NHS Strikes

[Chicken]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29343090

UNISON is the first union to announce, but I expect Unite and the others to come out soon.
I work frontline in the NHS, and I don't know how I feel about this.
On one hand, I'm massively underpaid for the job I do, so when the last set of pay 'rises' was announced it was rather galling to learn that MPs had been offered such a huge rise.
On the other hand, I don't like bully boy techniques, and I do worry about the effect this will have on patients.

I know PH is a capitalist hot bed, so I'm expecting to be shot to pieces, but I think I will probably strike (if it gets that far)

[crankedup]

The only bully boy involved is the Tory led Government. It is their mantra to make every attempt to keep ordinary hard working decent people struggle in daily life. They rely upon the good will of service industries to do the right thing for those that they serve.

[steveT350C]

Chicken said:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29343090

UNISON is the first union to announce, but I expect Unite and the others to come out soon.
I work frontline in the NHS, and I don't know how I feel about this.
On one hand, I'm massively underpaid for the job I do, so when the last set of pay 'rises' was announced it was rather galling to learn that MPs had been offered such a huge rise.
On the other hand, I don't like bully boy techniques, and I do worry about the effect this will have on patients.

I know PH is a capitalist hot bed, so I'm expecting to be shot to pieces, but I think I will probably strike (if it gets that far)

Hi James,

Maybe you could elaborate on the actual job you do, and how much you get paid,holidays, paid sick days and other benefits you get etc. This may sound harsh but will put things into context for all the powerfully built company directors on PH who generate all the tax revenues that ultimately pay your wages.

[MG CHRIS]

I feel im under paid for my job I do specially with the amount of tools I got to buy to keep me in that job.

I don't feel the need to go on strike just because someone else is having a pay rise I work harder or find other ways of getting money.
Why is it that some in the public sector (not you specificly) and union think its there god dam right to be offered pay rise on top of pay rise, they keep saying well we need them as we haven't had one for 2 years etc. What about the rest of the country that hasn't had one for even longer you don't see us on strike every few months.

[rxtx]

crankedup said:

The only bully boy involved is the Tory led Government. It is their mantra to make every attempt to keep ordinary hard working decent people struggle in daily life. They rely upon the good will of service industries to do the right thing for those that they serve.

What a load of crap.

[ellroy]

I'm sorry, but I just don't get it, there have been no 'cuts' in the NHS, in the wider perspective there has been a slowing of the increase in spending, but again no overall cuts, certainly not to the levels we end to get a balanced budget and a reduction in the national debt. Note I said debt,not defecit.

I understand that people in the public sector have not had as good a pay increase as they're use to, but hell I've not had a salary increase in 6 years, and that was the first one in more than a decade. Nor do I have a copper bottomed guaranteed pension worth significant sums of money thanks to the rest of tax paying members of society.

MPs getting larger pay rises? Yes, it does leave a bad taste, but frankly I'd put it up to around £100k, link it to an independent body and get rid of all the spurious allowances that they all seem to think is free money.

Sorry OP, but this country needs to sort things out and you've at least had a raise. It's more than I, or most of the private sector got.

Edited by ellroy on Wednesday 24th September 22:24

[anonymous-user]

Well you could move to the private sector, you know the government is tight with money so change jobs. Only way to do it.

You say you are under paid, what are you comparing with?

[mph1977]

the majori problem in the minds of many in the NHS, even those who are politically moderate and support much of the reform is the way in which Incremental pay is treated as a cost rather than a saving

http://www.rcn.org.uk/support/pay_and_conditions/p...

there are 6- 9 increments in a band ( other than the rarely used band 1 with just 3 increments) under AfC, moving between bands requires a established post and a recruitment process unless, like midwives and some pharmacists there is a agreed progression pathway which is competencies based.


" the rate for the job" is the the upper gateway point of the Band a job is evaluated into. this is ' the rate for the job' as the upper gateway is cleared by completion of the full set of competencies for a role in the knowledge and skills framework.

for the 'ordinary' Staff Nurse on band 5 , to get through that upper gateway they will have undertaken at least one if not in every likelihood 2 or even more further Degree or Master's level courses ( 'top up' to degree from DipHE - for those who qualified before hte relatively recent change to all degree pre-reg, a speciality related course and/or the 'supporting learners in practice' course which is the course required to be able to sign off Student practice placement outcomes ( it;s not dissimialr to the PTTLS course except it's run at levels 6 and 7 rather 3 and 4).

to pass through the upper gateway you would also have been expected to develope speciality specific skills and be able ot take charge of running a shift.

arguably there is room to strip out some increments , prime targets would be one fro mthe middle of bands 5-7 and one of either the top or penultimate points which are after the upper KSF gateway.

contrary to the assertions made by some, NHS staff do not recieve ' 2 pay rises a year' for a Nurse, Paramedic, ODP , Physio or OT beginnign their career they will recieve , if their performanceis in line with acceptable standards increment al progression to the top of band 5 in 7 /8 years depending if the first increment is accelerated by completion of preceptorship outcomes in under 6 months , to continue to recieve incremental pay rises after that point they would have to apply and get a band 6 post where the same process continues ( no accelerated increments in band 6) beyond band 6 the pyramid narrows considerably ... in theory it is possible to get incremental progression for many yars but generally this is confined to brown nosed expert fellatrixs of climb the greasy pole by massging the ego (and other parts) of those managing them OR exceptional clinicians who fall lucky with access to higher studfy


http://www.rcn.org.uk/support/pay_and_conditions/a...

[NoNeed]

Chicken said:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29343090

UNISON is the first union to announce, but I expect Unite and the others to come out soon.
I work frontline in the NHS, and I don't know how I feel about this.
On one hand, I'm massively underpaid for the job I do, so when the last set of pay 'rises' was announced it was rather galling to learn that MPs had been offered such a huge rise.
On the other hand, I don't like bully boy techniques, and I do worry about the effect this will have on patients.

I know PH is a capitalist hot bed, so I'm expecting to be shot to pieces, but I think I will probably strike (if it gets that far)

What have MP's been offered? by whom and when?

[mph1977]

NoNeed said:

Chicken said:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29343090

UNISON is the first union to announce, but I expect Unite and the others to come out soon.
I work frontline in the NHS, and I don't know how I feel about this.
On one hand, I'm massively underpaid for the job I do, so when the last set of pay 'rises' was announced it was rather galling to learn that MPs had been offered such a huge rise.
On the other hand, I don't like bully boy techniques, and I do worry about the effect this will have on patients.

I know PH is a capitalist hot bed, so I'm expecting to be shot to pieces, but I think I will probably strike (if it gets that far)

What have MP's been offered? by whom and when?

MPs 9-11% , they set their own pay rises, for 2014-15 ,

Where NHS staff have been offered 1% not aggregated if they are onthe top increment of a band and no pay rise if they are not in the top increment of their band, although they have deigned to permit incremental progression ( reverse of what the BiB hadve had for the last couple of years with cincremental freeze and less than inflation cost of living rises)

[NailedOn]

ISIS are asking for it. They deserve what's heading their way.

[mrmr96]

NoNeed said:

Chicken said:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29343090

UNISON is the first union to announce, but I expect Unite and the others to come out soon.
I work frontline in the NHS, and I don't know how I feel about this.
On one hand, I'm massively underpaid for the job I do, so when the last set of pay 'rises' was announced it was rather galling to learn that MPs had been offered such a huge rise.
On the other hand, I don't like bully boy techniques, and I do worry about the effect this will have on patients.

I know PH is a capitalist hot bed, so I'm expecting to be shot to pieces, but I think I will probably strike (if it gets that far)

What have MP's been offered? by whom and when?

"MPs are currently paid £67,060, which will rise by one per cent to £67,731 next April. Under Ipsa’s plans that would leap to £74,000 for MPs elected at the general election in the following month."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-...

[ucb]

I hope the NHS workers do strike.

The politicians treatment of the NHS is disgusting

[mph1977]

steveT350C said:

Chicken said:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29343090

UNISON is the first union to announce, but I expect Unite and the others to come out soon.
I work frontline in the NHS, and I don't know how I feel about this.
On one hand, I'm massively underpaid for the job I do, so when the last set of pay 'rises' was announced it was rather galling to learn that MPs had been offered such a huge rise.
On the other hand, I don't like bully boy techniques, and I do worry about the effect this will have on patients.

I know PH is a capitalist hot bed, so I'm expecting to be shot to pieces, but I think I will probably strike (if it gets that far)

Hi James,

Maybe you could elaborate on the actual job you do, and how much you get paid,holidays, paid sick days and other benefits you get etc. This may sound harsh but will put things into context for all the powerfully built company directors on PH who generate all the tax revenues that ultimately pay your wages.

Nurses, Physios and OTs are now all graduate only entry , as are Midwives and Pharmacists

Paramedics and ODPs can enter with a foundation degree / DipHE for the moment ( these represent 2/3rds of a degree)

in my previous post in this topic I linked to the 2014-15 pay scales

for bands 5-7 which covers the majority of none Medical HCP roles , Nights and saturdays attract a 30 % loading and Sundays / bank holidays attract 60 %

In acute hospitals and community settings You are paid for the planned length of shift , ambulance service road staff are paid over time if their shift runs overIF they aren;t going to have ot take compensatory time off the next day to allow for the 11 hour daily rest required by the EWTD. In many trustsd overtime is banned and any extra shifts are worked for the underlying plain rate on an additional bank contract. IUt is enitrely routine to do up to an houer of unpaid and un recognised work each day to complete mandatory documentation. Most Mandatory training is undertaken unpaid in your own time, many other training opportunities deemed essential or highly desirable to the service are undertaken in your own time with limited funding support from employers.

NHS standard annual leave terms are 27 + 8 days on entry , with additional 2 days at 5 and 10 years of service .

sick pay is as standard 1 month full pay and one month half pay, rising over the first five years of service to 6 months full and 6 months half

resetting your sick pay after prolonged absence requires up to a year with out absence
Attendnace management polices are increasingly used within the NHS and people are routinely sanctioned up to dismissal for having excessive absence ( usually based on number of episodes or bradford score type calculations - which creates some perverse incentives to stay off work !, as you can't 'link' periods of absence ), even if this is due to a protected characteristic under the disability disrcimination provisions of the equality act.

[Sheepshanks]

mph1977 said:

...for the 'ordinary' Staff Nurse on band 5 , to get through that upper gateway they will have undertaken at least one if not in every likelihood 2 or even more further Degree or Master's level courses ( 'top up' to degree from DipHE - for those who qualified before hte relatively recent change to all degree pre-reg, a speciality related course and/or the 'supporting learners in practice' course which is the course required to be able to sign off Student practice placement outcomes ( it;s not dissimialr to the PTTLS course except it's run at levels 6 and 7 rather 3 and 4).

to pass through the upper gateway you would also have been expected to develope speciality specific skills and be able ot take charge of running a shift.

The over-training of nurses strikes me as ridiculous.

My daughter works in the NHS (although she's employed by a private company since her department was out-sourced) and has fragile peoples' minds in her hands every day for £30K/yr (and it's taken her 10yrs, including a science based degree from a proper university, to get to that level). She had to interview for her own job earlier this year, although the person she was competing with withdrew and has gone abroad. No one new is taken on permanently so everyone is always on the look-out for another job.

[Ganglandboss]

crankedup said:

The only bully boy involved is the Tory led Government. It is their mantra to make every attempt to keep ordinary hard working decent people struggle in daily life. They rely upon the good will of service industries to do the right thing for those that they serve.

Have you any evidence to back this horse-sh*te up?

[mph1977]

Sheepshanks said:

The over-training of nurses strikes me as ridiculous.

<snip>

can you explain to me why you consider none -medical Health Professionals to be 'over trained' ?

or are you oneof these people who think Doctors give Orders about everything and everyone else in the Health service doesn;t make assessments, undertake or request investigations , formulated diagnosis and create plans of care from these diagnosis in collaboration with other professionals ?

The Management grades in Nursing are still almost universally Trained Nurses rather than Educated ones, this has an important cultural and mindset impact. their HE qualification if they hold them are different to the HE preparation for practice that the recent generation of Health professionals have.

[NoNeed]

mrmr96 said:

NoNeed said:

Chicken said:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29343090

UNISON is the first union to announce, but I expect Unite and the others to come out soon.
I work frontline in the NHS, and I don't know how I feel about this.
On one hand, I'm massively underpaid for the job I do, so when the last set of pay 'rises' was announced it was rather galling to learn that MPs had been offered such a huge rise.
On the other hand, I don't like bully boy techniques, and I do worry about the effect this will have on patients.

I know PH is a capitalist hot bed, so I'm expecting to be shot to pieces, but I think I will probably strike (if it gets that far)

What have MP's been offered? by whom and when?

"MPs are currently paid £67,060, which will rise by one per cent to £67,731 next April. Under Ipsa’s plans that would leap to £74,000 for MPs elected at the general election in the following month."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-...

So they have been told by an independent body that they should have a pay rise but rejected that?

So MP's are NOT and have NOT been offered a pay increase.

And for that you want to strike?

[mrmr96]

NoNeed said:

mrmr96 said:

NoNeed said:

Chicken said:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29343090

UNISON is the first union to announce, but I expect Unite and the others to come out soon.
I work frontline in the NHS, and I don't know how I feel about this.
On one hand, I'm massively underpaid for the job I do, so when the last set of pay 'rises' was announced it was rather galling to learn that MPs had been offered such a huge rise.
On the other hand, I don't like bully boy techniques, and I do worry about the effect this will have on patients.

I know PH is a capitalist hot bed, so I'm expecting to be shot to pieces, but I think I will probably strike (if it gets that far)

What have MP's been offered? by whom and when?

"MPs are currently paid £67,060, which will rise by one per cent to £67,731 next April. Under Ipsa’s plans that would leap to £74,000 for MPs elected at the general election in the following month."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-...

So they have been told by an independent body that they should have a pay rise but rejected that?

So MP's are NOT and have NOT been offered a pay increase.

And for that you want to strike?

No, as it stands the MP's will get the payrise stated. They will have to abolish IPSA to stop it I think.

Besides which, that isn't the reason for the strike, it's the answer to the question you asked.

[gpo746]

When Ed Milliband ascends into No 10 downing street they will never need to strike again. He will save the NHS.
Not only that but that other nice man (whose name I forgot as I couldn't see the on screen thing through my tears) has said that instead of having to go to the hospital the NHS will come to me.
The NHS will not only be safe in labours hands it will be glorious and brilliant and superb and look after everyone everywhere for ever.

Hallelujah