Scandinavian societies

[Finlandia]

sneijder said:

Finlandia, where would you rather live ?

I'm odd like that, but I really like UK

[sneijder]

Finlandia said:

I'm odd like that, but I really like UK

Understood, I can last a few days there until the nostalgia wears off.

I do really miss the 'scale' of things at times in the UK, cities, shops, choice if you get what I mean ? Do prefer it up here, I have a 5 year old (Norwegian born) daughter so I think that makes a huge difference, I'd frankly not like to bring her up in the UK if the choice ever needed to be made.

[Stevanos]

That is interesting to me, we are considering starting a family here in Sweden and it is a tough choice. But to me, raising a child here seems like it would be easier and better for them

[Finlandia]

sneijder said:

Understood, I can last a few days there until the nostalgia wears off.

I do really miss the 'scale' of things at times in the UK, cities, shops, choice if you get what I mean ? Do prefer it up here, I have a 5 year old (Norwegian born) daughter so I think that makes a huge difference, I'd frankly not like to bring her up in the UK if the choice ever needed to be made.

That is one thing I like about the UK, the endless choice of things to do, see and experience, I also much prefer the UK way of life and people. Being half Finnish and half Swedish I have nothing really in common with the people in Sweden, a bit more with Norwegians, Danes and Finns, but where I really feel at home is in the UK.

The Swedish bragging/propaganda "we are world leaders in... we are best in the world at... Sweden is the best of all countries when it comes to... " gets pretty tiring very quick, then you look out your window and notice the roads haven't been cleared of snow for three days.

Stevanos said:

That is interesting to me, we are considering starting a family here in Sweden and it is a tough choice. But to me, raising a child here seems like it would be easier and better for them

There are good things about bringing kids up here, outdoors life and vast areas to play, but be very picky when choosing a school for them when that time comes.

[Stevanos]

I am starting to wonder whether there is so much internal difference here in Sweden, I just don't see the same problems you are having. I am not saying they don't exist where you are, but my expereince just outside Gothenburg seems to be the polar opposite. Snow is cleared away within hours! Plus all the other points you and I have remarked about.

I went down to Karlskrona and some of the areas of town down there resembled more like a communist Russia.

I guess it is the same the World over, each country has great places and bad places. I guess I'm lucky landing in this spot.

[Finlandia]

But then I don't get shot at in Västerås (in Stockholm I might though), as you get in Gothenburg, even if there seem to be a cease fire at the moment

If you want to see a bad neighbourhood, visit Rinkeby, Tensta, Husby, Norsborg, Rosengård, or the very own Bäckby here in Västerås. The past time here seems to be torching cars, for over a year now there have been two or three car fires a night. Not long ago a shopping trolley was set on fire and blocked a bus route, when the bus stopped it was pelted with rocks. Fire crew have rocks thrown at them on a regular basis.

All while we are force fed the mantra of how excellent Sweden is and how proud we should be to live here.

[jshell]

sneijder said:

Finlandia said:

I'm odd like that, but I really like UK

Understood, I can last a few days there until the nostalgia wears off.

I do really miss the 'scale' of things at times in the UK, cities, shops, choice if you get what I mean ? Do prefer it up here, I have a 5 year old (Norwegian born) daughter so I think that makes a huge difference, I'd frankly not like to bring her up in the UK if the choice ever needed to be made.

We've done the opposite and moved our 3 yr old back to the UK to take part in the better UK school system. She is also ill less now and gets to attend and partake in many, many more activities than she could in Norway. In addition, the health system in Norway is actually pretty woeful.

[Foppo]

jshell said:

sneijder said:

Finlandia said:

I'm odd like that, but I really like UK

Understood, I can last a few days there until the nostalgia wears off.

I do really miss the 'scale' of things at times in the UK, cities, shops, choice if you get what I mean ? Do prefer it up here, I have a 5 year old (Norwegian born) daughter so I think that makes a huge difference, I'd frankly not like to bring her up in the UK if the choice ever needed to be made.

We've done the opposite and moved our 3 yr old back to the UK to take part in the better UK school system. She is also ill less now and gets to attend and partake in many, many more activities than she could in Norway. In addition, the health system in Norway is actually pretty woeful.

Surprised to hear about the health system in Norway being poor.

Do you mean waiting times the actual care or what?

[BillPeart]

Finlandia said:

But then I don't get shot at in Västerås (in Stockholm I might though), as you get in Gothenburg, even if there seem to be a cease fire at the moment

If you want to see a bad neighbourhood, visit Rinkeby, Tensta, Husby, Norsborg, Rosengård, or the very own Bäckby here in Västerås. The past time here seems to be torching cars, for over a year now there have been two or three car fires a night. Not long ago a shopping trolley was set on fire and blocked a bus route, when the bus stopped it was pelted with rocks. Fire crew have rocks thrown at them on a regular basis.

All while we are force fed the mantra of how excellent Sweden is and how proud we should be to live here.

From Wikipedia, for speed:

Rinkeby is a district in Rinkeby-Kista borough, Stockholm, Sweden. Rinkeby had 15,051 inhabitants in 2007. Rinkeby is noted for its high concentration of immigrants and people with immigrant ancestry.


Tensta has a large concentration of immigrants, high rates of unemployed and people on social welfare.[3] The open unemployment rate is 43.5% (2009) and the rate of people on social welfare is 40.2% (1999). In 1999 the employment rate was 44%.[3] Immigrants make up 66% of the population and 95%-100% of the children in local schools are of foreign origin.[3]


Today, Husby has a large population of immigrants, mostly from Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Somalia.[3] 81.9% of the inhabitants have a first- or second-generation foreign background as of December 31, 2007.[2]


Rosengård was built between 1967 and 1972 as a part of the Million Programme. In 1972, the percentage of immigrants leveled around 20% In 2012, the figure for those of "immigrant background" was given as 86%.[5


Think we might be on to something here? Lest people think the Swedes are less civilised than they might have thought. Victims of their (govt's) pc, left leaning open doors policy.

[Mojocvh]

loafer123 said:

Not much that xjflyer writes makes sense.

No point trying to square that circle.

You think you've got problems, I was taught today that the fire triangle is now a square.

[jshell]

Foppo said:

jshell said:

sneijder said:

Finlandia said:

I'm odd like that, but I really like UK

Understood, I can last a few days there until the nostalgia wears off.

I do really miss the 'scale' of things at times in the UK, cities, shops, choice if you get what I mean ? Do prefer it up here, I have a 5 year old (Norwegian born) daughter so I think that makes a huge difference, I'd frankly not like to bring her up in the UK if the choice ever needed to be made.

We've done the opposite and moved our 3 yr old back to the UK to take part in the better UK school system. She is also ill less now and gets to attend and partake in many, many more activities than she could in Norway. In addition, the health system in Norway is actually pretty woeful.

Surprised to hear about the health system in Norway being poor.

Do you mean waiting times the actual care or what?

Getting to a GP is easy, pay £20ish and get seen same/next day, but when I went with a prolapsed disc I was given some crap painkillers and asked 'so, you want signed off work?' They failed to diagnose either me or a colleague having a gallstone attack - that was the main hospital A&E. There's a scandal going on right now over thousands of needless knee operations each year with 4 out of 5 people having no beneficial outcomes. Coupled with Norway coming no. 11 in a recent league table after the dear old NHS at no.1.

For my prolapsed disc and gallstone issue I bailed out and headed back to the UK.

Also, you cannot buy the over the counter medecines that we take for granted in the UK. No baby nurofen or calpol for kids either and there are colds and flu sweeping through Norway each year.

They have the highest proportion of workers on long term sick leave in the civilised world.

[sneijder]

We live in Akershus, outside of Oslo.

We have a huge university hospital on our doorstep, I've been in worse hotels to be honest.

My daughter is in her last year of Kindergarden now, to be honest I haven't got a clue how much it costs but it's the square root of nowt. I have cousins on avarage wage in the UK who have a massive chunk of their income disappear to leave their kids on a playgroup.

I make a packed lunch Mondays and Tuesdays, she's fed the rest of the week. Ski lessons, Music lessons, Skøgstur at least once a week, she has it better than I did.

Yes the roads are a bit tat out in the sticks, but there's lots of them for a small population, temp goes from plus to minus thirty year round so they're bound to be a bit iffy.

[Randy Winkman]

sneijder said:

My daughter is in her last year of Kindergarden now, to be honest I haven't got a clue how much it costs but it's the square root of nowt. I have cousins on avarage wage in the UK who have a massive chunk of their income disappear to leave their kids on a playgroup.

OK, I guess it might have changed now, but my bother lives in Stockholm and it was the same for his kids when they were small (they are now teenagers). It really did cost practically nothing.

[Foppo]

Our granddaughter is looked after by a Reg Childcarer.Three days a week seventy five pounds.We look after her two days a week.I think the council pays towards the cost.

Regarding healthcare in Europe which is in most cases is similar. There are positive and negative stories whichever country you live in.

Sometimes it can be the luck of the draw.

[pugfan]

Stevanos said:

I went down to Karlskrona and some of the areas of town down there resembled more like a communist Russia.

I guess it is the same the World over, each country has great places and bad places. I guess I'm lucky landing in this spot.

I lived in Karlskrona for 5 months doing the Erasmus programme with uni. I think I know exactly which parts you are referring to!

On the whole I really liked my time spent in Scandinavia (Sweden and a bit of adventuring in Copenhagen), except for Malmo which I thought was an utter toilet. There were periods of time, however, where my flatmate and I did find there was nothing to do besides going to university during the week and partying with the other international students during the weekend, I guess that the first part was essentially why we were there anyway.

I did find the public transport to be absolutely spot on, besides the lack of buses later on in the night except for Friday and Saturday nights which really wasn't a massive issue as the town seemed to shut down in accordance with the bus times anyway . A few things that struck me about the place were that when the traffic lights were broken at a cross roads everyone seemed to just get on with it and wait in turn to get through, something I do doubt would happen in the UK, and the drivers were all incredibly slow. Most cars seemed to leak oil going by the stains in the car parks and studded tyres were the norm in completely non snowy weather, I guess this was legislation of some sort.

Genuinely I loved my time there and with some minor exceptions the people were friendly once you got them talking. I do not, however, see Sweden as the eco green country I once did. Still preferred Copenhagen to Stockholm too.

[sneijder]

Driving in Norway is quite civilized, folk will allow traffic to 'zipper' when lanes merge, however the root cause of all traffic jams I see in Oslo is not entirely volume of traffic but a complete failure to indicate when using a roundabout. Traffic waits as they're unsure where the roundabout user will exit.

Studded tyres are a bit anti social now, the air is dead still at times. In cities the studs rip up Tarmac and cause dust which just hangs in the air, it's a problem in tunnels. Ice tyre technology has come so far that spikes are becoming redundant now, especially as they attract extra tax to discourage.

This is excellent in winter : http://www.skiforeningen.no/marka/loyper/lys/ miles and miles of cross country ski tracks criss crossing the forests a stones throw away. Last winter was rubbish though, not half as much snow, and no snow in winter.

[NicD]

They have made some cracking thrillers to lift our TV schedules, The Bridge was stand out!

[BillPeart]

NicD said:

They have made some cracking thrillers to lift our TV schedules, The Bridge was stand out!

Don't forget Borgen!

[Finlandia]

There are good things about Scandinavia, but it's not the Shangri-La it's portrayed as, and I can't see it getting any better in the years to come because politicians seem to turn a blind eye.

In Sweden the segregation is a big problem (us and them mentality), right and left wingers are fighting in the streets, the suburbs are rioting, heavy criminality is rife (shootings in the streets nearly on a daily basis), we pay one of the highest taxes in the world yet we have all these domestic problems and many more uncounted for.

Oh, and apparently the trains between Gothenburg and Malmö are at a standstill due to power cuts. Bäst kusten, hah

[BillPeart]

Would you say that the criminality is mainly, or as much, the Swedes, as the incomers? So, the Swedes less law abiding, 'controlled' and civilised as their reputation once had it? With A Swedish sister in law and nieces I find the changes very sad.