UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
Guam said:
This is the view of Chris Leslie from a Grauniad article
"Labour will get the current budget into surplus and national debt falling as soon as possible in the next parliament," he will say, echoing Balls's pledge from last year's party conference.
Not much different from the kind of sweeping statements UKIP get hammered for, how exactly are Labour planning to achieve this?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/29/la...
I agree that that is baffling hyperbole from a party that is traditionally tax 'n' spend (and, IIRC, has said that that is how it would have pulled the country out of recession - not quite the same thing as cutting the deficit). "Labour will get the current budget into surplus and national debt falling as soon as possible in the next parliament," he will say, echoing Balls's pledge from last year's party conference.
Not much different from the kind of sweeping statements UKIP get hammered for, how exactly are Labour planning to achieve this?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/29/la...
But as I keep saying, the fact that Party A makes pie-in-the-sky promises should not be a reason for Party B to do likewise; nor should either party's promises escape careful scrutiny just because they are both doing the same thing.
Greg66 said:
brenflys777 said:
I'd put Winston in the same category as Labours Diane Abbot and the conservatives Heseltine and Ken Clarke.
Heseltine and Clarke. Really? You know who they were, right? MP for 35 years, Secretary of State for Defence, President of the Board of Trade, Deputy PM, successful businessman in his own right; MP for 44 years, Chancellor, Home Secretary, Lord Chancellor, Education Secretary, Health Secretary. Hell, even Diane Abbot manage to get elected as an MP.
This joker is a former hairdresser, letting agent and mechanic, who couldn't even get elected as a councillor. Although he had managed to retain his deposit. Once. In many attempts.
Seriously, you need to get a grip on reality.
I'm aware all three have had successful careers, what they do and say now makes them comparable to Winston's IMO.
brenflys777 said:
Winston is IMO a poor representative for the party in general. Diane Abbott, Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine have all labelled UKIP and it's supporters to be ignorant, bigoted and racist. All three seem to be of similar ability to Winston in representing a reasoned thoughtful position.
I'm aware all three have had successful careers, what they do and say now makes them comparable to Winston's IMO.
Agreed.I'm aware all three have had successful careers, what they do and say now makes them comparable to Winston's IMO.
Still, it's politics, a deeply serious matter where you're only as good as your last soundbite.
2013BRM said:
longblackcoat said:
Guam said:
how exactly are Labour planning to achieve this?
That's for the Labour - The Future thread. Except that there's no point is having one on PH.Point is, UKIP have come in with some pretty strong claims, and they have no track record. You might argue that Labour and the Conservatives don't have great track records, which is your right, but at least ththey have one. Each of those parties has achieved tangible things in their history that they can point to and demonstrate that yes, they have some credibility
UKIP haven't, hence the need to prove that their more outlandish claims are actually based on sane achievable policies rather than just being a wish list.
As for having a track record that is credible merely because it exists has got to be a bad thing because it shows that they have not learned from their cock ups
Esseesse said:
mrpurple said:
Esseesse said:
Randy Winkman said:
I think Nihal is right - it just adds to the idea that UKIP is racist. Can they really not see that?
It treads close to the PC line in this PC obsessed road, indeed. But AFAIK UKIP did not commission this song? It appears to be created unprompted by a UKIP supporter who happens to be an ex DJ (I don't know him, I'm probably too young).Personally I don't find it racist, in the same way I don't find people trying to speak with a French accent racist, or (was it) Vettel joking about Nigel Mansells (IIRC) accent at some award ceremony.
UKIP may not have commissioned it but they are promoting it (I have an email from UKIP central). It was performed at the conference to entertain the troops and that is where it should have stayed IMHO....nothing like giving your detractors ammunition to fire at you but then again it is said all publicity is good publicity.
eta and putting Winston up to defend it is even less well thought out than doing the song in the 1st place.
Edited by mrpurple on Tuesday 21st October 11:30
Also agree about the all publicity is good publicity point. The only thing detractors will possibly do is attack it from a thinly veiled racist point of view, which because it's plainly not to most, will most likely play into UKIP's hands. The best thing the would be detractors could do would be to ignore it.
I'd suggest that the best thing UKIP could have done was ignore it, not the detractors.
It's also st but let's not even touch on having a musical debate about it!
voyds9 said:
If Mike Reid singing in a Caribbean accent is racist.
Then should we also be debating black people playing Elgar.
Wow! You actually said that.Then should we also be debating black people playing Elgar.
We're back to the days of Godfrey Bloom being defended over his Bongo-Bongo Land comments.
For the avoidance of doubt, I neither think all UKIP politicians and members are racist or that most of the UKIP-sympathising posters on this thread are. I am,however, surprised that any UKIP supporter defends this.
Guam said:
This is the view of Chris Leslie from a Grauniad article
"Labour will get the current budget into surplus and national debt falling as soon as possible in the next parliament," he will say, echoing Balls's pledge from last year's party conference.
Not much different from the kind of sweeping statements UKIP get hammered for, how exactly are Labour planning to achieve this?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/29/la...
The answer to that is that Labour are not planning it at all. They know there is no chance of it whatsoever and don't care, but they think there are sufficient voters around who will be taken in."Labour will get the current budget into surplus and national debt falling as soon as possible in the next parliament," he will say, echoing Balls's pledge from last year's party conference.
Not much different from the kind of sweeping statements UKIP get hammered for, how exactly are Labour planning to achieve this?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/29/la...
Greg66 said:
Heseltine and Clarke. Really? You know who they were, right? MP for 35 years, Secretary of State for Defence, President of the Board of Trade, Deputy PM, successful businessman in his own right; MP for 44 years, Chancellor, Home Secretary, Lord Chancellor, Education Secretary, Health Secretary.
Hell, even Diane Abbot manage to get elected as an MP.
This joker is a former hairdresser, letting agent and mechanic, who couldn't even get elected as a councillor. Although he had managed to retain his deposit. Once. In many attempts.
Seriously, you need to get a grip on reality.
That huge list of government jobs is exactly the reason that people turn to UKIP. I'm sick of career politicians. Hell, even Diane Abbot manage to get elected as an MP.
This joker is a former hairdresser, letting agent and mechanic, who couldn't even get elected as a councillor. Although he had managed to retain his deposit. Once. In many attempts.
Seriously, you need to get a grip on reality.
Edited by Timsta on Tuesday 21st October 12:56
Guam said:
Zod said:
The answer to that is that Labour are not planning it at all. They know there is no chance of it whatsoever and don't care, but they think there are sufficient voters around who will be taken in.
So the same Criticism leveled at the UKIP lot, now would you like to look at the Osborne links I posted and comment on those given that was reality rather than just wish lists?Zod said:
voyds9 said:
If Mike Reid singing in a Caribbean accent is racist.
Then should we also be debating black people playing Elgar.
Wow! You actually said that.Then should we also be debating black people playing Elgar.
And while we are on the subject perhaps the British should stop using the Americanism 'wow'.
voyds9 said:
Zod said:
voyds9 said:
If Mike Reid singing in a Caribbean accent is racist.
Then should we also be debating black people playing Elgar.
Wow! You actually said that.Then should we also be debating black people playing Elgar.
And while we are on the subject perhaps the British should stop using the Americanism 'wow'.
Guam said:
Good points well made. Its entirely good that this stuff comes to the fore IMO. You have to wonder how well briefed Barroso was before he opened his mouth.Guam said:
He's right on every point. The thing about Barroso is that he is an ex-communist from a country that was run by a military dictatorship until he was 18. Portugal has relevance only though it's membership of the EU and even then it has precious little. He just doesn't understand a country like ours.Wombat3 said:
Guam said:
Good points well made. Its entirely good that this stuff comes to the fore IMO. You have to wonder how well briefed Barroso was before he opened his mouth.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff