A superb Speech and Vow by Cameron well above expectations

[Welshbeef]

edh said:

Nope, the 15% lowest paid are already below the current tax threshold. Gives money to everyone else earning below £100k

Well it will be even more - do you know what % of people earn £12,499? If so it will clearly be more than 15% of the workforce that's only a good thing - far better than bringing in a 10% lower rate instead give 0% far simpler

[edh]

Welshbeef said:

edh said:

Nope, the 15% lowest paid are already below the current tax threshold. Gives money to everyone else earning below £100k

Well it will be even more - do you know what % of people earn £12,499? If so it will clearly be more than 15% of the workforce that's only a good thing - far better than bringing in a 10% lower rate instead give 0% far simpler

Not if it's sold as "lifting the low paid out of poverty" etc... Immaterial as it won't happen.

[ClaphamGT3]

RichB said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

There was almost no ideology - it was more like a budget speech in many ways - just a long list of commitments should they win the next election

The Central theme was "get the economy right and you'll be able to have a better job, a better home, better healthcare, better education for your kids and more money in your pocket"

I've voted Tory all my life but explain to me why he has not already done any of this? Doesn't have to wait until he's, possibly, re-elected.

Because it will need to be economically sustainable to do so, which is only just becoming the case after the recession

[basherX]

celicawrc said:

Still no mention of an EU referendum, cutting immigration, welfare cuts, foreign aid etc etc. Just pathetic little jibes from him and Boris towards UKIP.

Well sorry Dave, your blind arrogance and accute deafness regarding the EU issue is going to cost you the next election imo.

Did you actually listen to the speech?

In other news, some reasonable points here from that man Hannan: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100...

I'm not so naive as to believe that the tax cuts will come unless the deficit is substantially reduced first but I am clear that, when you look past all the noise, the choice at the next election is, as it always has been in my life, between a Labour led government or a Tory one. Only one of those parties is heading in the right direction imho. Milliband as PM? No thanks.

[smn159]

ClaphamGT3 said:

There was almost no ideology

It's all ideology IMO. The financial crisis presented him with an opportunity to advance the 'Let's roll back the State' ideology, which he's continuing with the 7bn odd in (potential future) tax cuts, paid for by.... more "rolling back of the state".

[ClaphamGT3]

celicawrc said:

Still no mention of an EU referendum, cutting immigration, welfare cuts, foreign aid etc etc. Just pathetic little jibes from him and Boris towards UKIP.

Well sorry Dave, your blind arrogance and accute deafness regarding the EU issue is going to cost you the next election imo.

I have to assume that you're either being ironic or that you haven't listened to the speech; there was a clear commitment to an in/out referendum on Europe, a clear commitment to repeal the HRA, a clear commitment to cut immigration from within the EU and significant welfare cuts. These weren't just said once; they were recurring commitments throughout the conference.

[basherX]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I have to assume that you're either being ironic or that you haven't listened to the speech; there was a clear commitment to an in/out referendum on Europe, a clear commitment to repeal the HRA, a clear commitment to cut immigration from within the EU and significant welfare cuts. These weren't just said once; they were recurring commitments throughout the conference.

Quite

[BlackLabel]

Politicians should concentrate on delivering existing pledges before they start promising new ones.

But I do agree that it was a well delivered speech.

[Hackney]

ClaphamGT3 said:

celicawrc said:

Still no mention of an EU referendum, cutting immigration, welfare cuts, foreign aid etc etc. Just pathetic little jibes from him and Boris towards UKIP.

Well sorry Dave, your blind arrogance and accute deafness regarding the EU issue is going to cost you the next election imo.

I have to assume that you're either being ironic or that you haven't listened to the speech; there was a clear commitment to an in/out referendum on Europe, a clear commitment to repeal the HRA, a clear commitment to cut immigration from within the EU and significant welfare cuts. These weren't just said once; they were recurring commitments throughout the conference.

Didn't he make all those clear commitments before the last election?

[ClaphamGT3]

Hackney said:

Didn't he make all those clear commitments before the last election?

No

[VinceFox]

I'd not trust that to post a letter without opening it, stealing anything inside, subcontracting the delivery to a fkwit mate, sending it to the wrong place then charging me extra for my own good.

He can fk off. Then when he gets back, he can fk off again, taking that other fking fool that forgets his speeches with him.

WE ARE WHAT WE DO.

[jogon]

VinceFox said:

I'd not trust that to post a letter without opening it, stealing anything inside, subcontracting the delivery to a fkwit mate, sending it to the wrong place then charging me extra for my own good.

He can fk off. Then when he gets back, he can fk off again, taking that other fking fool that forgets his speeches with him.

WE ARE WHAT WE DO.

Well put given the language used at the recent tory conference they should understand that loud and clear.

Edited by jogon on Wednesday 1st October 21:12

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

edh said:

Nope, the 15% lowest paid are already below the current tax threshold. Gives money to everyone else earning below £100k

Well it will be even more - do you know what % of people earn £12,499? If so it will clearly be more than 15% of the workforce that's only a good thing - far better than bringing in a 10% lower rate instead give 0% far simpler

It's more than 90% of the full - time working population, but it's a bad thing because it wont remove income tax from those the currently don't pay it. That seems to be the crux of ehd's 'arguement' across at least 2 threads

[Mermaid]

The promises will make the headlines, but no guarantee that the promises will ever be delivered. The headlines will be. Anyone remember else he promised & his radical vision for the future?

50k in 2020 will also be worth a lot less.

Spent too much talking about EM, "me or him" - desperation & cornering people.

Not a vote winning speech IMO.

[Mojocvh]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I was in the hall and it was an astonishingly well delivered speech.

There was almost no ideology - it was more like a budget speech in many ways - just a long list of commitments should they win the next election

The Central theme was "get the economy right and you'll be able to have a better job, a better home, better healthcare, better education for your kids and more money in your pocket"

Yep, all he has to do now is convince the populace that he both means it and will standby his word.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ2n7oMcSi0

Your having a laugh..........

[smn159]

Mermaid said:

The promises will make the headlines, but no guarantee that the promises will ever be delivered. The headlines will be. Anyone remember else he promised & his radical vision for the future?

50k in 2020 will also be worth a lot less.

Spent too much talking about EM, "me or him" - desperation & cornering people.

Not a vote winning speech IMO.

He started off as a reformer but this sounds very much like an appeal to the base. I think that he's miscalculated by moving to the right to chase UKIP votes, but I guess that the internal politics of the party gave him little choice.

[Welshbeef]

wsurfa said:

It's more than 90% of the full - time working population, but it's a bad thing because it wont remove income tax from those the currently don't pay it. That seems to be the crux of ehd's 'arguement' across at least 2 threads

Ok so ehd seems to think remove all tax and then give them a top up on the salary they earn. Suddenly those who earn a bit more actually are poorer than those on less income so they think why bother I'll have some of that

[edh]

Welshbeef said:

wsurfa said:

It's more than 90% of the full - time working population, but it's a bad thing because it wont remove income tax from those the currently don't pay it. That seems to be the crux of ehd's 'arguement' across at least 2 threads

Ok so ehd seems to think remove all tax and then give them a top up on the salary they earn. Suddenly those who earn a bit more actually are poorer than those on less income so they think why bother I'll have some of that

No. You've completely misrepresented my position.

All I'm saying is don't dress it up as looking after the lowest paid and "lifting them out of poverty". It isn't and doesn't. Sell it for what it is, a proposed tax cut, 5years from now, that will apply to earners between the 16th and 97th percentile.

There may be better ways of spending (or saving) £12+bn a year though.

[Murph7355]

sjn2004 said:

…
ps just to remind you guys, he's been in since 2010 and all he's done is cut Child benefit for some medium/high earners (sending the excess to Eastern European kids) oh and and let me think, oh yes, gay marriage is now legal. Now he promises gold!

There are obviously no guarantees, but remember that he's not in power on his own. And I think the watered down austerity measures are in no small part down to the Lib Dems.

What I'd like to see of all parties is proper commitment to their policies and manifestos with dates and consequences for not making them.

The one thing he cannot and must not do should he get in is blame Labour any more. That ship, whilst justified for the last 5yrs IMO, has now sailed.

Personally I think they've made a reasonable fist of the economy and he's right to focus on it. They haven't cut far enough IMO. But maybe another term would see that happening.

Can't see them getting voted in though.

[alock]

Hackney said:

Didn't he make all those clear commitments before the last election?

Based on a Tory covernment. We have a coalition government. It would be impossible for each party to delivery contradictory policies.