UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

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Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Guam said:
Do the words initial offer, or letter of intent mean anything to you, one has to set parameters for the deal prior to entering into negotiations, unless the outline proposal is accepted as the premise of the negotiations what are you going to negotiate.

If the other party basically says get stuffed there can be no negotiation as that will be illegal and therefore outside of our remit then you cant negotiate anything. Unless you hold a negotiation to establish what you are going to negotiate.

Most corporate deals are agreed in broad principle (concept) before the parties waste their time in sitting around a table to negotiate, if anyone doesn't know that then they haven't done any major deal making imho.

Put more simply "are you interested in selling your business"? Straight no means no negotiation smile
Plenty of deals fail because the parties cannot agree major terms, even after signing initial heads of terms.

BGARK

5,493 posts

245 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Zod said:
he negotiation hasn't started!
Negotiate with who exactly, a non-entity that shouldnt even exist. Its like negotiating with cancer!

Wombat3

11,969 posts

205 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Guam said:
Wombat3 said:
No, YOU don't believe it, but then that's your prerogative (though some may argue it suits a narrow view smile ).
Not just me I am afraid Wombat, if it was just me then there would be nothing to discuss now would there, whilst I may be in a minority , I equally well may not be, the recent poll results suggest that the views I have on some of these issues are shared by a good number of folk.
'nuff said.

Poll posted yesterday suggests you are indeed in a minority in terms of not even wanting to try & negotiate with the EU.

JBF50

28 posts

114 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Ukip's polarising effect: support for staying in the EU hits 23-year high
A new poll by Ipsos MORI finds that 56% of Britons would vote to stay in the EU - the highest level of support since 1991.
Hopefully we have an EU referendum and it turns to a referendum on UKIP too where the anti-UKIP vote turns out and finishes off this rag-tag racist Party once and for all, they offer nothing constructive to UK politics, they and the Eurosceptic Tories will certainly lose the referendum, I for one cannot wait.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/...

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Guam said:
Zod said:
Plenty of deals fail because the parties cannot agree major terms, even after signing initial heads of terms.
Not usually if both parties have been clear on expectations at the initial discussion, in my experience failure results because one party or the other always held an unreasonable view and didn't declare it (like putting a price forward the other side can live with, subject to due diligence of course), if they have got the key and essential principles agreed, then the minutiae shouldn't prove a deal breaker, if it does then in my experience the thing was never truly serious and one party or the other was looking for an out.

As you are aware not all agendas are always on the table in such circumstances
Oh, I'll bow to your greater experience of corporate transactions.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
JBF50 said:
Ukip's polarising effect: support for staying in the EU hits 23-year high
A new poll by Ipsos MORI finds that 56% of Britons would vote to stay in the EU - the highest level of support since 1991.
Hopefully we have an EU referendum and it turns to a referendum on UKIP too where the anti-UKIP vote turns out and finishes off this rag-tag racist Party once and for all, they offer nothing constructive to UK politics, they and the Eurosceptic Tories will certainly lose the referendum, I for one cannot wait.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/...
The referendum won't happen if Miliband is PM.

Mr_B

10,480 posts

242 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Mr_B said:
Zod said:
Mr_B said:
Zod said:
brenflys777 said:
Outgoing Baroso says no change.

Incoming Juncker says.....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29731120

Nil points Dave.

Have you ever negotiated a corporate deal? or a litigation settlement? Do you think that before sitting down to negotiate the parties say that they are going to make concessions?

This is meaningless posturing on both sides.
Now say which you think is more likely, Cameron getting a meaningful and working opt out of some kind on controlling EU immigration, or all the rest saying no change ? If the UK gets anything, then France will want the same, then Germany and then you have a very unhappy EU. There will be no change on basic freedom of movement.
The French and Germans both want change. They are just letting us be the bad guys. There is every chance of a change.
Define a little bit what 'change' is please. The treaty of Rome and the free movement of peoples ? Change could just mean what both Tory and Labour were talking about yesterday and changing what they see a pull factors for immigrants to the UK in the shape of changing things like payments to children not in the country and benefits and health etc etc.
It was odd to hear both Labour and Tory taking that exact line yesterday claiming those types of changes would lead to a form of control and reduction in numbers. I found it most odd as both Labour and Tory claimed those factors had no such bearing on immigration and Ukip were nasty racists to suggest as such not so long ago. How things change eh ?
Was keen to hear your thoughts on what change involves. I'll assume its as vague and stalling as Cameron's ideas.

JBF50

28 posts

114 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Zod said:
The referendum won't happen if Miliband is PM.
True,I am assuming Labour won't win the GE or form a coalition, just my hunch.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Zod said:
JBF50 said:
Ukip's polarising effect: support for staying in the EU hits 23-year high
A new poll by Ipsos MORI finds that 56% of Britons would vote to stay in the EU - the highest level of support since 1991.
Hopefully we have an EU referendum and it turns to a referendum on UKIP too where the anti-UKIP vote turns out and finishes off this rag-tag racist Party once and for all, they offer nothing constructive to UK politics, they and the Eurosceptic Tories will certainly lose the referendum, I for one cannot wait.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/...
The referendum won't happen if Miliband is PM.
Good, and I hope he is. We need a referendum delivered from someone genuinely wanting to leave the EU.

Wombat3

11,969 posts

205 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
Zod said:
JBF50 said:
Ukip's polarising effect: support for staying in the EU hits 23-year high
A new poll by Ipsos MORI finds that 56% of Britons would vote to stay in the EU - the highest level of support since 1991.
Hopefully we have an EU referendum and it turns to a referendum on UKIP too where the anti-UKIP vote turns out and finishes off this rag-tag racist Party once and for all, they offer nothing constructive to UK politics, they and the Eurosceptic Tories will certainly lose the referendum, I for one cannot wait.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/...
The referendum won't happen if Miliband is PM.
Good, and I hope he is. We need a referendum delivered from someone genuinely wanting to leave the EU.
No we just need a referendum.

Yours is a statement along the lines of "Democracy is OK as long as I win"

If UKIP is not able to persuade the general population of the merits of leaving then I guess we won't be doing that. That's democracy. If you don't agree with the result, that's your problem.


Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
Zod said:
JBF50 said:
Ukip's polarising effect: support for staying in the EU hits 23-year high
A new poll by Ipsos MORI finds that 56% of Britons would vote to stay in the EU - the highest level of support since 1991.
Hopefully we have an EU referendum and it turns to a referendum on UKIP too where the anti-UKIP vote turns out and finishes off this rag-tag racist Party once and for all, they offer nothing constructive to UK politics, they and the Eurosceptic Tories will certainly lose the referendum, I for one cannot wait.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/...
The referendum won't happen if Miliband is PM.
Good, and I hope he is. We need a referendum delivered from someone genuinely wanting to leave the EU.
So, in 2020, if we're lucky or 2025. Great!

Morningside

24,110 posts

228 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
The EU want another £1Bn from us... http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/526193/EU-politic...
I have an odd feeling the The Express will support UKIP come next years election.

JBF50

28 posts

114 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Wombat3 said:
No we just need a referendum.

Yours is a statement along the lines of "Democracy is OK as long as I win"

If UKIP is not able to persuade the general population of the merits of leaving then I guess we won't be doing that. That's democracy. If you don't agree with the result, that's your problem.
Exactly, lets have a referendum and put this ridiculous UKIP mob to sleep for good, they are just The National Front in disguise.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Wombat3 said:
Esseesse said:
Zod said:
JBF50 said:
Ukip's polarising effect: support for staying in the EU hits 23-year high
A new poll by Ipsos MORI finds that 56% of Britons would vote to stay in the EU - the highest level of support since 1991.
Hopefully we have an EU referendum and it turns to a referendum on UKIP too where the anti-UKIP vote turns out and finishes off this rag-tag racist Party once and for all, they offer nothing constructive to UK politics, they and the Eurosceptic Tories will certainly lose the referendum, I for one cannot wait.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/...
The referendum won't happen if Miliband is PM.
Good, and I hope he is. We need a referendum delivered from someone genuinely wanting to leave the EU.
No we just need a referendum.

Yours is a statement along the lines of "Democracy is OK as long as I win"

If UKIP is not able to persuade the general population of the merits of leaving then I guess we won't be doing that. That's democracy. If you don't agree with the result, that's your problem.
We've done this before, and no it's not.

Edit: I'll paraphrase Fif from previously who put it better than I would have...

Your comment is cynical manipulation of my comment to make a snide remark. My personal preference is for result X, if timing A made that result more likely then I would prefer that to timing B. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

Edited by Esseesse on Thursday 23 October 11:52

don4l

10,058 posts

175 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
JBF50 said:
Ukip's polarising effect: support for staying in the EU hits 23-year high
A new poll by Ipsos MORI finds that 56% of Britons would vote to stay in the EU - the highest level of support since 1991.
Hopefully we have an EU referendum and it turns to a referendum on UKIP too where the anti-UKIP vote turns out and finishes off this rag-tag racist Party once and for all, they offer nothing constructive to UK politics, they and the Eurosceptic Tories will certainly lose the referendum, I for one cannot wait.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/...
It looks as if the 56% figure only applies if we got major concessions. Without major changes, it seems that only 38% would stay in.

Wombat3

11,969 posts

205 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Morningside said:
Esseesse said:
The EU want another £1Bn from us... http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/526193/EU-politic...
I have an odd feeling the The Express will support UKIP come next years election.
Always worth having a look at readsership figures:

Express averages about 480K
Mail is 1.7M

Over 1/3 of the Express's readership is also nearly dead anyway!

15-24 25-34 35-44 45-54 55-64 65+
GB (%) 15 19 18 16 13 19
DE (%) 9 11 15 18 16 31

Source: MORI aggregates 2004. Base: c10,000 interviews with GB residents 15+

(i.e. figures 10 years old & as we all well know, the younger generation doesn't buy newspapers anyway - its all on the Web)


Edited by Wombat3 on Thursday 23 October 12:06

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Guam said:
Zod said:
Oh, I'll bow to your greater experience of corporate transactions.
You cant resist can you, always a sideways swipe when we disagree, my view differs from yours based on my experiences is all, rather like Park lane. smile
I am trying to avoid making a comment that could be seen as patronising. Your primary job is running your business and presumably you sometimes have to negotiate deals. I'm sure you are good at it, Mine is advising on the law, negotiating deals and directing due diligence. I strongly suspect I have seen more negotiations in a wider range of businesses than you have.

Wombat3

11,969 posts

205 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
JBF50 said:
Wombat3 said:
No we just need a referendum.

Yours is a statement along the lines of "Democracy is OK as long as I win"

If UKIP is not able to persuade the general population of the merits of leaving then I guess we won't be doing that. That's democracy. If you don't agree with the result, that's your problem.
Exactly, lets have a referendum and put this ridiculous UKIP mob to sleep for good, they are just The National Front in disguise.
No, they arn't that, that's a bit silly to be honest. What they are (IMO) is people who have run out of patience . They will argue that's justifiable, I'd argue its wholly unhelpful and unlikely to deliver anything approaching an optimum end result. Children throwing toys around seldom get what they want.

Wombat3

11,969 posts

205 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Guam said:
Wombat3 said:
'nuff said.

Poll posted yesterday suggests you are indeed in a minority in terms of not even wanting to try & negotiate with the EU.
You love to make stuff up don't you, I never said I didn't want negotiation, I have maintained it is pointless and there is no point in going through a fruitless endeavor, try and cite me correctly if you would. I base my view on the public posturing of the EU itself, what do you base your view on "Faith"?

smile
DO make your mind up

"Pointless" ergo no point in doing it?

Most people tend to want to avoid doing things when they think its pointless - or does that not apply to you in this case?

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Wombat3 said:
JBF50 said:
Wombat3 said:
No we just need a referendum.

Yours is a statement along the lines of "Democracy is OK as long as I win"

If UKIP is not able to persuade the general population of the merits of leaving then I guess we won't be doing that. That's democracy. If you don't agree with the result, that's your problem.
Exactly, lets have a referendum and put this ridiculous UKIP mob to sleep for good, they are just The National Front in disguise.
No, they arn't that, that's a bit silly to be honest. What they are (IMO) is people who have run out of patience . They will argue that's justifiable, I'd argue its wholly unhelpful and unlikely to deliver anything approaching an optimum end result. Children throwing toys around seldom get what they want.
Without UKIP, the EU and immigration (issue for some) would never have been mentioned by the main parties.
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