Osbourne Announces Benefit Changes for manifesto

Osbourne Announces Benefit Changes for manifesto

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Discussion

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
T
Mojocvh said:
"We" have been buying our own debt for some considerable time IIRC....
And you think that's a sustainable solution to fund future borrowing requirements?!
biggrin

Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 30th September 18:07

Gaz413823

55 posts

122 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
As I remember it Callaghan and Thatcher slaughtered the Unions just a few years later so remind us where incomes stand today relative to prices.

I believe I am no more qualified than my parents , work no harder than my parents , but have a higher standard of living , have more exotic holidays and more material possessions than my parents.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Fittster said:
Because they know you're wrong on that point.

"governments with the power to issue their own currency are always solvent, and can afford to buy anything for sale in their domestic unit of account even though they may face inflationary and political constraints"

http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_778.pdf
For only $50, you can buy the outcome of an fully solvent currency issuing government getting it a bit wrong wink

- available on ebay

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
wsurfa said:
For only $50, you can buy the outcome of an fully solvent currency issuing government getting it a bit wrong wink

- available on ebay

Gargamel

14,958 posts

260 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Mojocvh said:
Do you actually believe any of those spoon fed lies?
Which bit is a lie?

The growth rate?
The personal tax allowance
The debt to GDP

?

In my opinion, given the circumstances and the relative performance of other economies, I think this is a decent job?

Crafty_

13,248 posts

199 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
At the risk of taking this slightly off topic, having a bit of a discussion elsewhere regarding the economy generally, someone replied with this:

some bloke said:
The economy was growing during Labour's end days, we also mustn't forget that. The austerity was unnecessary and has been put in the backs of the people who can least afford it. Why did we, as a country, allow a to rate of tax cut and then cut the st out of welfare for people most likely to be at their lowest point in their lives? We did it because divide and conquer is still working and the right wing media made everyone believe Labour caused the world wide financial crisis and are worse than the Tory's, when in fact they are about the same, if not, a bit better. Osbourne for years was promising to match Labour's spending and they would never have regulated the banks into not melting the economy, so I'm not sure where their economic reputation cones from, other than misdirection and ignorance.
The first two sentences are just astounding, does anyone really still believe winky & co were doing a good job ? I struggle to comprehend how to actually explain to this guy the mess we got in to.

A real "and they walk among us" moment.

Edited by Crafty_ on Tuesday 30th September 19:35

Mojocvh

16,837 posts

261 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Gargamel said:
Mojocvh said:
Do you actually believe any of those spoon fed lies?
Which bit is a lie?

The growth rate?
The personal tax allowance
The debt to GDP

?

In my opinion, given the circumstances and the relative performance of other economies, I think this is a decent job?
"We have the highest economic growth in the Western Economies. Unemployment has fallen substantially, the deficit is reducing, our total Debt remains below 80% of GDP "

says WHO?

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Mojocvh said:
"We have the highest economic growth in the Western Economies. Unemployment has fallen substantially, the deficit is reducing, our total Debt remains below 80% of GDP "

says WHO?
George Osborne. Ed Balls hasn't been able to prove him wrong, if such he was.

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Mojocvh said:
"We have the highest economic growth in the Western Economies. Unemployment has fallen substantially, the deficit is reducing, our total Debt remains below 80% of GDP "

says WHO?
I'd go for EU/IMF, ONS/Eurostat, IFS

And you'd go for.....

edh

3,498 posts

268 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Deficit is climbing again.

After suppressing growth for 3 years no wonder we're getting some now.

Long term economic pain is certainly with us

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
edh said:
Deficit is climbing again.

After suppressing growth for 3 years no wonder we're getting some now.

Long term economic pain is certainly with us
Maybe we might be forced into some proper cuts this time.

GavinPearson

5,715 posts

250 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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greygoose said:
GavinPearson said:
If the Conservatives were very smart, they would raise the state pension to cover housing benefit, fuel allowance to one simple figure per pensioner.

They could then eliminate the administration and payment of housing benefit & fuel allowance, cap unemployment at whatever that figure was decided to pay pensioners for and cap child benefit at the current level for all kids born nine months after implementation and capped to a maximum of three kids thereafter.

They could also provide assistance for people to move from high rent areas to value rent areas to eliminate hardship.

If they got their sums right pensioners would love this and it would go a long way to fixing the out of control costs that some people burden the system with.
Why would you want to pay housing benefit to pensioners who do not need it though?
It's a small price to pay to get every single benefit recipient onto one universal capped system, the beneficiaries of which help provide the support to get the measure through. And why don't prudent pensioners who have lived within their means deserve to be financially rewarded to the same level as those who choose to live at a level beyond theirs?

If the Tories had introduced the Community Charge into Westminster and Wandsworth as a pilot, people would have been clamouring for it. But no, like a bunch of complete idiots they introduce it in Scotland, where no matter what they did it would have been considered bad.

pete a

3,799 posts

183 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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Hoofy said:
I'm in two minds. Interesting point made on LBC last night - it's not weighted by area. Someone could happily live on £23k up north but a similar family in South London could be in serious trouble.


Edited by Hoofy on Monday 29th September 16:39
Easy, if you are struggling on benefits living in London or the south east move to a cheaper area with lower rents, then the housing benefit will go further for the free house.


edh

3,498 posts

268 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
pete a said:
Hoofy said:
I'm in two minds. Interesting point made on LBC last night - it's not weighted by area. Someone could happily live on £23k up north but a similar family in South London could be in serious trouble.


Edited by Hoofy on Monday 29th September 16:39
Easy, if you are struggling on benefits living in London or the south east move to a cheaper area with lower rents, then the housing benefit will go further for the free house.
Yes, dead easy when you have no money to fund a move, or a job search (time off work, travel to interviews).
Dead easy when you're trying to keep a min wage zero hour agency job, where extra travel costs might impose a massive marginal tax on work


edh

3,498 posts

268 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
edh said:
Deficit is climbing again.

After suppressing growth for 3 years no wonder we're getting some now.

Long term economic pain is certainly with us
Maybe we might be forced into some proper cuts this time.
Yes - I proposed a £50bn pa cut the other day, but oddly enough you were against it

Hackney

6,811 posts

207 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
edh said:
pete a said:
Hoofy said:
I'm in two minds. Interesting point made on LBC last night - it's not weighted by area. Someone could happily live on £23k up north but a similar family in South London could be in serious trouble.


Edited by Hoofy on Monday 29th September 16:39
Easy, if you are struggling on benefits living in London or the south east move to a cheaper area with lower rents, then the housing benefit will go further for the free house.
Yes, dead easy when you have no money to fund a move, or a job search (time off work, travel to interviews).
Dead easy when you're trying to keep a min wage zero hour agency job, where extra travel costs might impose a massive marginal tax on work
Absolutely, the train fair to go and look for the house / job in the North East would make it near impossible.
Oh wait, there aren't any jobs up there.....so struggle on benefits in London but have a chance of getting a job but do the decent thing, cut the amount of benefits you need by moving somewhere cheap but have no chance of getting a job so stay on benefits for life.

rover 623gsi

5,230 posts

160 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
Nick Robinson:

The prime minister often talks about benefits as if they are paid to people who don't work and paid for by people who do.

The truth is that the benefits freeze the chancellor announced yesterday will affect more than twice as many working families as workless families - seven million compared with three million.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29429981

Gargamel

14,958 posts

260 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
wsurfa said:
Mojocvh said:
"We have the highest economic growth in the Western Economies. Unemployment has fallen substantially, the deficit is reducing, our total Debt remains below 80% of GDP "

says WHO?
I'd go for EU/IMF, ONS/Eurostat, IFS

And you'd go for.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653

Knock yourself out.

As for Unemployment http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27410917

Even the BBC forced to report Unemployment at a five year low

I am not saying it is perfect, there is plenty still wrong. But to cut spending AND achieve growth is not easy. You can look at plenty of other countries who slashed public spending and killed demand in the economy.

At least the Tories are aware there is still a deficit problem, unlike the two Ed's for whom it seems to have totally skipped their minds.

jshell

11,006 posts

204 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
pete a said:
Easy, if you are struggling on benefits living in London or the south east move to a cheaper area with lower rents, then the housing benefit will go further for the free house.
You've got your whole life in front of you. That's a long time to be a tt. Change is possible... thumbup