Labour stretches lead over Tories

[Elroy Blue]

Listening to Boris Johnson's speech. What a bumbling, divisive idiot. (An amusing one, but bumbling and divisive). His world is London. If you don't live there, you don't count.

[sidicks]

Elroy Blue said:

A huge part of the issue is that Cameron has alienated and attacked a vast swathe of the very people that used to be firm Conservative voters. Under the veil of 'austerity' (which only applies where they want it), Cameron has conducted a scorched earth Policy on our Emergency services. The Police cuts for Political purposes, the Fire Brigade because they are seen by Tories as 'militant' and the ambulance service just because they can. Certainly most powerfully built contributors to PH won't feel the affect of these cuts as long as they're not involved in anything nasty. But a friends child collapsed this week and the only ambulance available was one from St Johns Ambulance.(This from a 999 call). The well meaning crew didn't know what to do and her life was saved by a neighbour who is a GP. We, despite hanging on by our fingertips ourselves are having to take people to hospital in Police cars because of cuts to the ambulance service.

Cameron's own hatchet man Tom Winsor has said Police cuts have gone too far. Despite this Cameron has stated that Police will suffer similar cuts in the next Parliament. This is public safety we're talking about. It's a desperate situation and the future is bleak.

Speaking for Police, well over 90% of my shift were lifelong Tory voters. After seeing what they've done (and hearing what future plans are), none of us will ever vote for them again. The contempt they demonstrate for the general public is breathtaking. Having said that, I simply couldn't vote to have Milliband as PM. For the first time in my life, I don't see anybody worthy of the journey to the polling station.

If only it wasn't so expensive to employ police (due to their pensions) we could employ more of them...

[Mermaid]

Elroy Blue said:

Mermaid said:

Not to labour this, Theresa May has just announced tougher vetting of school Governors.

She also said that she was restricting Police Stop search because a number of them were 'probably' (are they or not) illegal. Then she went on to say she was going to deal with the heightened terror threat. So a Politically inspired dig at the Police and how she's going to restrict powers that she intends to increase to deal with the terror threat.

You couldn't make it up.

Agreed. Compromised policymakers.

[JagLover]

Elroy Blue said:

A huge part of the issue is that Cameron has alienated and attacked a vast swathe of the very people that used to be firm Conservative voters. Under the veil of 'austerity' (which only applies where they want it), Cameron has conducted a scorched earth Policy on our Emergency services. The Police cuts for Political purposes, the Fire Brigade because they are seen by Tories as 'militant' and the ambulance service just because they can. Certainly most powerfully built contributors to PH won't feel the affect of these cuts as long as they're not involved in anything nasty. But a friends child collapsed this week and the only ambulance available was one from St Johns Ambulance.(This from a 999 call). The well meaning crew didn't know what to do and her life was saved by a neighbour who is a GP. We, despite hanging on by our fingertips ourselves are having to take people to hospital in Police cars because of cuts to the ambulance service.

Cameron's own hatchet man Tom Winsor has said Police cuts have gone too far. Despite this Cameron has stated that Police will suffer similar cuts in the next Parliament. This is public safety we're talking about. It's a desperate situation and the future is bleak.

Speaking for Police, well over 90% of my shift were lifelong Tory voters. After seeing what they've done (and hearing what future plans are), none of us will ever vote for them again. The contempt they demonstrate for the general public is breathtaking. Having said that, I simply couldn't vote to have Milliband as PM. For the first time in my life, I don't see anybody worthy of the journey to the polling station.

I agree with you on the Police, natural Tory voters treated with virtual contempt.

On firefighters though advances in areas from furniture to electronics have been cutting the number of fires quite drastically. Per the Economist between 2001 and 2012 the number of blazes reported to the fire service in Britain halved. In times of austerity you might well need to scale back the service accordingly.

[Derek Smith]

JagLover said:

I agree with you on the Police, natural Tory voters treated with virtual contempt.

On firefighters though advances in areas from furniture to electronics have been cutting the number of fires quite drastically. Per the Economist between 2001 and 2012 the number of blazes reported to the fire service in Britain halved. In times of austerity you might well need to scale back the service accordingly.

The fire service has resisted change due to its strong union. Whether this is good or bad has to be considered against the police and ambulance service where non union in the former and weaker union in the latter has allowed the government to run riot and pose about how clever it's been whilst leaving both services in disarray. The only positive for the police is that they haven't been quite so badly treated as the ambulance service. For them it is a disaster.

[anonymous-user]

Elroy Blue said:

Listening to Boris Johnson's speech. What a bumbling, divisive idiot. (An amusing one, but bumbling and divisive). His world is London. If you don't live there, you don't count.

I honestly don't know what to make of Boris but he is the Mayor of London, it's hardly unreasonable that 'his world is London'. I agree with your earlier post though, the Tories do seem to have spent the last 4 years trying to alienate their traditional supporters. With regards cuts to public services I am genuinely shocked at how short peoples memories are. Does no one remember Brynes hilarious note to Laws?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/17/li...

[crankedup]

DJRC said:

crankedup said:

DJRC said:

crankedup said:

DJRC said:

crankedup said:

Do not fret Ladies and Gentlemen, you can still enjoy Pistonheads from any corner of the globe that you care to depart to.The only hope is that Lib-Dems continue in coalition Government and moderate the worst excesses of Labour.

You haven't yet justified what worst excesses of Toryism they have moderated...

Turbo reckons the Lib-Dems HAVE stymied some Tory policy proposals, been a dead weight for them in fact, slowing down their progress in resolving the Countries problems. Looks like disagreement on all fronts.
Politics is subjective with no definitive answers that will satisfy all readers, I'm afraid it would be pointless preparing a list.

TB. The kid hasn't had an original thought ever since he first started quoting other bits of the internet in the original climate thread.

I asked •you• what worst excesses of toryism the lib dems have moderated. CMD isn't very Tory, in fact he is probably far more orange book lib dem than Tory, which is probably why he gets on so well with Cleggers. I suspect the same is true of Gorgeous George which is why he works well with Danny Alexander. Who incidentally I rate as a very competent guy.

We have a very wet centrist govt currently, its very very dovish and whilst I am more than happy to have a govt support mortgage payers than risk averse savers, the hawks do have fair points. For the wrong reasons but fair points. The Tories should have slashed and cut much much harder than they have done, they should have been much more surgical, prexise , detailed and organised in how they approached the defecit. CMD has very little proactive balls though so hates such a thing as sticking your neck out and leading. But I'll give praise and credit for Gorgeous George and I never thought Id say that in 2010. The weak link has come out of the last 4.5 yes with the most credit.

Edited by Big Al. on Monday 29th September 18:54

I would suggest that a Tory Government would not have introduced a lowered threshold to help those on low incomes, quite the opposite. Tories wanted to reduce the higher rate of tax to a lower number than actuality. You yourself suggesting that the Tories should have cut deeper, why haven't they, the steady hand of the Lib-Dems imo. But as is mentioned already, many Lib-Dems pronounce, as I have, but cannot really put many fingers on the actual proposals, the answer lies behind closed discussion doors of cabinet members, you know this. Bickering in public between the coalition would have destroyed any of that public confidence which was/is sorely needed in any Government. That is why the Tories have been moderate and why the coalition has succeeded, or at least stayed the course relatively well.
As for your prognosis on George, I too am pleasantly surprised how authoritative he has grown. And Danny has been the perfect partner, never swaying from the treasury line.

Lets keep in mind, much of what is said is opinion based upon what has or has not been brought to public knowledge.

Oh for the love of...
Is political theory, ideology or even history actually taught anymore or do ppl just pick it up off wiki?
The lower threshold tax thing is actually a very very traditional Tory policy according to ideology, theory and history. But hey, we aren't here to let facts get in the way of anything are we?

The Tories haven't cut deeper because that would!d require CMD A)leading on something and sticking his neck out on something requiring a spine and B) the Tories having a truely detailed plan at a strategic level. We have very much seen over the last 4-5yrs that hasn't been there. Strategically the first two yes were woeful beyond anything Gordon Brown did. Blair, the Dark Prince and Campbell would have eaten them for breakfast.

You seem proud of the idea that the lib dems might have prevented any austerity. This is absurd, there was almost no public spending austerity. There was almost no targeting, almost no planning, almost no detail, almost no precision. It was astoundingly bad politics and bad executive leadership.

What have we ended up with? Half arsed NHS reform and half arsed education reform, armed forces which are now half professional and half militia, a semi broken Union and a relationship with Europe that nobody has a clue where stand.

Piss poor leadership.

Edited by DJRC on Monday 29th September 22:15

Your the Simon Cowell of the internet I presume?

There may have been no austerity in your world, but perhaps ask a wider field of people before making such statements

You mention that I 'seem proud' of the Lib-Dems possibly preventing any austerity. 1, They didn't 2. Lib-Dems have assisted to keep the Country afloat, and for that I am pleased with their performance overall in the round. Lib-Dem policy to reduce tax threshold to 10k, the Tories love to suggest it was them all along, some even believe that to be true. So, as you mention, don't let the facts get in the way. Yes I am well aware that the Tories have a mantra for tax cutting, evidence the higher tax band drop making the well off better off whilst simultaneously cutting the benefits of the disabled, another Tory mantra.

The NHS reform was not in any manifesto, fact is Cameron pronounced 'no top down reforms of the NHS' A pledge which the Tories instantly broke, proclaiming to the electorate that what they are undertaking is not a 'top down reform'. Clearly not, a insult to the electorate is more accurate.

I agree with you regarding the distinct lack of strategic policy planning during the first years of this Parliament. Well certainly it looked and felt that way.

[crankedup]

Derek Smith said:

crankedup said:

Not that I particularly agreed with the policies at the time, and I recall vividly being shafted through sky high interest rates hitting my then mortgage.

One of my staff broke down in tears on Black Wednesday and asked to be let home. I was so worried about her that I refused as I didn't want her left alone. I went to see the welfare officer to see if she had any ideas and she too had broken down on hearing 15%.

In the end I sent my distressed staff member home with my office manager. Me and my sergeant had to stay behind for a couple of hours to catch up with the work.

The following day, problems over I felt, but she, the distressed woman, didn't appear. Her hubby phoned and booked her off sick. I had no idea she was struggling with money. She went to welfare on her return and they helped her out.

One point (not that I'm still bitter about something that happened over 20 years ago): My overtime budget, hardly generous, was all but gone by then (September/October) due to me being understaffed. The welfare officer asked if I could give the woman more overtime. When I mentioned that I'd used the budget up a month before, she mentioned that she'd seen people in my offices often after 5pm - staff left at 4.45, 4.30 Friday. I said that was me. She said that it was outrageous that I was keeping all the overtime to myself.

I had to apologise for my outburst.

Dark days indeed! My own situation was one of bewilderment, my mortgage payments almost doubled within a few years. Two toddlers and wife at home, had to sell up and lost a packet - baby boomers have had it
easy!!

[sidicks]

crankedup said:

There may have been no austerity in your world, but perhaps ask a wider field of people before making such statements

.

Since 2010 how much has public spending reduced...?

Since 2007, working age benefits have increased by more than 22% whereas earnings have grown by just 14%.

It does suggest your 'wider field of people' can say what they like but their opinions may not be supported by the evidence...

[crankedup]

Guybrush said:

MarshPhantom said:

Gargamel said:

Go on - name one Conservative aspiration or vision ?

5 more years of punishing the poor?

What did 13 years of Labour do for them? Keep them in their place.

Can't see that as being wholly correct, didn't the benefits bill rise a tad, wonder who was/is raking in the money.
Seems to me it is 'middle England that has / is taking the punishment, the working middle class on 25k -45k salary. Blair courted the upper class of wealth and brown didn't go out of his way to knock it all back iirc.

[Esseesse]

As a conservative voter (yes I voted for Cameron in 2010) I'm pleased to hear of Labour increasing their lead. My least desired outcome for the next election would be a Tory majority.

[jogon]

[redacted]

[anonymous-user]

[redacted]

[MarshPhantom]

[redacted]

[anonymous-user]

[redacted]

[crankedup]

Elroy Blue said:

A huge part of the issue is that Cameron has alienated and attacked a vast swathe of the very people that used to be firm Conservative voters. Under the veil of 'austerity' (which only applies where they want it), Cameron has conducted a scorched earth Policy on our Emergency services. The Police cuts for Political purposes, the Fire Brigade because they are seen by Tories as 'militant' and the ambulance service just because they can. Certainly most powerfully built contributors to PH won't feel the affect of these cuts as long as they're not involved in anything nasty. But a friends child collapsed this week and the only ambulance available was one from St Johns Ambulance.(This from a 999 call). The well meaning crew didn't know what to do and her life was saved by a neighbour who is a GP. We, despite hanging on by our fingertips ourselves are having to take people to hospital in Police cars because of cuts to the ambulance service.

Cameron's own hatchet man Tom Winsor has said Police cuts have gone too far. Despite this Cameron has stated that Police will suffer similar cuts in the next Parliament. This is public safety we're talking about. It's a desperate situation and the future is bleak.

Speaking for Police, well over 90% of my shift were lifelong Tory voters. After seeing what they've done (and hearing what future plans are), none of us will ever vote for them again. The contempt they demonstrate for the general public is breathtaking. Having said that, I simply couldn't vote to have Milliband as PM. For the first time in my life, I don't see anybody worthy of the journey to the polling station.

I agree with every word, neither could I vote for Labour, certainly not in the current state the Party is in. I usually turn out for Lib-Dems but really the Party will, as much as I hope not, be fourth in the next G.E. I also see no Party that deserves my vote.
So far as cuts are concerned, I just pray that not one of my family is in need of emergency services any time soon.

[Rovinghawk]

[redacted]

[Esseesse]

[redacted]

[crankedup]

sidicks said:

Elroy Blue said:

A huge part of the issue is that Cameron has alienated and attacked a vast swathe of the very people that used to be firm Conservative voters. Under the veil of 'austerity' (which only applies where they want it), Cameron has conducted a scorched earth Policy on our Emergency services. The Police cuts for Political purposes, the Fire Brigade because they are seen by Tories as 'militant' and the ambulance service just because they can. Certainly most powerfully built contributors to PH won't feel the affect of these cuts as long as they're not involved in anything nasty. But a friends child collapsed this week and the only ambulance available was one from St Johns Ambulance.(This from a 999 call). The well meaning crew didn't know what to do and her life was saved by a neighbour who is a GP. We, despite hanging on by our fingertips ourselves are having to take people to hospital in Police cars because of cuts to the ambulance service.

Cameron's own hatchet man Tom Winsor has said Police cuts have gone too far. Despite this Cameron has stated that Police will suffer similar cuts in the next Parliament. This is public safety we're talking about. It's a desperate situation and the future is bleak.

Speaking for Police, well over 90% of my shift were lifelong Tory voters. After seeing what they've done (and hearing what future plans are), none of us will ever vote for them again. The contempt they demonstrate for the general public is breathtaking. Having said that, I simply couldn't vote to have Milliband as PM. For the first time in my life, I don't see anybody worthy of the journey to the polling station.

If only it wasn't so expensive to employ police (due to their pensions) we could employ more of them...

If it were not for public services pensions we might expect to see a hefty slice of pensions fund personnel out of the door.

[Bluebarge]

[redacted]