Scandinavian societies
Discussion
To avoid derailing the "what car" topic any further;
XJ Flyer said:
Norway might have some 'issues',related to certain types of socialist tendencies like its attitude towards freedom related to car use.But having long ago decided to do what the Scottish didn't have the bottle to do and staying well out of the EU,collectivism/federalism obviously certainly isn't one of those 'issues'.
You misunderstand what I mean by collectivism - I mean it as the opposite of individualism, the belief that what is better for the community is more important than what better for the individualism. I don't think you can divorce that from a tendency towards societies with a high degree of socialisation of services and provision of social welfare. It's really nothing to do with European federalism except in so much that the European project has some similar ideals. Your views on the relationship between the individual and wider society are really incompatible with your view on the desirability of the Norwegian model.Which is a fair point Jasandjules that is what we all subscribe to.It is also important that people will take responsibility for their actions. Don't do to others what you don't like done to yourself.Which society is better or worse I don't know.I would think people living in N/Korea aren't happy with their lot except the few.
Stevanos said:
Finlandia said:
Lost the election and has now resigned together with Fredrik.
Watch the economic downfall of Sweden over the next few years.Finlandia said:
I think the economy of Sweden was always a bit polished, don't get me wrong it's not as if we are poor here, but the economic aim has always been for the state to do well, not the individual, and that is why the recent election went the way it did.
Maybe, plus the parties playing on peoples fears on immigration. otolith said:
I mean it as the opposite of individualism, the belief that what is better for the community is more important than what better for the individualism.
My wife finds this aspect of our society hard to understand. She's Swedish from a family that's fairly right-leaning politically but the collective approach is ingrained in her and all the Swedes I know. If the US is the ultimate in selfish society and Scandinavia the other end then we're somewhere in the middle and moving to a more selfish way of being isn't good for anyone in the long run.Stevanos said:
Finlandia said:
I think the economy of Sweden was always a bit polished, don't get me wrong it's not as if we are poor here, but the economic aim has always been for the state to do well, not the individual, and that is why the recent election went the way it did.
Maybe, plus the parties playing on peoples fears on immigration. Meanwhile, the health care is on its knees, the care for the elderly is a undignifying mess, the infrastructure is near to collapse, the segregation grows everyday, riots are getting commonplace.
Now lets see what a new government can do, not much is my guess.
Finlandia said:
Immigration is a good thing when it's controlled, but to open the floodgates puts a strain on society, and as Fredrik said in his summer speech "I urge the people of Sweden to open up your hearts for the refugees, it will cost money, and this is why we as the sitting government can not promise any economic growth".
Meanwhile, the health care is on its knees, the care for the elderly is a undignifying mess, the infrastructure is near to collapse, the segregation grows everyday, riots are getting commonplace.
Now lets see what a new government can do, not much is my guess.
Can't speak for most of those things but infrastructure is very solid in Sweden. Meanwhile, the health care is on its knees, the care for the elderly is a undignifying mess, the infrastructure is near to collapse, the segregation grows everyday, riots are getting commonplace.
Now lets see what a new government can do, not much is my guess.
It's a weather thing.
I've lived and worked in some very cold places and people are naturally more collective, not to preserve heat, but it's just necessary in colder, harsher environments to draw support from wider societal resources. The warmer you get the more individual people become.
I've lived and worked in some very cold places and people are naturally more collective, not to preserve heat, but it's just necessary in colder, harsher environments to draw support from wider societal resources. The warmer you get the more individual people become.
Whilst looking at other nations and taking cues from certain aspects of governance and society is a good thing, what one cannot do is compare one country with another and determine "this is what we need to be like' as so many factor impact on how a country operates many of which cannot be managed. The ultimate conclusion of that approach would be an entire planet with a single country, culture and society.
Stevanos said:
Finlandia said:
Immigration is a good thing when it's controlled, but to open the floodgates puts a strain on society, and as Fredrik said in his summer speech "I urge the people of Sweden to open up your hearts for the refugees, it will cost money, and this is why we as the sitting government can not promise any economic growth".
Meanwhile, the health care is on its knees, the care for the elderly is a undignifying mess, the infrastructure is near to collapse, the segregation grows everyday, riots are getting commonplace.
Now lets see what a new government can do, not much is my guess.
Can't speak for most of those things but infrastructure is very solid in Sweden. Meanwhile, the health care is on its knees, the care for the elderly is a undignifying mess, the infrastructure is near to collapse, the segregation grows everyday, riots are getting commonplace.
Now lets see what a new government can do, not much is my guess.
But can relate to and agree with much of what Finlandia posts above.
FiF said:
Stevanos said:
Finlandia said:
Immigration is a good thing when it's controlled, but to open the floodgates puts a strain on society, and as Fredrik said in his summer speech "I urge the people of Sweden to open up your hearts for the refugees, it will cost money, and this is why we as the sitting government can not promise any economic growth".
Meanwhile, the health care is on its knees, the care for the elderly is a undignifying mess, the infrastructure is near to collapse, the segregation grows everyday, riots are getting commonplace.
Now lets see what a new government can do, not much is my guess.
Can't speak for most of those things but infrastructure is very solid in Sweden. Meanwhile, the health care is on its knees, the care for the elderly is a undignifying mess, the infrastructure is near to collapse, the segregation grows everyday, riots are getting commonplace.
Now lets see what a new government can do, not much is my guess.
But can relate to and agree with much of what Finlandia posts above.
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