UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[tangerine_sedge]

Mrr T said:

While I would always argue correlation is not causation. You suggest the immigration is caused by the economic growth, how about the idea the immigration has caused the economic growth.

You mean having access to a cheap, young, highly skilled, prosperish and enthusiastic workforce (who can speak your language fluently) can help Britains economy? Who would have thought it?

[turbobloke]

tangerine_sedge said:

Mrr T said:

While I would always argue correlation is not causation. You suggest the immigration is caused by the economic growth, how about the idea the immigration has caused the economic growth.

You mean having access to a cheap, young, highly skilled, prosperish and enthusiastic workforce (who can speak your language fluently) can help Britains economy? Who would have thought it?

If only! Between skilled immigrants from e.g. Commonwealth countries and unskilled benefits seekers & NHS tourists from weak EU economies, which has easier access to settling and (not) working here?

[mrpurple]

Mrr T said:

I think you are giving far to much credit to UKIP. UKIP support has not been above 10/12% at general elections. I do not expect it will be much higher in 2015.

That's a matter of opinion........as for your expectations - I don't think the last GE is a good guide to the next but time will tell I suppose.

[mrpurple]

steveT350C said:

It's all very civil on here today. best behave myself.

Continuing with civility, Farage wishing Barroso a happy retirement

http://www.ukipmeps.org/articles_959_Farage-Thank-...

Like him or not you have to admire his style.

[gpo746]

tangerine_sedge said:

You mean having access to a cheap, young, nubile Latvian and Romanian hookers that change every 2 weeks (who can't speak your language but they are great at other things ) can help the greasy pimps bank balance Who would have thought it?

Fixed that for you

[Mrr T]

turbobloke said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Mrr T said:

While I would always argue correlation is not causation. You suggest the immigration is caused by the economic growth, how about the idea the immigration has caused the economic growth.

You mean having access to a cheap, young, highly skilled, prosperish and enthusiastic workforce (who can speak your language fluently) can help Britains economy? Who would have thought it?

If only! Between skilled immigrants from e.g. Commonwealth countries and unskilled benefits seekers & NHS tourists from weak EU economies, which has easier access to settling and (not) working here?

I have to guess your a kipper.

So you have clear evidence that visa immigrants from "commonwealth countries" are highly educated. I believe the largest numbers in this category actually come on marriage visa.

Compared to low skilled immigrants from the EU, Because of cause the EU does not have any skilled workers or any universities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for health/benefit tourist from the EU you clearly have no idea how the system works.

Please do not let reality effect your beliefs.

[Scuffers]

Mrr T said:

So you have clear evidence that visa immigrants from "commonwealth countries" are highly educated. I believe the largest numbers in this category actually come on marriage visa.

no figures to back this up with, but I have a feeling the NHS has more medical staff from commonwealth backgrounds than from the EU...

[Zod]

Scuffers said:

Mrr T said:

So you have clear evidence that visa immigrants from "commonwealth countries" are highly educated. I believe the largest numbers in this category actually come on marriage visa.

no figures to back this up with, but I have a feeling the NHS has more medical staff from commonwealth backgrounds than from the EU...

You are right, just. I (or rather Google) can help you there:



The 11.4% of Unknowns is a little odd though!

[Scuffers]

yes, and that's all perm staff, would like to see the figures for qualified medial staff...

[Wombat3]

Mrr T said:

Wombat3 said:

Its also fair to say that the UKIP of today is much more co-ordinated than it was even 2 years ago. 6 years ago the comment about fruitcakes & swivel-eyed loons was also not without some foundation (IMO).

UKIP is also only partly responsible for this debate coming to the fore (IMO). I think this day has been coming for a while & the irony is that the situation has been accelerated precisely because of the success of the UK (some would say despite being in the EU!) because that is the cause of the immigration issue.

If this place was a no hope, no jobs backwater then clearly we would not be looking at the immigration numbers we are.

While I would always argue correlation is not causation. You suggest the immigration is caused by the economic growth, how about the idea the immigration has caused the economic growth.

Chicken & egg

Some of both is the real answer - there was a piece on the news the other night of a farmer in Lincolnshire arguing he'd be stuffed without some of the EU labour he is able to hire to pick fruit.

The reality is that we have the balance wrong because clearly there are a) Migrants taking the piss (re benefits & healthcare) and b) our infrastructure (schools, health service etc) is not geared up to dealing with them all.

Ergo, we need to be able to control it.

The obvious answer is to convert "free movement of people" into "free movement of labour with a job to go to". If you have work you can come in, if you don't you can't.

There are numerous and obvious problems with trying to operate that system though.

[Zod]

Here is a non-linkable Grauniad graphic. Not clear whether it is just permanent staff.

[don4l]

Daniel Hannan has an excellent riposte to Barosso's recent outburst.

Daniel Hannan said:

So we've got zero influence, eh? Outside the EU we’d be a second-rate country, would we?

The easy reaction is outrage. How dare José Manuel Barroso, the outgoing head of the Brussels civil service, hector Britain, the nation that, by helping liberate Europe from fascism, made the wretched EU possible in the first place?

Read the rest here of this superb article here...

[Zod]

don4l said:

Daniel Hannan has an excellent riposte to Barosso's recent outburst.

Daniel Hannan said:

So we've got zero influence, eh? Outside the EU we’d be a second-rate country, would we?

The easy reaction is outrage. How dare José Manuel Barroso, the outgoing head of the Brussels civil service, hector Britain, the nation that, by helping liberate Europe from fascism, made the wretched EU possible in the first place?

Read the rest here of this superb article here...

Posted by Guam at lunchtime to general approval by the pro- and anti-UKIP camps on the thread.

[Scuffers]

Zod said:

Here is a non-linkable Grauniad graphic. Not clear whether it is just permanent staff.

Kind of nails the point about clinical staff though does it not?

[FiF]

mrpurple said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

It does open an interesting question, one to which I have no idea of the answer.

What would happen if the UK said, we like it in the EU mostly, but we want to control immigration, benefits to immigrants or whatever.

We are not going to follow those parts of the EU treaties anymore. Parliament cannot be constrained by its predecessors. We acknowledge that other countries can alter their arrangements reciprocally with ours.

EU - you can either
1) Accept that
2) Kick us out (and lose our contributions, let alone whether there is a legal option for that)
3) Fine us, in which case we will deduct the fines from our contributions, and/or ignore them

What would the EU do in those circumstances?

I am not proposing this, and I know it wouldn't satisfy some on here, but as a hypothetical question, any idea?

Google button not working?

That's a bit unfair response frankly.

I don't know the answer to that either and asked pretty much the same question quite some time ago.

There have been lots of fines on Italy. So if not paid what are they going to do, invade? Not a totally serious point admittedly.

[don4l]

Zod said:

don4l said:

Daniel Hannan has an excellent riposte to Barosso's recent outburst.

Daniel Hannan said:

So we've got zero influence, eh? Outside the EU we’d be a second-rate country, would we?

The easy reaction is outrage. How dare José Manuel Barroso, the outgoing head of the Brussels civil service, hector Britain, the nation that, by helping liberate Europe from fascism, made the wretched EU possible in the first place?

Read the rest here of this superb article here...

Posted by Guam at lunchtime to general approval by the pro- and anti-UKIP camps on the thread.

Apologies.

I've had a busy day and I hadn't checked the thread.

[Zod]

EU fines are a waste of time. What is the point of fining bankrupt Greece, for instance? It's the Commission's fault that it turned a blind eye to Greece's blatant fiddling of the Euro entry criteria.

[sjn2004]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29706994

UKIP rescue the EEFD, wonder what scam the eurocrats will come up with next to silence the dissenters?

[mrpurple]

Zod said:

EU fines are a waste of time. What is the point of fining bankrupt Greece, for instance? It's the Commission's fault that it turned a blind eye to Greece's blatant fiddling of the Euro entry criteria.

I looked into this during my studies about 15 yrs ago..... IIRC Italy were top of the league by a country mile..fines levied and unpaid.

[steveT350C]

http://businessforbritain.org/2014/09/25/change-or...

"The document sets out the key challenges facing the European Union today, the urgent need for reform of the UK’s relationship with the EU, and how, in the absence of substantive reform, Britain would have nothing to fear from a future outside the European Union."

I have not yet read the document that this article refers to, but will do this evening.

Cut to the main course here..

http://businessforbritain.org/changeorgo.pdf

Edited by steveT350C on Tuesday 21st October 18:35

Edited by steveT350C on Tuesday 21st October 18:36