Disruptions in London today - climate march
Discussion
NDA said:
Negative Creep said:
Problem is that all the solutions seem to involve taxing people
Ping!And that's the nub of the matter.
Then again, everyone knows that politicians can micro-adjust a planetary thermostat using a couple of taxes
Anyone would think it was all about redistribution of wealth.
UN IPCC Official Ottmar Edenhofer said:
But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy...This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy any more
Roverload - there is a contradiction in the AGW position (mainly because they are morons).
CO2 is bad. Trees are good. But trees eat Co2 and need it to survive and thrive..............
Now, if the AGW lot were to concentrate on actual things that matter - pollution of rivers and deforestation and the slaughter of sharks and extinction of many species of animals, well, that might actually be worth fighting for (in fact I do fight for such things).
CO2 is bad. Trees are good. But trees eat Co2 and need it to survive and thrive..............
Now, if the AGW lot were to concentrate on actual things that matter - pollution of rivers and deforestation and the slaughter of sharks and extinction of many species of animals, well, that might actually be worth fighting for (in fact I do fight for such things).
scherzkeks said:
audidoody said:
DO you REALLY think "we" have the power to upset Nature?
You cannot be serious.Direct evidence for human impact on local climate exists, no evidence (data as opposed to gigo) for a causal human impact on global climate exists.
The carbon dioxide myth needs separating from real and meaningful considerations. This marching stunt was about the myth.
Jasandjules said:
Trees are good.
When they grow, they absorb CO2 to grow.When they die, they either rot or burn, releasing CO2 back into the system.
Over the life of a forest, the entire net contribution to the environment is zero.
I like having forests, but don't anyone kid themselves that it has a permanent effect on CO2.
Rovinghawk said:
When they grow, they absorb CO2 to grow.
When they die, they either rot or burn, releasing CO2 back into the system.
Over the life of a forest, the entire net contribution to the environment is zero.
Can you show us some proof of this. reason I ask is that I can't seem to find a survey or documentation that proves this point. One good thing about forests though - lot's of trees. Apart from it giving me ample choice of places to string up my wire traps, the roots will make it difficult for those pesky "ped" riders to negotiate round.When they die, they either rot or burn, releasing CO2 back into the system.
Over the life of a forest, the entire net contribution to the environment is zero.
I'm starting to like forests. When we going camping then mate ?
Rovinghawk said:
Jasandjules said:
Trees are good.
When they grow, they absorb CO2 to grow.When they die, they either rot or burn, releasing CO2 back into the system.
Over the life of a forest, the entire net contribution to the environment is zero.
I like having forests, but don't anyone kid themselves that it has a permanent effect on CO2.
gpo746 said:
Rovinghawk said:
When they grow, they absorb CO2 to grow.
When they die, they either rot or burn, releasing CO2 back into the system.
Over the life of a forest, the entire net contribution to the environment is zero.
Can you show us some proof of this. reason I ask is that I can't seem to find a survey or documentation that proves this point.When they die, they either rot or burn, releasing CO2 back into the system.
Over the life of a forest, the entire net contribution to the environment is zero.
http://today.duke.edu/2001/05/carbon.html
but there's plenty of lesser stuff such as this:
http://www.cortesisland.com/tideline/go824a/Wood_H...
gpo746 said:
When we going camping then mate ?
I'm going jungle trekking in 2 weeks' time if you'd like to come.Edited by Rovinghawk on Monday 22 September 10:50
Mr_B said:
Interesting. More on OSU's findings. http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2009/jul/fa...
Al Gore's inconvenient truth right there. You do the "math".
Edited by Hoofy on Monday 22 September 12:38
Viewpoint following the USA equivalent.
The Most Futile March Ever
It was the usual post-communist leftie march. That is, it was a petit-bourgeois re-enactment of meaningless ritual that passes for serious politics among those too inexperienced, too emotionally excited or too poorly read and too unpracticed at self-reflection or political analysis to know or perhaps care how futile and tired the conventional march has become.
Crazed grouplets of anti-capitalist movements trying to fan the embers of Marxism back to life, gender and transgender groups with their own spin on climate, earnest eco-warriors, publicity-seeking hucksters, adrenalin junkies, college kids wanting a taste of the venerable tradition of public protest, and, as always, a great many people who don’t think that burning marijuana adds to the world’s CO2 load, marched down Manhattan’s streets.
Street marches today are to real politics what street mime is to Shakespeare. This was an ersatz event: no laws will change, no political balance will tip, no UN delegate will have a change of heart. The world will roll on as if this march had never happened. And the marchers would have emitted less carbon and done more good for the world if they had all stayed home and studied books on economics, politics, science, religion and law. Marches like this create an illusion of politics and an illusion of meaningful activity to fill the void of postmodern life; the tribal ritual matters more than the political result.
Walter Russell Mead, The American Interest, 21 September 2014
Tens of thousands of environmental protestors paraded through New York City on Sunday, in a “people’s climate march” designed to lobby world leaders arriving for the latest United Nations climate summit. The march did succeed in messing up traffic, but President Obama won’t achieve much more when he speaks Tuesday at this latest pit stop on the global warming grand prix.
The Wall Street Journal, 21 September 2014
The Most Futile March Ever
It was the usual post-communist leftie march. That is, it was a petit-bourgeois re-enactment of meaningless ritual that passes for serious politics among those too inexperienced, too emotionally excited or too poorly read and too unpracticed at self-reflection or political analysis to know or perhaps care how futile and tired the conventional march has become.
Crazed grouplets of anti-capitalist movements trying to fan the embers of Marxism back to life, gender and transgender groups with their own spin on climate, earnest eco-warriors, publicity-seeking hucksters, adrenalin junkies, college kids wanting a taste of the venerable tradition of public protest, and, as always, a great many people who don’t think that burning marijuana adds to the world’s CO2 load, marched down Manhattan’s streets.
Street marches today are to real politics what street mime is to Shakespeare. This was an ersatz event: no laws will change, no political balance will tip, no UN delegate will have a change of heart. The world will roll on as if this march had never happened. And the marchers would have emitted less carbon and done more good for the world if they had all stayed home and studied books on economics, politics, science, religion and law. Marches like this create an illusion of politics and an illusion of meaningful activity to fill the void of postmodern life; the tribal ritual matters more than the political result.
Walter Russell Mead, The American Interest, 21 September 2014
Tens of thousands of environmental protestors paraded through New York City on Sunday, in a “people’s climate march” designed to lobby world leaders arriving for the latest United Nations climate summit. The march did succeed in messing up traffic, but President Obama won’t achieve much more when he speaks Tuesday at this latest pit stop on the global warming grand prix.
The Wall Street Journal, 21 September 2014
Wow, alot of you really are massive 
s! Go on then, point me in the direction of beechy head, how could you say such a thing. You may think my politics is born out of hate for my fellow man, i love mankind, we are capable of the most incredible things. But the vast majority choose comfort and ignorance over what is right, i don't care if its emissions, sewerage, ocean dumping, chemical spills, its all having a negative effect on the way we live our lives. I know how i want to live my life, if everyone banded together we could all live a comfortable life, but instead we choose complacency. I'm not going to post anymore on this subject, i don't owe any of you head in the sand wkers an explanation.
s! Go on then, point me in the direction of beechy head, how could you say such a thing. You may think my politics is born out of hate for my fellow man, i love mankind, we are capable of the most incredible things. But the vast majority choose comfort and ignorance over what is right, i don't care if its emissions, sewerage, ocean dumping, chemical spills, its all having a negative effect on the way we live our lives. I know how i want to live my life, if everyone banded together we could all live a comfortable life, but instead we choose complacency. I'm not going to post anymore on this subject, i don't owe any of you head in the sand wkers an explanation. Like I said, greens offer no solutions and demand everyone goes back to some mythical agrarian utopia, overlooking that agrarian societies are mostly grinding poverty, disease and premature death. fk them; there are technological means to solve this problem but they don't want to solve it because they're selfish s.
k them; there are technological means to solve this problem but they don't want to solve it because they're selfish s.Roverload said:
I don't care if its emissions, sewerage, ocean dumping, chemical spills, its all having a negative effect on the way we live our lives.
Emissions of harmful substances - agreed so let's get cracking on any remaining 3-NBA and 1,8-DNP, the two most carcinogenic chemicals known to science, found in public transport emissions i.e. stop-go buses and trains with large diesel engines.Dumping, in the oceans or elsewhere, agreed again, particularly heavy metal pollutants.
Carbon dioxide, an essential trace gas doing little more than feeding trees and crops - forget it. Wasting so much money on junkscience is a travesty.
hidetheelephants said:
Like I said, greens offer no solutions and demand everyone goes back to some mythical agrarian utopia, overlooking that agrarian societies are mostly grinding poverty, disease and premature death. fk them; there are technological means to solve this problem but they don't want to solve it because they're selfish s.
Yes albeit no solutions are being offered to real problems, as well as no solution to the phoney tax gas scam (not that we need one). The lack of progress on real problems is due in large part to a politically motivated narrow focus on the scam.k them; there are technological means to solve this problem but they don't want to solve it because they're selfish s.Dr Patrick Moore Co-founder Member of Greenpeace in May 2000 said:
We have an environmental movement that is run by people who want to fight, not to win.
Dr Moore also said:
There were always extreme, irrational and mystical elements within our movement, but they tended to be kept in their place during the early years. Then in the mid-Eighties the ultraleftists and extremists took over. After Greenham Common closed and the Berlin Wall came down these extremists were searching for a new cause and found it in environmentalism. The old agendas of class struggle and anti-corporatism are still there but now they are dressed up in environmental terminology.
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