Labour stretches lead over Tories
Discussion
Rovinghawk said:
crankedup said:
Are you saying that all the monthly contributions paid by the public employees is only ghost money. In which case the funding managers can remain as they are, lucky them eh!
The money doesn't go into a fund. How can there be a fund manager for a non-existent fund? sidicks said:
crankedup said:
I think the word you are struggling with is "Senior Manager". Not aware of any position that offers a post called 'Senior something'. Now she is an expert, and I'm immensely proud of her achievements, especially in such a drab and boring subject area.
Does that mean "administration"?crankedup said:
Rovinghawk said:
crankedup said:
Are you saying that all the monthly contributions paid by the public employees is only ghost money. In which case the funding managers can remain as they are, lucky them eh!
The money doesn't go into a fund. How can there be a fund manager for a non-existent fund? I've done a bit of land reclamation/island building so have a small amount of experience if you wish to debate it.......................
The criticism was that police cost so much because of their pensions.
When there was an 'independent' review of police pay back in my day they came to the evidenced conclusion that if the police paid a bit over 11% of their income towards a pension then it would be self-funding. It actually made a profit, i.e. is paid out less than was taken from serving officers, right up until the mid 90s. If one took into consideration the profits made over the years, then it ran into the 2000s.
Then, just to make things fairer, the pay award was reduced to take into account the attraction of the police pension.
Logic, of course, never had much to do with pay awards to the service given there was no union.
There was a way of increasing the wages year on year in a fair way. However, this was soon scrapped as being too fair and so the independent pay review body decision was felt to be much too sensible. And police pay was gradually reduced in real terms over the years.
Under this government is has been slashed.
The police service is underfunded. This is something personal via Cameron. No other tory seems that keen on it (nor PCCs either) but that didn't stop him going ahead with the attack.
I've got friends and ex-colleagues still in the service and they, to a man and woman, reckon that they cannot respond to current demands. If the riots start again, then where are the officers to come from? Mutual Aid is now used for run of the mill situations.
When there was an 'independent' review of police pay back in my day they came to the evidenced conclusion that if the police paid a bit over 11% of their income towards a pension then it would be self-funding. It actually made a profit, i.e. is paid out less than was taken from serving officers, right up until the mid 90s. If one took into consideration the profits made over the years, then it ran into the 2000s.
Then, just to make things fairer, the pay award was reduced to take into account the attraction of the police pension.
Logic, of course, never had much to do with pay awards to the service given there was no union.
There was a way of increasing the wages year on year in a fair way. However, this was soon scrapped as being too fair and so the independent pay review body decision was felt to be much too sensible. And police pay was gradually reduced in real terms over the years.
Under this government is has been slashed.
The police service is underfunded. This is something personal via Cameron. No other tory seems that keen on it (nor PCCs either) but that didn't stop him going ahead with the attack.
I've got friends and ex-colleagues still in the service and they, to a man and woman, reckon that they cannot respond to current demands. If the riots start again, then where are the officers to come from? Mutual Aid is now used for run of the mill situations.
crankedup said:
I think the word you are struggling with is Senior Manager. Not aware of any position that offers a post called 'Senior something'.
Why would I know your daughters job title (or rather creepily go back through all your posts to try and find out)? All I know is what you have said on here previously to try and give your posts on the subject a veneer of authority. In any event I'm not convinced senior manager is any more descriptive of her area of expertise than 'senior something in pensions'. If you had said she is a senior fund manager I'd understand what she did. But we digress, with regards public sector pensions the word you seem to be forgetting is 'unfunded'; the vast majority are unfunded, ie there are no funds or fund managers (AFAIK the exceptions being the partially funded local government, universities and MP's schemes - quelle suprise on the last one)Derek Smith said:
I've got friends and ex-colleagues still in the service and they, to a man and woman, reckon that they cannot respond to current demands. If the riots start again, then where are the officers to come from? Mutual Aid is now used for run of the mill situations.
We can't, but we are still expected to pick up the slack from all the other services that have been cut. In all my years in this job, there has always been an ambulance available at incidents. The last few years I've had repeated jobs where no ambulance is free to come to me. I've been at serious RTCs where I've waited over an hour for with a seriously injured person. We're taking people to hospital in the back of Police cars. They're using St John Ambulance to answer 999 calls for Gods sake. Cameron and his merry crew have said that the Police will suffer the same budget cuts again in the coming years if they win the next election. My Force has gone from 41 Police Stations to 9 under Cameron. My Shift has 30% less Officers. Taking another £1 billion from the Police budget will make the whole service unviable (but maybe that's their aim). There seems to be plenty of cash to fund Tory soundbites. It's a shame they can't fund the common man's security.
Derek Smith said:
The criticism was that police cost so much because of their pensions.
When there was an 'independent' review of police pay back in my day they came to the evidenced conclusion that if the police paid a bit over 11% of their income towards a pension then it would be self-funding. It actually made a profit, i.e. is paid out less than was taken from serving officers, right up until the mid 90s. If one took into consideration the profits made over the years, then it ran into the 2000s.
Please provide a link to this 'independent' review....When there was an 'independent' review of police pay back in my day they came to the evidenced conclusion that if the police paid a bit over 11% of their income towards a pension then it would be self-funding. It actually made a profit, i.e. is paid out less than was taken from serving officers, right up until the mid 90s. If one took into consideration the profits made over the years, then it ran into the 2000s.
As an alternative view (from 2010):
The average police officer will now live for 34 years after retirement, meaning they will spend longer drawing a police pension than they spent drawing a police salary
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/7840245/...
Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 30th September 17:15
sidicks said:
crankedup said:
Lets see these stat's, with time lines.
Suggest those that are claiming otherwise produce the relevant public spending stats.The other stats were from Bloomberg today.
Rovinghawk said:
crankedup said:
Rovinghawk said:
crankedup said:
Are you saying that all the monthly contributions paid by the public employees is only ghost money. In which case the funding managers can remain as they are, lucky them eh!
The money doesn't go into a fund. How can there be a fund manager for a non-existent fund? I've done a bit of land reclamation/island building so have a small amount of experience if you wish to debate it.......................
My opinion was that Boris was providing a bit of politicking knowing very well his project was never going anywhere, a distraction if you like.
Rovinghawk said:
Sidicks- when I raised similar points before, I was informed by Derek et al that police have almost zero post-retirement life expectancy, therefore your facts are irrelevant.
Thatcher bad (she has to come into such discussions), Cameron bad, police good. Got it?
No sweat Sidkicks will be back in a few minutes, his off chasing around for some Stat's presently. Thatcher bad (she has to come into such discussions), Cameron bad, police good. Got it?
Rovinghawk said:
Sidicks- when I raised similar points before, I was informed by Derek et al that police have almost zero post-retirement life expectancy, therefore your facts are irrelevant.
Thatcher bad (she has to come into such discussions), Cameron bad, police good. Got it?
In that case we could save them the 11% contribution rate and given them no pension - surely they'd be (much) better off in such a scenario....Thatcher bad (she has to come into such discussions), Cameron bad, police good. Got it?
crankedup said:
DJRC said:
crankedup said:
DJRC said:
crankedup said:
DJRC said:
crankedup said:
Do not fret Ladies and Gentlemen, you can still enjoy Pistonheads from any corner of the globe that you care to depart to.The only hope is that Lib-Dems continue in coalition Government and moderate the worst excesses of Labour.
You haven't yet justified what worst excesses of Toryism they have moderated...Politics is subjective with no definitive answers that will satisfy all readers, I'm afraid it would be pointless preparing a list.
TB. The kid hasn't had an original thought ever since he first started quoting other bits of the internet in the original climate thread.I asked •you• what worst excesses of toryism the lib dems have moderated. CMD isn't very Tory, in fact he is probably far more orange book lib dem than Tory, which is probably why he gets on so well with Cleggers. I suspect the same is true of Gorgeous George which is why he works well with Danny Alexander. Who incidentally I rate as a very competent guy.
We have a very wet centrist govt currently, its very very dovish and whilst I am more than happy to have a govt support mortgage payers than risk averse savers, the hawks do have fair points. For the wrong reasons but fair points. The Tories should have slashed and cut much much harder than they have done, they should have been much more surgical, prexise , detailed and organised in how they approached the defecit. CMD has very little proactive balls though so hates such a thing as sticking your neck out and leading. But I'll give praise and credit for Gorgeous George and I never thought Id say that in 2010. The weak link has come out of the last 4.5 yes with the most credit.
Edited by Big Al. on Monday 29th September 18:54
As for your prognosis on George, I too am pleasantly surprised how authoritative he has grown. And Danny has been the perfect partner, never swaying from the treasury line.
Lets keep in mind, much of what is said is opinion based upon what has or has not been brought to public knowledge.
Is political theory, ideology or even history actually taught anymore or do ppl just pick it up off wiki?
The lower threshold tax thing is actually a very very traditional Tory policy according to ideology, theory and history. But hey, we aren't here to let facts get in the way of anything are we?
The Tories haven't cut deeper because that would!d require CMD A)leading on something and sticking his neck out on something requiring a spine and B) the Tories having a truely detailed plan at a strategic level. We have very much seen over the last 4-5yrs that hasn't been there. Strategically the first two yes were woeful beyond anything Gordon Brown did. Blair, the Dark Prince and Campbell would have eaten them for breakfast.
You seem proud of the idea that the lib dems might have prevented any austerity. This is absurd, there was almost no public spending austerity. There was almost no targeting, almost no planning, almost no detail, almost no precision. It was astoundingly bad politics and bad executive leadership.
What have we ended up with? Half arsed NHS reform and half arsed education reform, armed forces which are now half professional and half militia, a semi broken Union and a relationship with Europe that nobody has a clue where stand.
Piss poor leadership.
Edited by DJRC on Monday 29th September 22:15
There may have been no austerity in your world, but perhaps ask a wider field of people before making such statements
You mention that I 'seem proud' of the Lib-Dems possibly preventing any austerity. 1, They didn't 2. Lib-Dems have assisted to keep the Country afloat, and for that I am pleased with their performance overall in the round. Lib-Dem policy to reduce tax threshold to 10k, the Tories love to suggest it was them all along, some even believe that to be true. So, as you mention, don't let the facts get in the way. Yes I am well aware that the Tories have a mantra for tax cutting, evidence the higher tax band drop making the well off better off whilst simultaneously cutting the benefits of the disabled, another Tory mantra.
The NHS reform was not in any manifesto, fact is Cameron pronounced 'no top down reforms of the NHS' A pledge which the Tories instantly broke, proclaiming to the electorate that what they are undertaking is not a 'top down reform'. Clearly not, a insult to the electorate is more accurate.
I agree with you regarding the distinct lack of strategic policy planning during the first years of this Parliament. Well certainly it looked and felt that way.
Actually about the country, doing it right, what's best for the country irrespective of party politics...you just don't care.
Cromwell was right back then and he is still right today. A pox upon you all.
sidicks said:
Elroy Blue said:
I'm sure there is a separate thread detailing how all Public sector workers are parasites who dare to live beyond retirement. If you'd like to post your views on there and keep this thread on track, it might make more sense.
So you can't justify your claims?Move along, nothing to see..............
sidicks said:
So you can't justify your claims?
What claims?I've posted facts about the damage done to the Emergency services under this Gov, while they splash money over things that might buy them votes (and lets not forget hundreds of millions through incompetence). I don't need to justify them, they're happening and real.
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