Labour stretches lead over Tories
Discussion
P-Jay said:
I'm hardly surprised - after all the Tories didn't win the last one when Labour was all but unelectable.
Since then they've destroyed the creditability of their coalition partners whose extra voters last time around were largely Labour voters who couldn't face another 5 years of Gordon Brown, who've gone back to type.
They've lost old school Tory voters to UKIP, who can promise the world financially without fear of actually having to do any of it, whilst playing on the fears of their followers.
And they can soapbox all they like about the Economy, but really they've done exactly what they said they wouldn't do - namely they've fixed the economy for the city, but not the public - the 'man on the street' is still worried about their long-term employment, feeling real world inflation hurt them and I think have finally, after being told the opposite for decades learned the important truth - inflated house prices are good for the banks, good for the treasury and good for Estate Agents - for everyone else it's a bad thing.
Added to which the Tories have often deliberately pissed off their supporters at times.Since then they've destroyed the creditability of their coalition partners whose extra voters last time around were largely Labour voters who couldn't face another 5 years of Gordon Brown, who've gone back to type.
They've lost old school Tory voters to UKIP, who can promise the world financially without fear of actually having to do any of it, whilst playing on the fears of their followers.
And they can soapbox all they like about the Economy, but really they've done exactly what they said they wouldn't do - namely they've fixed the economy for the city, but not the public - the 'man on the street' is still worried about their long-term employment, feeling real world inflation hurt them and I think have finally, after being told the opposite for decades learned the important truth - inflated house prices are good for the banks, good for the treasury and good for Estate Agents - for everyone else it's a bad thing.
Withdrawal of Child benefit from higher rate taxpayers is a very good example.
JagLover said:
P-Jay said:
I'm hardly surprised - after all the Tories didn't win the last one when Labour was all but unelectable.
Since then they've destroyed the creditability of their coalition partners whose extra voters last time around were largely Labour voters who couldn't face another 5 years of Gordon Brown, who've gone back to type.
They've lost old school Tory voters to UKIP, who can promise the world financially without fear of actually having to do any of it, whilst playing on the fears of their followers.
And they can soapbox all they like about the Economy, but really they've done exactly what they said they wouldn't do - namely they've fixed the economy for the city, but not the public - the 'man on the street' is still worried about their long-term employment, feeling real world inflation hurt them and I think have finally, after being told the opposite for decades learned the important truth - inflated house prices are good for the banks, good for the treasury and good for Estate Agents - for everyone else it's a bad thing.
Added to which the Tories have often deliberately pissed off their supporters at times.Since then they've destroyed the creditability of their coalition partners whose extra voters last time around were largely Labour voters who couldn't face another 5 years of Gordon Brown, who've gone back to type.
They've lost old school Tory voters to UKIP, who can promise the world financially without fear of actually having to do any of it, whilst playing on the fears of their followers.
And they can soapbox all they like about the Economy, but really they've done exactly what they said they wouldn't do - namely they've fixed the economy for the city, but not the public - the 'man on the street' is still worried about their long-term employment, feeling real world inflation hurt them and I think have finally, after being told the opposite for decades learned the important truth - inflated house prices are good for the banks, good for the treasury and good for Estate Agents - for everyone else it's a bad thing.
Withdrawal of Child benefit from higher rate taxpayers is a very good example.
P-Jay said:
I'm hardly surprised - after all the Tories didn't win the last one when Labour was all but unelectable.
I have always said this. We had the most calamitous, irresponsible (Labour)Government, which wrecked the country, and Cameron couldn't win an overall majority in the face of this. It should have been a walk in the park.I think it speaks volumes when he was unable to connect with the voting public, when the Labour Party had buggered up everything they had touched.
He even had to employ "dodgy" Coulson into the heart of government to get some idea of what was happening with the man on the street, as him and Osbourne were so far removed from everyday life.
Cameron has proved to be out of touch, regularly blabbing his mouth off when he shouldn't, i.e Court cases for Coulson and Nigella which could have collapsed. He has now broken protocol blabbing off about conversations with the Queen, and it was him that patronisingly said to Senior people in the Armed Forces, when they challenged defence cuts "You do the Fighting and I'll do the talking."
The Queen must think he is a right idiot, and will probably be very wary of what she says to him now. Once someone betrays your trust, it is hard to have confidence that the person won't do it again.
I think it is the upper-class Posh-ness, smugness and the perception of a lack of understanding of the average person in the street which is turning people off Cameron and the Tories.
Really, all the parties are inhabited by cretins, and until you get a Government that works for the people and are not underpinned by Unions or backed by those with vested interests, I will always be highly cynical of any political parties motives.
Ashcroft's latest poll released in the past hour.
Lord Ashcroft Polls said:
Ashcroft National Poll: Con 32%, Lab 32%, LDem 8%, UKIP 17%, Green 4%
The Conservatives are level with Labour in this week’s Ashcroft National Poll, conducted over the past turbulent weekend. Other surveys published in recent days have shown no consistent pattern; Labour leads with other pollsters have been up, down and unchanged. In the ANP both main parties remain within the margin of error of their long term average: 30% for the Tories, 34% for Labour.
One third (33%) of voters said they were satisfied with the job David Cameron was doing overall as Prime Minister, up four points since I last asked the question in May. Nearly three in ten said they were dissatisfied but would still rather have him as PM than Ed Miliband (29%, down one point since May). Only just over a quarter (26%, down two points) said they would prefer to see Miliband in Number Ten.
Swing voters, who say they do not know how they will vote or that they may switch from their current party, were more likely than average to say they preferred Cameron (69%). Only two thirds of Labour voters (65%) said they would rather see Miliband as PM. The remaining third who are either satisfied with Cameron (16%) or dissatisfied but think he is better than their own leader (16%); whether this will be enough to persuade them to switch parties as the election approaches is a different question.
The Liberal Democrats, preparing for their own conference next week, need to persuade voters that they have had a positive influence on the decisions of the government and deserve to be back in office. This looks like an uphill struggle. Only one third (33%) said they thought the Lib Dems had had the right amount of influence within the coalition, while four in ten (including 42% of swing voters) thought they did not seem to have enough influence. As I have found in other research, many people are glad they are there to temper the worst instincts of the Tories, but they struggle to name specific Lib Dem achievements.
The Conservatives, meanwhile, should not assume most people share their own understandable view that the government would have achieved more and better things without the yellow shackles. Though Tory voters were more likely than most to think the Lib Dems have had too much influence (26%), even they were more inclined to think Nick Clegg’s party had either had the right amount of influence (51%) or too little (21%).
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/ashcroft-national-poll-con-32-lab-32-ldem-8-ukip-17-green-4/The Conservatives are level with Labour in this week’s Ashcroft National Poll, conducted over the past turbulent weekend. Other surveys published in recent days have shown no consistent pattern; Labour leads with other pollsters have been up, down and unchanged. In the ANP both main parties remain within the margin of error of their long term average: 30% for the Tories, 34% for Labour.
One third (33%) of voters said they were satisfied with the job David Cameron was doing overall as Prime Minister, up four points since I last asked the question in May. Nearly three in ten said they were dissatisfied but would still rather have him as PM than Ed Miliband (29%, down one point since May). Only just over a quarter (26%, down two points) said they would prefer to see Miliband in Number Ten.
Swing voters, who say they do not know how they will vote or that they may switch from their current party, were more likely than average to say they preferred Cameron (69%). Only two thirds of Labour voters (65%) said they would rather see Miliband as PM. The remaining third who are either satisfied with Cameron (16%) or dissatisfied but think he is better than their own leader (16%); whether this will be enough to persuade them to switch parties as the election approaches is a different question.
The Liberal Democrats, preparing for their own conference next week, need to persuade voters that they have had a positive influence on the decisions of the government and deserve to be back in office. This looks like an uphill struggle. Only one third (33%) said they thought the Lib Dems had had the right amount of influence within the coalition, while four in ten (including 42% of swing voters) thought they did not seem to have enough influence. As I have found in other research, many people are glad they are there to temper the worst instincts of the Tories, but they struggle to name specific Lib Dem achievements.
The Conservatives, meanwhile, should not assume most people share their own understandable view that the government would have achieved more and better things without the yellow shackles. Though Tory voters were more likely than most to think the Lib Dems have had too much influence (26%), even they were more inclined to think Nick Clegg’s party had either had the right amount of influence (51%) or too little (21%).
Cameron is a man child, and as mentioned lacks the common touch. He surrounded himself with idiots initially, and took conservative voters for granted. One can only assume they didn't really want to win the 2010 election, basically a dereliction of duty, to be fair thatcher never ran from a challenge, cameron and co just want to be seen with the right people.
crankedup said:
I have often heard it said that Thatchers populism rose sharply on the back of the Falklands conflict. She was generally considered to be unpopular until that point in time? Interested in you POV on this.
It is fair to say that the war divided the country, but the majority supported it.Thatcher came out of it well, especially as the circumstances were quite straightforward and they were well reported. Despite some politicians going along the appeasement route, she stuck to her, er, guns. She took a bit of a knock over the Delgrano but the victory sealed everything. It put us in debt to the Americans of course, but that wasn't mentioned.
The bombing of the Grand Hotel, especially her immediate response, giving the interview on the steps of the damaged hotel with debris on her clothes and in her hair, was iconic. The PIRA must have been patting themselves on the back after their brave bombing of people in a hotel and then the interview and they must have been crying into their half pints of Guinness.
However, there was a bit of an upturn in the economy just before then, with North Sea oil coming on tap and, if memory serves, there were some policies to appease the working class, which had taken a bit of a pounding with the interest squeeze. So there was a general upturn in support. Also, the miners' strikes were of concern to many and she was seen as one of the few to stand up to them.
Don't mention the poll tax.
gpo746 said:
I just DON'T see what they have done that's positive or the tories unduly negative to cause this.
Am I missing something that they did ? If so what.
crankedup said:
DJRC said:
crankedup said:
Do not fret Ladies and Gentlemen, you can still enjoy Pistonheads from any corner of the globe that you care to depart to.The only hope is that Lib-Dems continue in coalition Government and moderate the worst excesses of Labour.
You haven't yet justified what worst excesses of Toryism they have moderated...Politics is subjective with no definitive answers that will satisfy all readers, I'm afraid it would be pointless preparing a list.
TB. The kid hasn't had an original thought ever since he first started quoting other bits of the internet in the original climate thread.I asked •you• what worst excesses of toryism the lib dems have moderated. CMD isn't very Tory, in fact he is probably far more orange book lib dem than Tory, which is probably why he gets on so well with Cleggers. I suspect the same is true of Gorgeous George which is why he works well with Danny Alexander. Who incidentally I rate as a very competent guy.
We have a very wet centrist govt currently, its very very dovish and whilst I am more than happy to have a govt support mortgage payers than risk averse savers, the hawks do have fair points. For the wrong reasons but fair points. The Tories should have slashed and cut much much harder than they have done, they should have been much more surgical, prexise , detailed and organised in how they approached the defecit. CMD has very little proactive balls though so hates such a thing as sticking your neck out and leading. But I'll give praise and credit for Gorgeous George and I never thought Id say that in 2010. The weak link has come out of the last 4.5 yes with the most credit.
Edited by Big Al. on Monday 29th September 18:54
fblm said:
crankedup said:
fblm said:
crankedup said:
Do not fret Ladies and Gentlemen, you can still enjoy Pistonheads from any corner of the globe that you care to depart to.The only hope is that Lib-Dems continue in coalition Government and moderate the worst excesses of Labour.
I can confirm that Pistonheads is available in the Caribbean and has been since the last Labour government was busy destroying the country. I'd rather see a Labour landslide than another LibDem coalition. 
As for the next Government personal preferences, well its what voting is for and thankfully we are able to continue our democratic choices.
My comment regarding the LibDems was not meant to be antagonistic toward you, rereading it certainly looks that way so my apologies. I just think the LibDem agenda is more left wing than Labour's and think the current coalition has been nothing is not utterly mediocre.
Best of luck with your new venture.
Thanks for 'good luck' gesture. I may find myself spending more time in the 'business forum seeking advise from seasoned business folk, been some years since I ventured out.crankedup said:
Turbo reckons the Lib-Dems HAVE stymied some Tory policy proposals, been a dead weight for them in fact, slowing down their progress in resolving the Countries problems.
That's because the LibDims have done just that. Last year Clegg tried hard to be the bad boy at conference and spoke openly about blocking 16 Conservative policy proposals while fighting the Tories tooth and nail over benefits cuts, IHT, HRA, windymills, regional pay, cutting the number of MPs, immigration. A couple of those could have saved the country many £billions and the others would have been a qualitative improvement over the alternative. Cable wanted the gov't to borrow more and set Osborne's successful Plan A off-track. The LibDems have fools aplenty with some unoriginal thinking that also involved insults aimed at conservatism and socialism. Better to stick to rational debate, even with socialists and Tourette's victims. LibDems maintaining the status quo has held the country back.
Derek Smith said:
crankedup said:
I have often heard it said that Thatchers populism rose sharply on the back of the Falklands conflict. She was generally considered to be unpopular until that point in time? Interested in you POV on this.
It is fair to say that the war divided the country, but the majority supported it.Thatcher came out of it well, especially as the circumstances were quite straightforward and they were well reported. Despite some politicians going along the appeasement route, she stuck to her, er, guns. She took a bit of a knock over the Delgrano but the victory sealed everything. It put us in debt to the Americans of course, but that wasn't mentioned.
The bombing of the Grand Hotel, especially her immediate response, giving the interview on the steps of the damaged hotel with debris on her clothes and in her hair, was iconic. The PIRA must have been patting themselves on the back after their brave bombing of people in a hotel and then the interview and they must have been crying into their half pints of Guinness.
However, there was a bit of an upturn in the economy just before then, with North Sea oil coming on tap and, if memory serves, there were some policies to appease the working class, which had taken a bit of a pounding with the interest squeeze. So there was a general upturn in support. Also, the miners' strikes were of concern to many and she was seen as one of the few to stand up to them.
Don't mention the poll tax.
As for the Poll Tax, OK not to be mentioned.
crankedup said:
Not that I particularly agreed with the policies at the time, and I recall vividly being shafted through sky high interest rates hitting my then mortgage.
One of my staff broke down in tears on Black Wednesday and asked to be let home. I was so worried about her that I refused as I didn't want her left alone. I went to see the welfare officer to see if she had any ideas and she too had broken down on hearing 15%.In the end I sent my distressed staff member home with my office manager. Me and my sergeant had to stay behind for a couple of hours to catch up with the work.
The following day, problems over I felt, but she, the distressed woman, didn't appear. Her hubby phoned and booked her off sick. I had no idea she was struggling with money. She went to welfare on her return and they helped her out.
One point (not that I'm still bitter about something that happened over 20 years ago): My overtime budget, hardly generous, was all but gone by then (September/October) due to me being understaffed. The welfare officer asked if I could give the woman more overtime. When I mentioned that I'd used the budget up a month before, she mentioned that she'd seen people in my offices often after 5pm - staff left at 4.45, 4.30 Friday. I said that was me. She said that it was outrageous that I was keeping all the overtime to myself.
I had to apologise for my outburst.
DJRC said:
crankedup said:
DJRC said:
crankedup said:
Do not fret Ladies and Gentlemen, you can still enjoy Pistonheads from any corner of the globe that you care to depart to.The only hope is that Lib-Dems continue in coalition Government and moderate the worst excesses of Labour.
You haven't yet justified what worst excesses of Toryism they have moderated...Politics is subjective with no definitive answers that will satisfy all readers, I'm afraid it would be pointless preparing a list.
TB. The kid hasn't had an original thought ever since he first started quoting other bits of the internet in the original climate thread.I asked •you• what worst excesses of toryism the lib dems have moderated. CMD isn't very Tory, in fact he is probably far more orange book lib dem than Tory, which is probably why he gets on so well with Cleggers. I suspect the same is true of Gorgeous George which is why he works well with Danny Alexander. Who incidentally I rate as a very competent guy.
We have a very wet centrist govt currently, its very very dovish and whilst I am more than happy to have a govt support mortgage payers than risk averse savers, the hawks do have fair points. For the wrong reasons but fair points. The Tories should have slashed and cut much much harder than they have done, they should have been much more surgical, prexise , detailed and organised in how they approached the defecit. CMD has very little proactive balls though so hates such a thing as sticking your neck out and leading. But I'll give praise and credit for Gorgeous George and I never thought Id say that in 2010. The weak link has come out of the last 4.5 yes with the most credit.
Edited by Big Al. on Monday 29th September 18:54
As for your prognosis on George, I too am pleasantly surprised how authoritative he has grown. And Danny has been the perfect partner, never swaying from the treasury line.
Lets keep in mind, much of what is said is opinion based upon what has or has not been brought to public knowledge.
turbobloke said:
crankedup said:
Turbo reckons the Lib-Dems HAVE stymied some Tory policy proposals, been a dead weight for them in fact, slowing down their progress in resolving the Countries problems.
That's because the LibDims have done just that. Last year Clegg tried hard to be the bad boy at conference and spoke openly about blocking 16 Conservative policy proposals while fighting the Tories tooth and nail over benefits cuts, IHT, HRA, windymills, regional pay, cutting the number of MPs, immigration. A couple of those could have saved the country many £billions and the others would have been a qualitative improvement over the alternative. Cable wanted the gov't to borrow more and set Osborne's successful Plan A off-track. The LibDems have fools aplenty with some unoriginal thinking that also involved insults aimed at conservatism and socialism. Better to stick to rational debate, even with socialists and Tourette's victims. LibDems maintaining the status quo has held the country back.
Seems to me the Country is in a slightly better place now than back 4 years ago, its the coalition we have to thank for that. Also not so much social unrest to be seen either, and yet cuts are still ongoing in plans. Bull in china shop Governments can be seen currently in Hong Kong, spain, Portugal and Greece. Reasonable Governance has spared us from the worst of that imo.
Plan 'A' has not been the so called success first envisaged, not because it couldn't work but the time frame allotted to it was completely out of kilter with what was achievable. It was always going to be a ten year plan, minimum, but George was blustering about three years, hopelessly optimistic to the point of lost credibility.
Cameron needs to get super tough on this type of issue, or else he is doomed.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trojan-horse-scandal-wor...
Mermaid said:
Cameron needs to get super tough on this type of issue, or else he is doomed.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trojan-horse-scandal-wor...
In what way? https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trojan-horse-scandal-wor...
Removing parental choice regarding a child's education?
crankedup said:
turbobloke said:
crankedup said:
Turbo reckons the Lib-Dems HAVE stymied some Tory policy proposals, been a dead weight for them in fact, slowing down their progress in resolving the Countries problems.
That's because the LibDims have done just that. Last year Clegg tried hard to be the bad boy at conference and spoke openly about blocking 16 Conservative policy proposals while fighting the Tories tooth and nail over benefits cuts, IHT, HRA, windymills, regional pay, cutting the number of MPs, immigration. A couple of those could have saved the country many £billions and the others would have been a qualitative improvement over the alternative. Cable wanted the gov't to borrow more and set Osborne's successful Plan A off-track. The LibDems have fools aplenty with some unoriginal thinking that also involved insults aimed at conservatism and socialism. Better to stick to rational debate, even with socialists and Tourette's victims. LibDems maintaining the status quo has held the country back.
http://theenergycollective.com/barrybrook/471651/c...
Each so-called green job created artificially with subsidies destroys nore than one real job, in Scotland around 4 jobs are destroyed for each fake green job (Verso Economics study) and in Spain around 2 jobs (King Juan Carlos University study).
crankedup said:
Seems to me the Country is in a slightly better place now than back 4 years ago, its the coalition we have to thank for that.
It's better as a result of Conservative policies, and not as good as it could be because of the dead weight of LibDems.crankedup said:
Plan 'A' has not been the so called success first envisaged, not because it couldn't work but the time frame allotted to it was completely out of kilter with what was achievable. It was always going to be a ten year plan, minimum, but George was blustering about three years, hopelessly optimistic to the point of lost credibility.
Nonsense. It was working by 2013 (three years) and the recovery would have been quicker without the unnecessary costs and delays arising from LibDem petulance.Fittster said:
Mermaid said:
Cameron needs to get super tough on this type of issue, or else he is doomed.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trojan-horse-scandal-wor...
In what way? https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trojan-horse-scandal-wor...
Removing parental choice regarding a child's education?
Breeding tomorrow's extremists, rather than nipping it in the budSome schools in east London are being taken over by Muslim extremists who are trying to convert pupils and staff to their hardline ideology, according to a report in today's Sunday Times.
"Tower Hamlets is expected to be the next Birmingham," said the DfE source, "but even worse, because the problems surrounding Muslim fundamentalists imposing their views on education seems to be more embedded."
Tower Hamlets has a large Muslim population, and recently hit the headlines when an Islamic State flag was draped at the entrance to one of its housing estates. The flag was torn down by 77-year-old nun Sister Christine Frost.
The area has also seen occasional problems with small groups of Muslims harassing people for drinking alcohol or wearing 'immodest' clothing, although community relations in the area are relatively good.
It emerged that one school had even allowed the screening of an extreme jihadist video to students.
As a result of the inspections more visits were necessary because of concerns they did not offer a broad enough curriculum in certain subjects, including religious tolerance.
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