the luckier I get."
toppstuff said:
Fittster said:
Look at the demographic of the vote, right wingers should be scared. They will be dead in 30 years.
"The website ConservativeHome (which now stages its own conferences) last month surveyed Conservative constituency associations which do return membership figures. It ads up to just under 60,000 paid-up members. This suggests total membership is unlikely to exceed 100,000 — less than half of the 253,600 when Cameron was elected leader.
‘Never mind trade unions, the Church of England, county cricket: the Conservative party has taken over the role of Britain’s most rapidly declining institution. With an average age of 68, the Conservative party is like a rural bus service whose clientele has dwindled year-on-year to an elderly rump, to the point at which it would be cheaper to replace it with a dial-a-ride taxi service.’"
This is a problem in politics in general. The Labour party is pretty skint these days and membership isn't exactly bursting."The website ConservativeHome (which now stages its own conferences) last month surveyed Conservative constituency associations which do return membership figures. It ads up to just under 60,000 paid-up members. This suggests total membership is unlikely to exceed 100,000 — less than half of the 253,600 when Cameron was elected leader.
‘Never mind trade unions, the Church of England, county cricket: the Conservative party has taken over the role of Britain’s most rapidly declining institution. With an average age of 68, the Conservative party is like a rural bus service whose clientele has dwindled year-on-year to an elderly rump, to the point at which it would be cheaper to replace it with a dial-a-ride taxi service.’"
Being a member of a political party just isn't common anymore. It doesn't meant that people don't vote though.
Not much for the enterprising or the average person to choose between them just boring s
t and platitudes lies and spin ..Steffan said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
If its by accident or design, CMD has just stitched Beaker up like a kipper.(but not in a UKIP sense.)
The more I see of Beaker, the more I'm sure he is a totally idiot. Brown was the worst PM we have ever had as far as policies and personality plus a few other things was concerned but at least he was a passionate speaker.
Unless its written down in front of him, Beaker seems to be totally incapable of making any kind of on the hoof remark without consulting with focus groups and advisors first. If the parties agree to the televised debates this time, CMD will run rings round him and Farage will just destroy him. If and its a big if, CMD has pulled a fast one then Beaker clearly was more than a bit dense not to see it coming.
But CMD can't rest on his laurels. He has a very delicate balancing act to carry out. And with the funds he is pledged to give to Scotland, if the English votes on English issues isn't carried forward, he has just given UKIP one hell of a big stick to beat him with.
Good post. The downside of the promises to Scotland impacting on the English being but one aspect. But Cameron does appear to now be in a position to mince the prospects of Labour. I wonder if he will?The more I see of Beaker, the more I'm sure he is a totally idiot. Brown was the worst PM we have ever had as far as policies and personality plus a few other things was concerned but at least he was a passionate speaker.
Unless its written down in front of him, Beaker seems to be totally incapable of making any kind of on the hoof remark without consulting with focus groups and advisors first. If the parties agree to the televised debates this time, CMD will run rings round him and Farage will just destroy him. If and its a big if, CMD has pulled a fast one then Beaker clearly was more than a bit dense not to see it coming.
But CMD can't rest on his laurels. He has a very delicate balancing act to carry out. And with the funds he is pledged to give to Scotland, if the English votes on English issues isn't carried forward, he has just given UKIP one hell of a big stick to beat him with.
1. Support English devolution and see themselves become unable to influence policy in those areas devolved.
2. Oppose English devolution and lose any electoral credibility in England.
toppstuff said:
It is also getting the Left a bit frightened. If an English parliament passes laws that Scottish and Welsh MP's cannot vote on ( because they affect only English people ) then Labour will lose a lot of influence. Not having left wing MP's from Scotland and Wales to vote policies through will drastically reduce the power of the Labour party. England on its own, is proportionally rather more Tory than the entire Uk taken together.
Milliband is looking properly fazed by this. Labour's trousers are falling down. They've walked into a position all on their own because of the Scottish referendum and now they are there, they suddenly realise that they have walked into a trap that can really damage them.
The delicious irony here is that Blair's blunder gave power to the Scottish nationalists.Milliband is looking properly fazed by this. Labour's trousers are falling down. They've walked into a position all on their own because of the Scottish referendum and now they are there, they suddenly realise that they have walked into a trap that can really damage them.
He wasn't all bad, after all....
davepoth said:
If CMD did "pull a blinder" it was an incredible game of brinksmanship to put the entire UK at risk to secure his party's future. Has he been playing a game that long, using Salmond and Scotland as pawns for the whole term of the parliament in his Macciavellian scheme to ruin Labour? If he did, it'll be an epic memoir. But I think he lucked into it last week.
The early action that put this in motion and suggests planning rather than opportunistic was agreeing to a Scottish referendum, but insisting on a pure Yes/No and not allowing DevoMax as a third ballot choice.MrBarry123 said:
davepoth said:
If CMD did "pull a blinder" it was an incredible game of brinksmanship to put the entire UK at risk to secure his party's future. Has he been playing a game that long, using Salmond and Scotland as pawns for the whole term of the parliament in his Macciavellian scheme to ruin Labour? If he did, it'll be an epic memoir. But I think he lucked into it last week.
Luck isn't luck. It's the net result of practice and strategic planning."The harder I practice, the luckier I get."
All this Billy big bks talk of Cameron the political crafstman playing a crafty but high risk long game needs to be taken out of isolation and stood up alongside all the other blundering around he has exhibited.
He has done what career politicians so often do when things start to look a bit dodgy. Panic, knee jerk, wing it, if it all works out then spin furiously to make it appear as if planned. If it doesn't work out, spin furiously to grab whatever morsels appear vaguely positive and try and blame all the rest on the other side/EU / the press / the police / if all else fails organise a fall guy with a promise of a peerage.
Early days yet. Person who will come out of this looking the best will not be Cameron / Miliband. Imvho
ks talk of Cameron the political crafstman playing a crafty but high risk long game needs to be taken out of isolation and stood up alongside all the other blundering around he has exhibited. He has done what career politicians so often do when things start to look a bit dodgy. Panic, knee jerk, wing it, if it all works out then spin furiously to make it appear as if planned. If it doesn't work out, spin furiously to grab whatever morsels appear vaguely positive and try and blame all the rest on the other side/EU / the press / the police / if all else fails organise a fall guy with a promise of a peerage.
Early days yet. Person who will come out of this looking the best will not be Cameron / Miliband. Imvho
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff