Left wingers are getting a bit scared

[eccles]

FiF said:

All this Billy big bks talk of Cameron the political crafstman playing a crafty but high risk long game needs to be taken out of isolation and stood up alongside all the other blundering around he has exhibited.

He has done what career politicians so often do when things start to look a bit dodgy. Panic, knee jerk, wing it, if it all works out then spin furiously to make it appear as if planned. If it doesn't work out, spin furiously to grab whatever morsels appear vaguely positive and try and blame all the rest on the other side/EU / the press / the police / if all else fails organise a fall guy with a promise of a peerage.

Early days yet. Person who will come out of this looking the best will not be Cameron / Miliband. Imvho

Is there any appetite for regional assemblies in England? Every time they've been asked before, the answer has been no.
CMD can offer what he wants, but people may not actually want it and in this time of cuts and austerity and where politicians are pretty much viewed with contempt by anyone with half a brain do we really need a whole extra layer of pigs with their snouts in the trough?

[MarshPhantom]

Should the thread be titled Right wingers are getting a bit over excited.

Lib Dems will have to agree to all this as your boys couldn't even beat Winky.

Cameron played a blinder?

I really have heard it all.

[FiF]

eccles said:

FiF said:

All this Billy big bks talk of Cameron the political crafstman playing a crafty but high risk long game needs to be taken out of isolation and stood up alongside all the other blundering around he has exhibited.

He has done what career politicians so often do when things start to look a bit dodgy. Panic, knee jerk, wing it, if it all works out then spin furiously to make it appear as if planned. If it doesn't work out, spin furiously to grab whatever morsels appear vaguely positive and try and blame all the rest on the other side/EU / the press / the police / if all else fails organise a fall guy with a promise of a peerage.

Early days yet. Person who will come out of this looking the best will not be Cameron / Miliband. Imvho

Is there any appetite for regional assemblies in England? Every time they've been asked before, the answer has been no.
CMD can offer what he wants, but people may not actually want it and in this time of cuts and austerity and where politicians are pretty much viewed with contempt by anyone with half a brain do we really need a whole extra layer of pigs with their snouts in the trough?

Don't know tbh. I suspect there really is appetite for change amongst ordinary folks, though hardly any appetite amongst the troughers.

Couple a change to a more federal system sorting out the upper house? Fewer politicians, change doesn't HAVE to mean an extra layer or six.. In fact it positively mustn't mean that.

My base rule when I am king will be that putting each extra single politician post in place should only be allowed if another three posts are permanently removed. That rule can be modified of course but only to increase the number three to four or higher.

[Johnnytheboy]

MarshPhantom said:

Should the thread be titled Right wingers are getting a bit over excited.

Lib Dems will have to agree to all this as your boys couldn't even beat Winky.

Cameron played a blinder?

I really have heard it all.

It's nothing to do with current make up of the House of Commons.

This policy will be so popular in England that opposing it - less than a year before the next election - will be politically suicidal.

[turbobloke]

MarshPhantom said:

Should the thread be titled Right wingers are getting a bit over excited.

Lib Dems will have to agree to all this . . .

Not necessarily - if the Labour Party supports a package transferring additional powers i.e. the overall deal not just more power to the Scots, then the LibDems will be as irrelevant as they already are, but less irrelevant than they're about to become.

The article by Dan Hodges painted the outcome in question as a failure of Miliband and Winky, if CMD had it all mapped out and played a blinder then fine, if not then fine.

[Asterix]

FiF said:

Don't know tbh. I suspect there really is appetite for change amongst ordinary folks, though hardly any appetite amongst the troughers.

The ordinary folk, those that keep their heads down and work hard just to get by, probably hadn't fully realised the disparity between the various regions. Now the Scots have jumped up and been a bit shouty, it's been plastered all over the front pages so everyone is fully aware now.

[London424]

Asterix said:

FiF said:

Don't know tbh. I suspect there really is appetite for change amongst ordinary folks, though hardly any appetite amongst the troughers.

The ordinary folk, those that keep their heads down and work hard just to get by, probably hadn't fully realised the disparity between the various regions. Now the Scots have jumped up and been a bit shouty, it's been plastered all over the front pages so everyone is fully aware now.

And it also mean politicians can openly talk about it again...I get the feeling it was the dirty family secret that everyone just chose to ignore.

[Asterix]

London424 said:

Asterix said:

FiF said:

Don't know tbh. I suspect there really is appetite for change amongst ordinary folks, though hardly any appetite amongst the troughers.

The ordinary folk, those that keep their heads down and work hard just to get by, probably hadn't fully realised the disparity between the various regions. Now the Scots have jumped up and been a bit shouty, it's been plastered all over the front pages so everyone is fully aware now.

And it also mean politicians can openly talk about it again...I get the feeling it was the dirty family secret that everyone just chose to ignore.

Agreed - also the fact that, as has exactly happened, Labour wouldn't entertain losing the Scottish MPs. Their hand is forced now, they have to come up with a very compelling reason why Scottish MPs can vote on English matters while it's not possible the other way round - there isn't one and they know it.

[Megaflow]

Johnnytheboy said:

Steffan said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

If its by accident or design, CMD has just stitched Beaker up like a kipper.(but not in a UKIP sense.)

The more I see of Beaker, the more I'm sure he is a totally idiot. Brown was the worst PM we have ever had as far as policies and personality plus a few other things was concerned but at least he was a passionate speaker.

Unless its written down in front of him, Beaker seems to be totally incapable of making any kind of on the hoof remark without consulting with focus groups and advisors first. If the parties agree to the televised debates this time, CMD will run rings round him and Farage will just destroy him. If and its a big if, CMD has pulled a fast one then Beaker clearly was more than a bit dense not to see it coming.

But CMD can't rest on his laurels. He has a very delicate balancing act to carry out. And with the funds he is pledged to give to Scotland, if the English votes on English issues isn't carried forward, he has just given UKIP one hell of a big stick to beat him with.

Good post. The downside of the promises to Scotland impacting on the English being but one aspect. But Cameron does appear to now be in a position to mince the prospects of Labour. I wonder if he will?

Labour have two options in England:

1. Support English devolution and see themselves become unable to influence policy in those areas devolved.

2. Oppose English devolution and lose any electoral credibility in England.

Its looking a lot like that. Apparently there is an emergency Labour conference on this morning to try and come up with an official answer.

eccles said:

FiF said:

All this Billy big bks talk of Cameron the political crafstman playing a crafty but high risk long game needs to be taken out of isolation and stood up alongside all the other blundering around he has exhibited.

He has done what career politicians so often do when things start to look a bit dodgy. Panic, knee jerk, wing it, if it all works out then spin furiously to make it appear as if planned. If it doesn't work out, spin furiously to grab whatever morsels appear vaguely positive and try and blame all the rest on the other side/EU / the press / the police / if all else fails organise a fall guy with a promise of a peerage.

Early days yet. Person who will come out of this looking the best will not be Cameron / Miliband. Imvho

Is there any appetite for regional assemblies in England? Every time they've been asked before, the answer has been no.
CMD can offer what he wants, but people may not actually want it and in this time of cuts and austerity and where politicians are pretty much viewed with contempt by anyone with half a brain do we really need a whole extra layer of pigs with their snouts in the trough?

He hasn't offered regional assemblies though, what he is saying is if Scotland have more power in their own parliament, then those same MP must have less say in the UK parliament. Why should Scottish MP's be allowed to vote on matters which won't effect their constituency.

That is absolutely the right thing to do.

Edited by Megaflow on Saturday 20th September 10:16

[ATG]

grumbledoak said:

I rarely give politicians any credit, but if they have a talent it is more for seizing an opportunity than creating one, ...

Given how the general public's mood and views swing wildly and pretty irrationally in response to events, that is inevitable.

[steveT350C]

Hannan in the Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2763063/...

[Gaspode]

I quite like the idea of making the House of Commons into an English parliament, scrapping the House of Lords and replacing it with a Federal assembly.

[Troubleatmill]

Asterix said:

London424 said:

Asterix said:

FiF said:

Don't know tbh. I suspect there really is appetite for change amongst ordinary folks, though hardly any appetite amongst the troughers.

The ordinary folk, those that keep their heads down and work hard just to get by, probably hadn't fully realised the disparity between the various regions. Now the Scots have jumped up and been a bit shouty, it's been plastered all over the front pages so everyone is fully aware now.

And it also mean politicians can openly talk about it again...I get the feeling it was the dirty family secret that everyone just chose to ignore.

Agreed - also the fact that, as has exactly happened, Labour wouldn't entertain losing the Scottish MPs. Their hand is forced now, they have to come up with a very compelling reason why Scottish MPs can vote on English matters while it's not possible the other way round - there isn't one and they know it.

On Newsnight last night - Andrew O'Neil tore shreds out of a Labour MP on this issue. Asking him to name 3 Scottish Labour MSP's was brilliant TV too.
Do watch it on iPlayer. 21 Minutes 20 seconds in.

Edited by Troubleatmill on Saturday 20th September 10:42

[Asterix]

steveT350C said:

Hannan in the Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2763063/...

Funny - my first thought of where to home a newly created English Parliament was also Winchester.

Wouldn't happen though, if only for the reason it's far too 'South' in a number of ways.

[Megaflow]

Gaspode said:

I quite like the idea of making the House of Commons into an English parliament, scrapping the House of Lords and replacing it with a Federal assembly.

Me too, seems like a win-win to me.

[ralphrj]

Megaflow said:

Apparently there is an emergency Labour conference on this morning to try and come up with an official answer.

No doubt devolution will be discussed but it isn't an emergency conference. It is the annual conference booked months ago.

[Megaflow]

Ah, ok. It was on the radio while I was having tyres fitted to my wife's car, so was only half listening.

[johnxjsc1985]

Megaflow said:

Gaspode said:

I quite like the idea of making the House of Commons into an English parliament, scrapping the House of Lords and replacing it with a Federal assembly.

Me too, seems like a win-win to me.

It makes a great deal of sense....it will never happen

[rovermorris999]

Troubleatmill said:

On Newsnight last night - Andrew O'Neil tore shreds out of a Labour MP on this issue. Asking him to name 3 Scottish Labour MSP's was brilliant TV too.
Do watch it on iPlayer. 21 Minutes 20 seconds in.

Edited by Troubleatmill on Saturday 20th September 10:42

That was worth watching. Chuka Ummuna just would not answer a direct question about English MP-only votes on English laws. If they carry on like that they'll lose a lot of votes to UKIP.

[greygoose]

eccles said:

Is there any appetite for regional assemblies in England? Every time they've been asked before, the answer has been no.
CMD can offer what he wants, but people may not actually want it and in this time of cuts and austerity and where politicians are pretty much viewed with contempt by anyone with half a brain do we really need a whole extra layer of pigs with their snouts in the trough?

You do have to wonder, there already seem to be enough layers with parish councils, local councils, county councils, MPs and MEPs. I wouldn't want to see another layer of politicians in an English Assembly, fair enough if it is the English MPs in it without creating more.