Benefit Smart Cards to be introduced

[AA999]

TTwiggy said:

Because if you remove the social aspect of it and just look at the logistics, then based on the history of government schemes it will cost more than it saves and simply line the pockets of a few piss-poor 'preferred' contractors who will be laughing all the way to the bank with taxpayers' money.

I'm guessing its a grasp of an assumption to state that it will cost more than it saves, not having the evidence of it being in operation yet.

Which preferred contractors are you on about?
The ones that make and produce the benefit cards?

[TTwiggy]

AA999 said:

TTwiggy said:

Because if you remove the social aspect of it and just look at the logistics, then based on the history of government schemes it will cost more than it saves and simply line the pockets of a few piss-poor 'preferred' contractors who will be laughing all the way to the bank with taxpayers' money.

I'm guessing its a grasp of an assumption to state that it will cost more than it saves, not having the evidence of it being in operation yet.

Which preferred contractors are you on about?
The ones that make and produce the benefit cards?

Mostly the ones that will allowed to accept it. Call me a mad old cynic, but I reckon it would be limited to the major supermarkets and high street chains - or at least to those who make a 'contribution' to the setup costs. Also, you just know the G4S will be involved somewhere.

[oyster]

lauda said:

Who cares if benefit claimants spend all their money on booze and fags? That way most of it comes back to the Treasury in taxation.

I'd prefer they spent it on food, clothes and books for their children. After all the children haven't chosen their parents lifestyle.

And I'd like at least some of these children to escape poverty and worklessness in the future.

[oyster]

Rovinghawk said:

Collectingbrass said:

Child benefit is not fully means tested like JSA is

Is the cost of means testing greater than the potential saving? I don't know the answer, I'm just pointing out the possibility.

Collectingbrass said:

OAP benefits are not means tested

A similar question applies. I'll also add that if pensions were means tested, fewer would save for their old age & we'd just be preparing a demographic timebomb.

What timebomb?

The generation sitting on massive unearned and untaxed equity in their homes.
The generation taking home comfortable and index-linked pensions that were guaranteed and not at risk from the vagiaries of the investment market.
The generation who are making cruise line companies among the fastest growing and most profitable in the world.

So whilst benefits for the working poor are cut, whilst taxes on the middle and higher earners are ratcheted up and whilst benefits are cut for the unemployed it's reasuring to know that the most comfortable group out there are still getting inflation-busting 'pay' increases year on year.

[AA999]

TTwiggy said:

Mostly the ones that will allowed to accept it. Call me a mad old cynic, but I reckon it would be limited to the major supermarkets and high street chains - or at least to those who make a 'contribution' to the setup costs. Also, you just know the G4S will be involved somewhere.

I think you may have a cynical viewpoint and that is fair enough given the past history of government ideas that have flopped in the past.... but I do think this is a step in the right direction.
I've always thought that giving out cash to some that will just spend it on booze, nights out, holidays, fags, gambling, drugs, sky TV, x-boxes etc. etc. was never what the taxpayer expects as responsible spending.
Any method to stop this is welcomed by me.

Like has been said on many of these threads, the benefit system is and should always be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice.


When it comes to where the benefit cards will be valid, I suspect they won't be limited to just a few government friends, that would be a sure shot in the foot of any party that attempts to roll that out.
I suspect they will have wide useage but with restrictions on certain types of goods.
ie. I guess one could go in to any supermarket and buy fruit and vegetables, but not to buy fags or booze as the card will not accept those products (via barcode identification or other).

[mph1977]

TTwiggy said:

AA999 said:

How are people being 'punished' exactly?

The way I view it that there is undoubtedly a percentage that are irresponsible with benefits paid in cash. This is a 'punishment' to the taxpayer if you wish to use this word.
Having a system that goes along way to eradicate the issue (to whatever extent - as it has not been tried and tested in the UK as yet), is a bonus for the many I would have thought.....even those who already spend responsibly, as there would be no real change of spending habit.

Because if you remove the social aspect of it and just look at the logistics, then based on the history of government schemes it will cost more than it saves and simply line the pockets of a few piss-poor 'preferred' contractors who will be laughing all the way to the bank with taxpayers' money.

pre-paid debit card infrastructure is in place although not the extent it's being used in ome places e.g. in the US where some emplyers charge an admin fee for pay to sent to a current account equivalent rather than put on a prepaid debit card - they are gettig nkick backs from)

Retailers with EPOS ( electronic point of sale - i.e. computerised tills)have the ability to include / exclude / vary accrual rates for loyalty points based on class of product or SKU/UPC ( the individual product stock code - the numbers that make up the bar code) as it stands ( which is why you don;t get nectar points / clubcard points / divi on medicines, baby milk etc and why you accrue fewer clubcard points for fuel purchase that others as a couple of examples.

from a retailer point of view the hardest hit would be corner shops who haven;t invested in EPOS if EPOS was requirement to be able to accept the card and the fruit and veg end of the market trader wold - as many of the fixed markets meat and fish is basically lock up stalls who could have EPOS etc if they wished

[peterperkins]

I like the card idea for certain groups.
A clear distinction needs to be made between the type of people who get the new card and those who don't.

John who has been working for 10 years but the firm has gone under and he has just gone on the dole does not get the card, he gets the equivalent benefits paid how he wants.

Gary who has never worked in his life and is 26 but apparently able bodied gets the card.
Registered drug addicts and alcoholics get the card.

People who develop bad backs when given the card go before a medical panel who review all such cases.

[steveT350C]