Left wingers are getting a bit scared

[johnxjsc1985]

greygoose said:

You do have to wonder, there already seem to be enough layers with parish councils, local councils, county councils, MPs and MEPs. I wouldn't want to see another layer of politicians in an English Assembly, fair enough if it is the English MPs in it without creating more.

Often wondered how much all these Politicians cost us from Parish Council to MEP's and everything in between.

[mph1977]

so called said:

I would guess Labour must push for proportional representation ?

and get rid of the rotten boroughs in the Industrial North ?

there is a structural advantage to the Parliamentary labour party based on current constituency boundaries, they can secure more seats with fewer votes.

[rovermorris999]

I wouldn't want regional assemblies in England, parish councils writ large imho. But I would like to have an English parliament in Westminster using the existing MPs.

[johnxjsc1985]

rovermorris999 said:

I wouldn't want regional assemblies in England, parish councils writ large imho. But I would like to have an English parliament in Westminster using the existing MPs.

I agreed with you until the last bit.
I would like to see MP's with relevant experience of normal life i.e having a job a career outside of Parliament first. As for the House of Lords what connection with the real world do most of these people have.

[rovermorris999]

johnxjsc1985 said:

I agreed with you until the last bit.
I would like to see MP's with relevant experience of normal life i.e having a job a career outside of Parliament first. As for the House of Lords what connection with the real world do most of these people have.

That would be nice. Too many career politicos these days. Not so sure at the House of Lords though. There are many people with good experience in there (though I admit many are there for other reasons) and it's good to have people that act as a check on the Commons that aren't worried about re-election.

[grumbledoak]

rovermorris999 said:

it's good to have people that act as a check on the Commons that aren't worried about re-election.

Indeed. I see little point in a second house as focussed only on the next election as the Commons are.

[Gaspode]

rovermorris999 said:

That would be nice. Too many career politicos these days. Not so sure at the House of Lords though. There are many people with good experience in there (though I admit many are there for other reasons) and it's good to have people that act as a check on the Commons that aren't worried about re-election.

I certainly agree with the sentiment, but I'm wondering whether actually political skills are not necessarily honed outside the political environment? Whilst it would certainly be a good idea for MPs to have direct experience of life outside parliament, could it be that they's be more politically naive when elected - and so get stitched up when confronted with the more wily members? Engineers don't necessarily make good managers, and all that...

[rovermorris999]

Just reading 'The Prince' by Machiavelli would be adequate training for a politician.

[johnxjsc1985]

Gaspode said:

rovermorris999 said:

That would be nice. Too many career politicos these days. Not so sure at the House of Lords though. There are many people with good experience in there (though I admit many are there for other reasons) and it's good to have people that act as a check on the Commons that aren't worried about re-election.

I certainly agree with the sentiment, but I'm wondering whether actually political skills are not necessarily honed outside the political environment? Whilst it would certainly be a good idea for MPs to have direct experience of life outside parliament, could it be that they's be more politically naive when elected - and so get stitched up when confronted with the more wily members? Engineers don't necessarily make good managers, and all that...

look at the 3 party leaders and tell me what they have in terms of personal experience that makes them good leaders other than being able to manipulate people.

[CDP]

Megaflow said:

Gaspode said:

I quite like the idea of making the House of Commons into an English parliament, scrapping the House of Lords and replacing it with a Federal assembly.

Me too, seems like a win-win to me.

It's certainly got it's merits. The Lords have passed their sell by date. Still wondering what the possibilities of a Yorkshire v. NW parliament would be, war probably...

[CDP]

I can't help thinking it would be better if one of the houses (English or Federal) weren't in London. Possibly Liverpool or York?

[johnxjsc1985]

CDP said:

It's certainly got it's merits. The Lords have passed their sell by date. Still wondering what the possibilities of a Yorkshire v. NW parliament would be, war probably...

why not Liverpool Manchester Leeds and Hull that would be quite a size with a good diverse set of people and economies.The Midlands across to the east coast etc anything must be better than what we have at present. Anything that would get rid of Councillors and Mayors must be an improvement.

[Gaspode]

CDP said:

I can't help thinking it would be better if one of the houses (English or Federal) weren't in London. Possibly Liverpool or York?

Or Manchester? That has probably the best claim to be Britain's second city.

[CDP]

Gaspode said:

CDP said:

I can't help thinking it would be better if one of the houses (English or Federal) weren't in London. Possibly Liverpool or York?

Or Manchester? That has probably the best claim to be Britain's second city.

Possibly but with all the banking moving to the area and BBC Salford Quays project Manchester might end up as a London style bubble too. Which is exactly what we don't want...

[gpo746]

watched that Chuka Umunna with Andrew Neil last night.
completely fell apart when asked about it.

[RichB]

Gaspode said:

CDP said:

I can't help thinking it would be better if one of the houses (English or Federal) weren't in London. Possibly Liverpool or York?

Or Manchester? That has probably the best claim to be Britain's second city.

York would be a good shout but surely Birmingham is England's second city.

[CDP]

RichB said:

Gaspode said:

CDP said:

I can't help thinking it would be better if one of the houses (English or Federal) weren't in London. Possibly Liverpool or York?

Or Manchester? That has probably the best claim to be Britain's second city.

York would be a good shout but surely Birmingham is England's second city.

It's in the south(ish).

[Steffan]

gpo746 said:

watched that Chuka Umunna with Andrew Neil last night.
completely fell apart when asked about it.

Andrew Neil has a particularly direct approach to politicians in directing questions repeatedly until they actually answer the actual question rather than trying to stick to a pre written script from the Labour bullst department. Milliband being the worst offender. Chuka Umunna ( really rolls of the tongue) attempted that gambit and was Immediately called out by Neil who repeatedly pitched his questions. In the end Neil commented on the refusal to answer any questions he asked and CU looked the fool he is.

There really are no quick fire responders on the Labour team currently with the blustering tongue tied Balls, the pathetic ineffective Miliband and the ungracious Yvette Cooper all falling short on the good interviewee stakes. Without a script they cannot function. With a script they look like automatons. Indeed probably are automatons. Given the dreadful calibre of the opposition the coalition should be riding high. Regrettably tye coalition is not much better but they have grappled with our public expenditure over borrowing requirement and the economic situation of the UK is improving.

If the Tories can act effectively and make the electoral system in the UK fair for all the UK members them the unfair advantage to Labour gets permanently buried and hopefully so do the chances of Labour actually winning another general election. We can but hope.

[RichB]

CDP said:

RichB said:

Gaspode said:

CDP said:

I can't help thinking it would be better if one of the houses (English or Federal) weren't in London. Possibly Liverpool or York?

Or Manchester? That has probably the best claim to be Britain's second city.

York would be a good shout but surely Birmingham is England's second city.

It's in the south(ish).

not my point.

[CDP]

RichB said:

CDP said:

RichB said:

Gaspode said:

CDP said:

I can't help thinking it would be better if one of the houses (English or Federal) weren't in London. Possibly Liverpool or York?

Or Manchester? That has probably the best claim to be Britain's second city.

York would be a good shout but surely Birmingham is England's second city.

It's in the south(ish).

not my point.

True, Birmingham is probably as distant culturally from London as Manchester but if an English or Federal parliament are to be geographically separate they need to be far away from each other.