Benefit Smart Cards to be introduced
Discussion
Baryonyx said:
Instead of coming up with schemes to allow the scroungers new ways to cheat the system, they should cut all dole monies and simply hand out basic rations and clothing from government centres. Take away the incentive to sit on your arse all day, and make being a slacker as miserable as it should be. Seeing the scroungers wearing a government issue garment would also bring in some social shame which would be a good motivator.
It would also be useful to see the able bodied put to work, and they could perhaps be detained for use on large projects, like working on the roads.
I enjoy reading your posts on other threads but here you are wide of the mark.It would also be useful to see the able bodied put to work, and they could perhaps be detained for use on large projects, like working on the roads.
Most people on the dole hate it and want to get off, it's not always an easy thing to do. Handing out basic rations and making people wear some distinctive clothing while you work on government projects!
I've been unemployed and I can tell you it's no fun at all.
SidJames said:
Does anyone remember Luncheon Vouchers?
I got £25 a month in about 1981 and were only redeemable at certain outlets, and for food and soft drinks. Now I know they were paper and we live in an electronic world, but the "market" for these "smartcards" will be exactly the same as "LV's".
Never short of fags and booze, or 75p in the pound on the trading floor.
I heard at one time that some prostitutes used to take LVsI got £25 a month in about 1981 and were only redeemable at certain outlets, and for food and soft drinks. Now I know they were paper and we live in an electronic world, but the "market" for these "smartcards" will be exactly the same as "LV's".
Never short of fags and booze, or 75p in the pound on the trading floor.
mrmr96 said:
lauda said:
Who cares if benefit claimants spend all their money on booze and fags? That way most of it comes back to the Treasury in taxation.
As stated earlier, if they are given money to look after their kids then they should be spending it on toys, food etc, not sky, booze and fags.
I do hope none of you ever befall any illness or accident that leaves your family in need of Government assistance automatically becoming instant drunken, fag addicted, lazy scrounges who have to rely on handouts.
Hooray for happy families...
Funkycoldribena said:
Would ALL gas and electric companies take the card?
What happens when the plumbing bursts in the middle of the night,have you got to find a plumber that will take the card?
What happens when the dog needs the vet?
Will bus companies take the card so people can get to interviews?
Need a suit for interviews,will Matalan take the card?
Kids need uniform that only one shop sells (yes this is true,complete monopoly on badged uniform where I live),will he take the card?
The list is endless,ridiculous idea.Also never get why people moan about unemployed smokers because most of that money goes straight back to the government.
Answers (Guess work here)What happens when the plumbing bursts in the middle of the night,have you got to find a plumber that will take the card?
What happens when the dog needs the vet?
Will bus companies take the card so people can get to interviews?
Need a suit for interviews,will Matalan take the card?
Kids need uniform that only one shop sells (yes this is true,complete monopoly on badged uniform where I live),will he take the card?
The list is endless,ridiculous idea.Also never get why people moan about unemployed smokers because most of that money goes straight back to the government.
1) yes as Goverment could legislate for it
2) I am gussing if your on housing benefit you rent thus landloard pays the cost
3) WTF why would we pay for your pets, want pets get a job
4) as per point 1
5) If Tesco do then so can Matalan
6) this is true but no reson a solution can't be found like when u put a large amount on debit card an bank need to speak to you to Authorise it.
All in all it can work and why should we give people a safty blanket made of larger an benson an hedges.
As for the name I think Smart Consumer Universal Money Cards
Gecko1978 said:
Funkycoldribena said:
Would ALL gas and electric companies take the card?
What happens when the plumbing bursts in the middle of the night,have you got to find a plumber that will take the card?
What happens when the dog needs the vet?
Will bus companies take the card so people can get to interviews?
Need a suit for interviews,will Matalan take the card?
Kids need uniform that only one shop sells (yes this is true,complete monopoly on badged uniform where I live),will he take the card?
The list is endless,ridiculous idea.Also never get why people moan about unemployed smokers because most of that money goes straight back to the government.
Answers (Guess work here)What happens when the plumbing bursts in the middle of the night,have you got to find a plumber that will take the card?
What happens when the dog needs the vet?
Will bus companies take the card so people can get to interviews?
Need a suit for interviews,will Matalan take the card?
Kids need uniform that only one shop sells (yes this is true,complete monopoly on badged uniform where I live),will he take the card?
The list is endless,ridiculous idea.Also never get why people moan about unemployed smokers because most of that money goes straight back to the government.
1) yes as Goverment could legislate for it
2) I am gussing if your on housing benefit you rent thus landloard pays the cost
3) WTF why would we pay for your pets, want pets get a job
4) as per point 1
5) If Tesco do then so can Matalan
6) this is true but no reson a solution can't be found like when u put a large amount on debit card an bank need to speak to you to Authorise it.
All in all it can work and why should we give people a safty blanket made of larger an benson an hedges.
As for the name I think Smart Consumer Universal Money Cards
Funkycoldribena said:
So let's say I'm a 50 year old, worked for 30 years, just made redundant. First thing I've got to do is get rid get of the dog. Then go cap in hand to the school. Next,sell the house because I must be in social housing when unemployed. Then to top it off I've got to hand over my card at the tills in the local supermarket with the acronym S.C.U.M. emblazoned over it. Happy days.
The Human Rights Act does not guarantee you a dog, why is going cap-in-hand to one government agency (a school) worse than going to another (the Jobcentre), if you have a house with a mortgage you will have home insurance, if you don't have a property it's you landlord's problem, if you have neither of those and a fully paid for house you have plenty of equity that could be released to pay for a boiler.Unless you cannot work, there should be something a little bit shameful about benefits.
davepoth said:
Funkycoldribena said:
So let's say I'm a 50 year old, worked for 30 years, just made redundant. First thing I've got to do is get rid get of the dog. Then go cap in hand to the school. Next,sell the house because I must be in social housing when unemployed. Then to top it off I've got to hand over my card at the tills in the local supermarket with the acronym S.C.U.M. emblazoned over it. Happy days.
The Human Rights Act does not guarantee you a dog, why is going cap-in-hand to one government agency (a school) worse than going to another (the Jobcentre), if you have a house with a mortgage you will have home insurance, if you don't have a property it's you landlord's problem, if you have neither of those and a fully paid for house you have plenty of equity that could be released to pay for a boiler.Unless you cannot work, there should be something a little bit shameful about benefits.
wolves_wanderer said:
Apart from, in the case of someone who has worked for 30 years, they aren't going cap in hand to anyone, merely claiming on an insurance policy they've paid for. This inability to distinguish between dolescum and people down on their luck or between jobs is a real feature of this place.
Well if their experience is anything like mine (about 5 months unemployed between various temp jobs before finding permanent employment again) they will know all they can expect from the system is a glorified luncheon voucher if they are the ones who have actually been paying for it. davepoth said:
The Human Rights Act does not guarantee you a dog, why is going cap-in-hand to one government agency (a school) worse than going to another (the Jobcentre), if you have a house with a mortgage you will have home insurance, if you don't have a property it's you landlord's problem, if you have neither of those and a fully paid for house you have plenty of equity that could be released to pay for a boiler.
Unless you cannot work, there should be something a little bit shameful about benefits.
From a quick google it seems around 25% of homes don't have contents insurance and 30% don't have buildings insurance.Unless you cannot work, there should be something a little bit shameful about benefits.
I recall the flooding in the Hull area (was it about 5 years ago? Where a massive proportion of the homes flooded had no insurance and the government stepped in.
Many, many people font have this " Necessity" for various reasons.
Thankyou4calling said:
From a quick google it seems around 25% of homes don't have contents insurance and 30% don't have buildings insurance.
I recall the flooding in the Hull area (was it about 5 years ago? Where a massive proportion of the homes flooded had no insurance and the government stepped in.
Many, many people font have this " Necessity" for various reasons.
... and that's somebody else's problem, then? I recall the flooding in the Hull area (was it about 5 years ago? Where a massive proportion of the homes flooded had no insurance and the government stepped in.
Many, many people font have this " Necessity" for various reasons.
wolves_wanderer said:
Apart from, in the case of someone who has worked for 30 years, they aren't going cap in hand to anyone, merely claiming on an insurance policy they've paid for. This inability to distinguish between dolescum and people down on their luck or between jobs is a real feature of this place.
Many on here seem blissfully unaware that anyone's personal circumstances can be subject to change. Many also seem to think that 'working hard' always results in reward. It's almost childlike in its simplicity.davepoth said:
The Human Rights Act does not guarantee you a dog, why is going cap-in-hand to one government agency (a school) worse than going to another (the Jobcentre), if you have a house with a mortgage you will have home insurance, if you don't have a property it's you landlord's problem, if you have neither of those and a fully paid for house you have plenty of equity that could be released to pay for a boiler.
Unless you cannot work, there should be something a little bit shameful about benefits.
'Something a little bit shameful' that as the 4th? richest Country the MW is below the cost of living wage, the growth of zero hours contracts (may suit some, certainly not all)and short working hours contracts. With these three newish styles of contract available and the pressure on those currently on JSA to get into a job, draconian measures if you do not pass the weekly tests, seems to me that Corporations and Companies should bear some shame also. Its to easy to pass off such contracts as 'it suits people' when the reality is it simply bolsters profit for fat greedy Corporations, whilst their 'employees' need benefits to bolster the meagre pay they do receive.Unless you cannot work, there should be something a little bit shameful about benefits.
Funkycoldribena said:
Gecko1978 said:
Funkycoldribena said:
Would ALL gas and electric companies take the card?
What happens when the plumbing bursts in the middle of the night,have you got to find a plumber that will take the card?
What happens when the dog needs the vet?
Will bus companies take the card so people can get to interviews?
Need a suit for interviews,will Matalan take the card?
Kids need uniform that only one shop sells (yes this is true,complete monopoly on badged uniform where I live),will he take the card?
The list is endless,ridiculous idea.Also never get why people moan about unemployed smokers because most of that money goes straight back to the government.
Answers (Guess work here)What happens when the plumbing bursts in the middle of the night,have you got to find a plumber that will take the card?
What happens when the dog needs the vet?
Will bus companies take the card so people can get to interviews?
Need a suit for interviews,will Matalan take the card?
Kids need uniform that only one shop sells (yes this is true,complete monopoly on badged uniform where I live),will he take the card?
The list is endless,ridiculous idea.Also never get why people moan about unemployed smokers because most of that money goes straight back to the government.
1) yes as Goverment could legislate for it
2) I am gussing if your on housing benefit you rent thus landloard pays the cost
3) WTF why would we pay for your pets, want pets get a job
4) as per point 1
5) If Tesco do then so can Matalan
6) this is true but no reson a solution can't be found like when u put a large amount on debit card an bank need to speak to you to Authorise it.
All in all it can work and why should we give people a safty blanket made of larger an benson an hedges.
As for the name I think Smart Consumer Universal Money Cards
Only issue I see is my proposed name for the cards so lets call them Universal Credit Smart Cards etc so your paying with UCS much like Visa, Solo, Maestro, Amex etc no problems at all. It will have teething problems and some people will buy £50 worth of food stuff an trade them for £20 of beer but then some people will always abuse the system, others will just spend more on good things an less on bad things unless they earn cash themselves.
WTC on you UCS card you buy your food with pay your rent etc, money from your low paid job you can spend on what you like. UCS could also work like a free oyster card as well.
Its an option that has some merits issue seems to be people don't like being told what they can an can't have solution get a job. As the poster who was out of work for 5 months I assume during that time he or she cut back etc while they were on a lower income, got a job an could then spend a bit more freely. thats how welafair is supposed to work a safety net not a life style
Gecko1978 said:
Its an option that has some merits issue seems to be people don't like being told what they can an can't have solution get a job. As the poster who was out of work for 5 months I assume during that time he or she cut back etc while they were on a lower income, got a job an could then spend a bit more freely. thats how welafair is supposed to work a safety net not a life style
Cut back?Contribution based JSA is £72.40 a week. How is this a safety net for a dual income couple when one loses their job? (the typical scenario for those actually paying for it ), even on average earnings you are talking about a fall in net monthly income of nearly £1,500.
Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 1st October 15:06
TTwiggy said:
wolves_wanderer said:
Apart from, in the case of someone who has worked for 30 years, they aren't going cap in hand to anyone, merely claiming on an insurance policy they've paid for. This inability to distinguish between dolescum and people down on their luck or between jobs is a real feature of this place.
Many on here seem blissfully unaware that anyone's personal circumstances can be subject to change. Many also seem to think that 'working hard' always results in reward. It's almost childlike in its simplicity.Negative Creep said:
TTwiggy said:
wolves_wanderer said:
Apart from, in the case of someone who has worked for 30 years, they aren't going cap in hand to anyone, merely claiming on an insurance policy they've paid for. This inability to distinguish between dolescum and people down on their luck or between jobs is a real feature of this place.
Many on here seem blissfully unaware that anyone's personal circumstances can be subject to change. Many also seem to think that 'working hard' always results in reward. It's almost childlike in its simplicity.RichB said:
Negative Creep said:
TTwiggy said:
wolves_wanderer said:
Apart from, in the case of someone who has worked for 30 years, they aren't going cap in hand to anyone, merely claiming on an insurance policy they've paid for. This inability to distinguish between dolescum and people down on their luck or between jobs is a real feature of this place.
Many on here seem blissfully unaware that anyone's personal circumstances can be subject to change. Many also seem to think that 'working hard' always results in reward. It's almost childlike in its simplicity.You only have to look at the current cabinet to see they all went to the same school, are all molded from the same background and are very unlikely to want anyone that doesn't have that background being among them. There is absolutely no reason why the conservatives shouldn't have lots of MP's from working or middle class backgrounds that didn't happen to go to a certain public school. But somehow they are stuffed to the gills with upper middle / upper class farts that are out of touch with a whole swath of the country.
As for smart cards, I dread to think how expensive this is going to end up. But it will be a failure because the infrastructure just isn't currently in place to force people to spend their money on stuff that isn't booze/fags/LCD tv's etc etc. But i bet you ATOS/G4S or one of the many wannabe payment companies are rubbing their grubby mitts in the hope of landing a big fat contract.
Gecko1978 said:
You have worked for 30 years and you have no savings pet insurance etc how likely is that also charitys provide Vet services. Re School unifomrs you by them from a shop not the school, so you hand over you SCUM card and the shop swipes it then gets authorisaton for the transaction, over time she stores find lots of there customers are part of the SCUM scheme so sign up to it just like Tesco or Lidle etc an thus no need to make the call thus no shame for the user.
Only issue I see is my proposed name for the cards so lets call them Universal Credit Smart Cards etc so your paying with UCS much like Visa, Solo, Maestro, Amex etc no problems at all. It will have teething problems and some people will buy £50 worth of food stuff an trade them for £20 of beer but then some people will always abuse the system, others will just spend more on good things an less on bad things unless they earn cash themselves.
WTC on you UCS card you buy your food with pay your rent etc, money from your low paid job you can spend on what you like. UCS could also work like a free oyster card as well.
Its an option that has some merits issue seems to be people don't like being told what they can an can't have solution get a job. As the poster who was out of work for 5 months I assume during that time he or she cut back etc while they were on a lower income, got a job an could then spend a bit more freely. thats how welafair is supposed to work a safety net not a life style
or you could simply pay benefits into the recipients' bank account and let them pay using their debit card - just as happens nowOnly issue I see is my proposed name for the cards so lets call them Universal Credit Smart Cards etc so your paying with UCS much like Visa, Solo, Maestro, Amex etc no problems at all. It will have teething problems and some people will buy £50 worth of food stuff an trade them for £20 of beer but then some people will always abuse the system, others will just spend more on good things an less on bad things unless they earn cash themselves.
WTC on you UCS card you buy your food with pay your rent etc, money from your low paid job you can spend on what you like. UCS could also work like a free oyster card as well.
Its an option that has some merits issue seems to be people don't like being told what they can an can't have solution get a job. As the poster who was out of work for 5 months I assume during that time he or she cut back etc while they were on a lower income, got a job an could then spend a bit more freely. thats how welafair is supposed to work a safety net not a life style
it's beyond me why anybody wants to create a whole new tier of beaucracy and admin that will neither save money nor change anyone's lifestyle
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