Discussion
mph1977 said:
the NHS has had a number of years of pay freezes , this dis regards those who at one or more points i nthe past 10 years have been downgraded at the whim of management as the correct grade for the job they are doing per the JE system is not what the Management thought it would be ...
Did anyone have a pay reduction during the recession though?Many people not paid by the tax payer did.
The annual budget deficet is roughtly equivalent to the spending on the NHS. The NHS and public alike need to accept that the government spends beyond it's means and everyone will have to take some pain to resolve the situation. Trouble is, some think they should be exempt.
rovinghawk said:
mph1977 said:
what does your poor choice of employer have to do with anything
If you intend striking, we could ask you the exact same question. rovinghawk said:
mph1977 said:
incremental pay is not a cost , it is a saving when staff are paid less than the 'the rate for the job' for up to 6 years
That's a highly biased interpretation, to say the least. rovinghawk said:
mph1977 said:
should you dare to have a career break of be long term sick to the point where your contract is terminated , trusts have the option of taking you back to a lower pay point if you re-entre the NHS.
Outside the NHS it would be considered extremely generous to get a job back at all after enough sick leave to exceed even the allowances that the NHS gives. But you won't see it that way, obviously.Edited by mph1977 on Thursday 25th September 10:33
We unfortunately have the Unison members magazine pushed through the letterbox most months because the previous home owner was an NHS admin worker (still not changed their address for most things which is a pain in the arse!).
It's so hate filled and aggressive, I can understand why NHS workers end up feeling the way they do. I imagine it's no different to the BNP members magazine where they probably do everything they can to incite hatred and anger amongst the readership.
It's so hate filled and aggressive, I can understand why NHS workers end up feeling the way they do. I imagine it's no different to the BNP members magazine where they probably do everything they can to incite hatred and anger amongst the readership.
Crush said:
We unfortunately have the Unison members magazine pushed through the letterbox most months because the previous home owner was an NHS admin worker (still not changed their address for most things which is a pain in the arse!).
It's so hate filled and aggressive, I can understand why NHS workers end up feeling the way they do. I imagine it's no different to the BNP members magazine where they probably do everything they can to incite hatred and anger amongst the readership.
Unison are stuck in the past and suffer from the facism of the left . It's so hate filled and aggressive, I can understand why NHS workers end up feeling the way they do. I imagine it's no different to the BNP members magazine where they probably do everything they can to incite hatred and anger amongst the readership.
Unison are the main contributor tothe stories aobut NHS staff being paid to to do union work - many trusts have one or more full time Unison Officers paid by the trust.
I have never heard a reason from a Unison rep trying to recruit Nurses ( registered or HCA) why Unison is better than the RCN , only that the RCN is up the bum of the establishment .
wiith regard toanother poster's point oabut pay cuts durign the recession, as Gordon had abolished Boom and bust immediately prior 2008 -2010 NHS pay was part of a three year deal which gave 6- 7 % over the three years - a bribe to shut (the) Uni(s)ons up in the run up to a General election which at that point he truely thought he would beat all records and have a fourth Glorious Neu Arbeit term
neenaw said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
The problem with the NHS isn't under funding, it's over provision of services.
The problem with the NHS isn't under funding, you're correct. The problem is the way the funds are wasted.If you got rid of all the extra layers of management and other bureaucracy that exist within the NHS they'd be able to offer better services and probably still have money left over to pay for extra staff.
I work in the NHS & think I get paid a reasonable rate for the job I do. However I could point out loads of utterly pointless departments or higher paid people who do nothing of any use all around the place. Rubbish like 'service improvement' who get paid as much as managers to ask the managers how they'd improve the service, go away then come back & tell them to do what they want - so exactly what'd happen without 'service improvement' but with added delays & cost. Half the admin staff are too lazy & stupid to find their own desk let alone do their job properly too.
Hooli said:
I work in the NHS & think I get paid a reasonable rate for the job I do. However I could point out loads of utterly pointless departments or higher paid people who do nothing of any use all around the place. Rubbish like 'service improvement' who get paid as much as managers to ask the managers how they'd improve the service, go away then come back & tell them to do what they want - so exactly what'd happen without 'service improvement' but with added delays & cost.
Anecdotally, having spend a bit of time visiting bits of the NHS a few years back, this appears to be the case. There seem to be a lot of people doing a very good job, surrounded by a lot more people who do not seem productive or effectively employed.Hooli said:
Half the admin staff are too lazy & stupid to find their own desk let alone do their job properly too.
Which might explain why I witnessed so many people aimlessly wandering about one hospital in particular.rxtx said:
crankedup said:
The only bully boy involved is the Tory led Government. It is their mantra to make every attempt to keep ordinary hard working decent people struggle in daily life. They rely upon the good will of service industries to do the right thing for those that they serve.
What a load of crap.crankedup said:
rxtx said:
crankedup said:
The only bully boy involved is the Tory led Government. It is their mantra to make every attempt to keep ordinary hard working decent people struggle in daily life. They rely upon the good will of service industries to do the right thing for those that they serve.
What a load of crap.The biggest problem is that the NHS will expand to absorb all available funds.
With more money, you can treat patients better, keeping them alive for longer...and burdening the NHS even further in increasingly expensive ways. NICE signs off treatments that cost up to £30,000 per "quali" point. People are becoming less fit and expecting more from the NHS. There is a massive diabetic issue around the corner.
No politician knows how to handle this. We cannot afford to clinically treat people the way they would like to be treated. So Miliband takes cheap shots about Coalition "cuts" even though there haven't been any, because the simple-minded party faithful will lap it up and it makes a good soundbite. The NHS is safe in Labour's hands; is this the same Labour who architected and executed the biggest IT failure ever seen, costing £10Bn? (see http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs...) How many nurses do you get for £10Bn?
With more money, you can treat patients better, keeping them alive for longer...and burdening the NHS even further in increasingly expensive ways. NICE signs off treatments that cost up to £30,000 per "quali" point. People are becoming less fit and expecting more from the NHS. There is a massive diabetic issue around the corner.
No politician knows how to handle this. We cannot afford to clinically treat people the way they would like to be treated. So Miliband takes cheap shots about Coalition "cuts" even though there haven't been any, because the simple-minded party faithful will lap it up and it makes a good soundbite. The NHS is safe in Labour's hands; is this the same Labour who architected and executed the biggest IT failure ever seen, costing £10Bn? (see http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs...) How many nurses do you get for £10Bn?
Just back from the hospital today.
My son was in for an endospoy. Overall im more than happy about everything to date.
But both my wife and i commented on that for a large proportion of the time, the nurses on the ward were not really doing anything.
Their was a laughable moment when one nurse commented that it was another busy day. 2 seconds later they were joined by a nurse who sat down at the table, head on her palms starring out of the window. As they continued chatting about previous holidays.
Due to the nature of that particular ward i think its reasonable that their will be some waiting around. But overall i dont think they were overworked.
Throughout different aspects of his treatment i have experianced similar levels of workload.
I imagine that it will vary, and the overall 20+ days ive sat with him on wards may not be a true reflection.
I love the principle of the NHS, and have benefitted from it.
But i feel many look at it through rose tinted glasses, and have to accept the reality that it cannot go on forever with no form of accountability and modernisation.
Im very bias in my views, but feel that some in the NHS feel they deserve more just because its the NHS.
My son was in for an endospoy. Overall im more than happy about everything to date.
But both my wife and i commented on that for a large proportion of the time, the nurses on the ward were not really doing anything.
Their was a laughable moment when one nurse commented that it was another busy day. 2 seconds later they were joined by a nurse who sat down at the table, head on her palms starring out of the window. As they continued chatting about previous holidays.
Due to the nature of that particular ward i think its reasonable that their will be some waiting around. But overall i dont think they were overworked.
Throughout different aspects of his treatment i have experianced similar levels of workload.
I imagine that it will vary, and the overall 20+ days ive sat with him on wards may not be a true reflection.
I love the principle of the NHS, and have benefitted from it.
But i feel many look at it through rose tinted glasses, and have to accept the reality that it cannot go on forever with no form of accountability and modernisation.
Im very bias in my views, but feel that some in the NHS feel they deserve more just because its the NHS.
Hooli said:
I work in the NHS & think I get paid a reasonable rate for the job I do. However I could point out loads of utterly pointless departments or higher paid people who do nothing of any use all around the place. Rubbish like 'service improvement' who get paid as much as managers to ask the managers how they'd improve the service, go away then come back & tell them to do what they want - so exactly what'd happen without 'service improvement' but with added delays & cost. Half the admin staff are too lazy & stupid to find their own desk let alone do their job properly too.
god forbid you actually let some clinicians go and do things like 6Sigma greenbelt so they can embed service improvement into the services they work in , no instead we'll employ some failed baked been stacking manager from the co-op ... who then wonders why clinicians are 'resistant' and 'not team players' when the gaming of systems which is common in logistics isn't applied to patients ...
mikebradford said:
Just back from the hospital today.
My son was in for an endospoy. Overall im more than happy about everything to date.
But both my wife and i commented on that for a large proportion of the time, the nurses on the ward were not really doing anything.
Their was a laughable moment when one nurse commented that it was another busy day. 2 seconds later they were joined by a nurse who sat down at the table, head on her palms starring out of the window. As they continued chatting about previous holidays.
Due to the nature of that particular ward i think its reasonable that their will be some waiting around. But overall i dont think they were overworked.
Throughout different aspects of his treatment i have experianced similar levels of workload.
I imagine that it will vary, and the overall 20+ days ive sat with him on wards may not be a true reflection.
I love the principle of the NHS, and have benefitted from it.
But i feel many look at it through rose tinted glasses, and have to accept the reality that it cannot go on forever with no form of accountability and modernisation.
Im very bias in my views, but feel that some in the NHS feel they deserve more just because its the NHS.
How old is your son ? as if he;s under 16 / 18 paeds is a very different world to the rest of the NHS My son was in for an endospoy. Overall im more than happy about everything to date.
But both my wife and i commented on that for a large proportion of the time, the nurses on the ward were not really doing anything.
Their was a laughable moment when one nurse commented that it was another busy day. 2 seconds later they were joined by a nurse who sat down at the table, head on her palms starring out of the window. As they continued chatting about previous holidays.
Due to the nature of that particular ward i think its reasonable that their will be some waiting around. But overall i dont think they were overworked.
Throughout different aspects of his treatment i have experianced similar levels of workload.
I imagine that it will vary, and the overall 20+ days ive sat with him on wards may not be a true reflection.
I love the principle of the NHS, and have benefitted from it.
But i feel many look at it through rose tinted glasses, and have to accept the reality that it cannot go on forever with no form of accountability and modernisation.
Im very bias in my views, but feel that some in the NHS feel they deserve more just because its the NHS.
and 'nurses' or 'Nurses' ? it's amax#zing hoe many complaints oabut Nurses are not aobut Nurses but are about community social care staff or about HCAs ... there's a lot of HCas who just make utter fools of themselves of it , by displaying their unconcisous incompetence when it comes to Nursing rather than the tsmall subset of Nursing HCAs do.
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