A superb Speech and Vow by Cameron well above expectations
Discussion
edh said:
Not if it's sold as "lifting the low paid out of poverty" etc... Immaterial as it won't happen.
Amazingly I agree with edh. It won't happen. In all likelihood you will have a Labour government who will keep their boot on the throat of the poor working class and just like the last time they were in power for 13 years, keep them trapped and dependent on the state. As for the rest of his drivel about non tax payers not benefiting from tax cuts, well, he's got to cling to something bad about raising the tax threshold.BrassMan said:
VinceFox said:
He can f
k off. Then when he gets back, he can fk off again, taking that other fking fool that forgets his speeches with him.
k off. Then when he gets back, he can fk off again, taking that other fking fool that forgets his speeches with him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU
Clapham? PH is heaving with top-down class warrior sentiments. See underclass, scum, scroungers and most posters banging on about class warriors.
this place makes me laugh. A virtually constant stream of abuse at those with less/no money and as soon as someone has a pop at "the rich" you can't move for accusations of chippyness and envy.
Seems a fair bit of push back about it not being important to take people out of taxation - why is this? Surely its superior to a 10% threshold if you are arguing the toss between two parties non?
Imagine an objective of a £20k 0% income tax threshold..... Challenging for sure high set objective possibly beyond possible to deliver but a statement of what you want to do help the low paid (I consider low paid to be anyone under £26k UK average salary)
Imagine an objective of a £20k 0% income tax threshold..... Challenging for sure high set objective possibly beyond possible to deliver but a statement of what you want to do help the low paid (I consider low paid to be anyone under £26k UK average salary)
It was a speech for the stupid and gullible, where will he take the cash from to finance the tax cuts? why does he not make it fair and cut VAT instead. If you vote for me again I'll do this and that, housing, NHS,tax cuts, do it now, why wait, show you mean it.........oh, you don't mean it.
worked for thatcher i suppose,
worked for thatcher i suppose,
iphonedyou said:
killingjoker said:
Massive fail on that front and i won't hold my breath.
Only once (ever in four years) have i heard a bit of real emotion when he spoke about his son. And although i really hate him and what he stands for i understand that.
Other than that all i ever hear is some minted up silver spooned fkwit, born into privilage, who thinks it is his 'god given' right to be PM. Someone who has never had to actually work for a living. The man is an utter .
I don't think, of the two of you, Cameron is the ****. Get that chip on your shoulder seen to. So he has more money than you - boo fOnly once (ever in four years) have i heard a bit of real emotion when he spoke about his son. And although i really hate him and what he stands for i understand that.
Other than that all i ever hear is some minted up silver spooned f
kwit, born into privilage, who thinks it is his 'god given' right to be PM. Someone who has never had to actually work for a living. The man is an utter . king hoo, fella.As for the last 4 and something years. They started with a plan, that plan had a whole host of external dependencies (predominantly strengthening performance of Global economies) over which they had no control. Those external forces did not perform as and when required and hence the plan has taken much longer to implement. It is a scenario that exists in just about every walk of like. Sadly the impatient and bigoted refuse to acknowledge such fact and it becomes just another excuse to stick the boot in......... What is laudable, we are exiting the first term and the economy is looking significantly healthier than when they started and is now one of the fastest growing economies in the G7 which, given it was the biggest faller in the G7 in Labour's last 18 months, make that quite a decent achievement.
jmorgan said:
powerstroke said:
CMD Blah blah Blair!!!! Actions speak louder than words .
Cast iron and all that!!!
If they get voted back in, I expect a lot of back pedalling speeches a few years down the line. Going to be interesting on Question Time in 2017.Cast iron and all that!!!
Or do I need to buy a hat?
World economy
Unforeseen problems
Labours fault
Etc
sjn2004 said:
…and you guys fell for it, hook,line and sinker LOL. The guy is a serial liar, why are his own MP's jumping ship?
ps just to remind you guys, he's been in since 2010 and all he's done is cut Child benefit for some medium/high earners (sending the excess to Eastern European kids) oh and and let me think, oh yes, gay marriage is now legal. Now he promises gold!
I'm pretty sure he was going to do something about the economy as well......and that seems to be doing well.ps just to remind you guys, he's been in since 2010 and all he's done is cut Child benefit for some medium/high earners (sending the excess to Eastern European kids) oh and and let me think, oh yes, gay marriage is now legal. Now he promises gold!
Labour were advocating spending even more money they didn't have.
ClaphamGT3 said:
I would tend to agree. What he has not done -and desperately needs to do - is to connect to the conservative blue collar vote. He needs to show that he can respond to their concerns around their jobs, their incomes, their hopes for their children and that he can give them a better quality of life than Labour.
What he also needs to do is connect to what can be called the ethnic vote. UKIP are criticised for this but the Cons are almost in the same boat when you look at the data. fblm said:
edh said:
Not if it's sold as "lifting the low paid out of poverty" etc... Immaterial as it won't happen.
Amazingly I agree with edh. It won't happen. In all likelihood you will have a Labour government who will keep their boot on the throat of the poor working class and just like the last time they were in power for 13 years, keep them trapped and dependent on the state. As for the rest of his drivel about non tax payers not benefiting from tax cuts, well, he's got to cling to something bad about raising the tax threshold.An NI cut would have been better targeted if the objective was to help the low paid. But it wasn't the objective, even if it was dressed up that way.
http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/10/01/tax-cut...
as for the rest of your comment..
sjn2004 said:
Mario149 said:
killingjoker said:
Other than that all i ever hear is some minted up silver spooned fkwit, born into privilage, who thinks it is his 'god given' right to be PM. Someone who has never had to actually work for a living.
O/T, but he probably works longer hours and harder than 95% or more of people on PH, so he may not actually *have* to work for a living, but he does work hard (as have all our PMs, it's not that DC is necessarily harder working than his predecessors) . There are *much* easier and less stressful ways of earning £140k a year (or more importantly, the £84k it gets you after tax) with a much better quality of personal life. You couldn't tempt me slightly with the PM's job for £140k a year, let alone £67k for a boggo MP's job. kwit, born into privilage, who thinks it is his 'god given' right to be PM. Someone who has never had to actually work for a living. ks as he probably works much harder than almost all of us here. And even if he does go on to make millions after being PM, that's irrelevant, and frankly people bringing it up smacks of envy. Again, there are much easier ways to go and make say £5m than going through a career in politics and trying to get made prime minister, all so you can make a few quid after. Much easier just to become the CEO of a successful startup. At the place I work, the CEO is by my calcs either the same age as me (32), or 1 year younger depending on if he took a gap year. He actually looks about 25 but that's just an amusing by the by. I don't think he's properly raking it in at the mo, but if he continues to be as successful in his 30s as he has done in his late 20s, he'll have a few million to his name by the time he's 50smn159 said:
It's all ideology IMO. The financial crisis presented him with an opportunity to advance the 'Let's roll back the State' ideology, which he's continuing with the 7bn odd in (potential future) tax cuts, paid for by.... more "rolling back of the state".
Sadly overlooked comment, given its content! Everything that comes out of Dave's mouth is ideology; he can't help it, because that's just the way he thinks. Tory supporters who think the same do not see it, but anyone who thinks differently can spot it a mile off.I see the NHS still being undermined.. the foundations sold off to private investors on the sly, so all we see is the crumbling exterior and think it can't support itself.
I still see tax loopholes allowing those who can afford the set-up to divert profits offshore to the tune of BILLIONS, while we - the people - are told that the only way out of this mess (that both Tory parties created) is austerity.
Austerity in itself is a Tory ideology. We do not need it. We need investment in the areas that give a strong, supported economy.
Adrian W said:
It was a speech for the stupid and gullible, where will he take the cash from to finance the tax cuts? why does he not make it fair and cut VAT instead. If you vote for me again I'll do this and that, housing, NHS,tax cuts, do it now, why wait, show you mean it.........oh, you don't mean it.
worked for thatcher i suppose,
EXACTLY. Where does the money come from? I doubt anyone posting on here knows the answer.worked for thatcher i suppose,
NormalWisdom said:
As for the last 4 and something years. They started with a plan, that plan had a whole host of external dependencies (predominantly strengthening performance of Global economies) over which they had no control. Those external forces did not perform as and when required and hence the plan has taken much longer to implement. It is a scenario that exists in just about every walk of like. Sadly the impatient and bigoted refuse to acknowledge such fact and it becomes just another excuse to stick the boot in......... What is laudable, we are exiting the first term and the economy is looking significantly healthier than when they started and is now one of the fastest growing economies in the G7 which, given it was the biggest faller in the G7 in Labour's last 18 months, make that quite a decent achievement.
Excuses. Don't apologise for them. Austerity hasn't worked and it won't work, no matter how long they keep it up for. Austerity is an ideology from the Thatcher era, and is based on a completely outdated and inaccurate method of economic projection. Osbourne used outdated fiscal multipliers that are heavily biased against state spending to make his projections, and guess what? IT DIDN'T WORK. The Tories have managed to lift the economy to barely scrape pre-crisis levels by the exact same methods that caused the crisis in the first place! A race to the bottom on taxes for the rich, and woefully poor regulation of the housing & financial markets. These are imaginary economic contributors.. they do not contribute to the actual well-being of the people, only to line the pockets at the top. In reality, state spending on infrastructure and critical services proves to be much more beneficial to the state than slashing budgets and selling them off - especially when you realise that the companies they often get sold off to are either offshore, or funnel their profits offshore and do not give back in taxes, as we were told they would!
I could go on about this for hours!
PS - for those that missed it.. not only is this funny, it's incredibly accurate!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU
edh said:
Nope, the 15% lowest paid are already below the current tax threshold. Gives money to everyone else earning below £100k
Those would be the people called 'target voters' then? Sounds like a good idea to me. Those earning over £100k are largely Conservative voters already and those addicted to hand outs from the Labour free money machine are hardly likely to vote for any party that questions their entitlements, so it's the hard pressed middle income earners he's trying to attract. Let's hope it works.
CamMoreRon said:
smn159 said:
It's all ideology IMO. The financial crisis presented him with an opportunity to advance the 'Let's roll back the State' ideology, which he's continuing with the 7bn odd in (potential future) tax cuts, paid for by.... more "rolling back of the state".
Sadly overlooked comment, given its content! Everything that comes out of Dave's mouth is ideology; he can't help it, because that's just the way he thinks. Tory supporters who think the same do not see it, but anyone who thinks differently can spot it a mile off.I see the NHS still being undermined.. the foundations sold off to private investors on the sly, so all we see is the crumbling exterior and think it can't support itself.
I still see tax loopholes allowing those who can afford the set-up to divert profits offshore to the tune of BILLIONS, while we - the people - are told that the only way out of this mess (that both Tory parties created) is austerity.
Austerity in itself is a Tory ideology. We do not need it. We need investment in the areas that give a strong, supported economy.
Adrian W said:
It was a speech for the stupid and gullible, where will he take the cash from to finance the tax cuts? why does he not make it fair and cut VAT instead. If you vote for me again I'll do this and that, housing, NHS,tax cuts, do it now, why wait, show you mean it.........oh, you don't mean it.
worked for thatcher i suppose,
EXACTLY. Where does the money come from? I doubt anyone posting on here knows the answer.worked for thatcher i suppose,
NormalWisdom said:
As for the last 4 and something years. They started with a plan, that plan had a whole host of external dependencies (predominantly strengthening performance of Global economies) over which they had no control. Those external forces did not perform as and when required and hence the plan has taken much longer to implement. It is a scenario that exists in just about every walk of like. Sadly the impatient and bigoted refuse to acknowledge such fact and it becomes just another excuse to stick the boot in......... What is laudable, we are exiting the first term and the economy is looking significantly healthier than when they started and is now one of the fastest growing economies in the G7 which, given it was the biggest faller in the G7 in Labour's last 18 months, make that quite a decent achievement.
Excuses. Don't apologise for them. Austerity hasn't worked and it won't work, no matter how long they keep it up for. Austerity is an ideology from the Thatcher era, and is based on a completely outdated and inaccurate method of economic projection. Osbourne used outdated fiscal multipliers that are heavily biased against state spending to make his projections, and guess what? IT DIDN'T WORK. The Tories have managed to lift the economy to barely scrape pre-crisis levels by the exact same methods that caused the crisis in the first place! A race to the bottom on taxes for the rich, and woefully poor regulation of the housing & financial markets. These are imaginary economic contributors.. they do not contribute to the actual well-being of the people, only to line the pockets at the top. In reality, state spending on infrastructure and critical services proves to be much more beneficial to the state than slashing budgets and selling them off - especially when you realise that the companies they often get sold off to are either offshore, or funnel their profits offshore and do not give back in taxes, as we were told they would!
I could go on about this for hours!
PS - for those that missed it.. not only is this funny, it's incredibly accurate!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU
In reality, tax cuts will be funded if and when we stop spending money on non-essential public services and, once we have paid down the deficit, accept the principle that money is better in the pockets of those who earned it than in the treasury's coffers. Socialists hate this of course, because it weans individuals off their dependency on the State.
The only thing I heard at conference with which I fundamentally and ideologically disagree is The Chancellor's notion of running a surplus. The state has no business running a surplus; it isn't their money to save for a rainy day
CamMoreRon said:
Excuses. Don't apologise for them. Austerity hasn't worked and it won't work, no matter how long they keep it up for. Austerity is an ideology from the Thatcher era, and is based on a completely outdated and inaccurate method of economic projection. Osbourne used outdated fiscal multipliers that are heavily biased against state spending to make his projections, and guess what? IT DIDN'T WORK.
Yes, of course you are right.What we need to the problem of excessive government spending is to increase government spending...
As the son of a miner, born and bred in the People's Republic of South Yorkshire, I have to agree that it was a fine speech.
I've never voted Tory in my life, historically Labour, recently UKIP.
I had planned to vote UKIP at the next GE, but in my area you could put a red tie on a chimp and it would get elected.
However I like the cut of Dave's Jib.
Since I don't fancy waking up next to Red Ed, I guess I'll be getting my blue tie out.
I've never voted Tory in my life, historically Labour, recently UKIP.
I had planned to vote UKIP at the next GE, but in my area you could put a red tie on a chimp and it would get elected.
However I like the cut of Dave's Jib.
Since I don't fancy waking up next to Red Ed, I guess I'll be getting my blue tie out.
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