UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
There was a story on the Fail website yesterday that Channel Four are planning a docu-drama about what life would be like under a UKIP government. I'm sure that will be fair and balanced.
The public mood as far as I can see, is that if this were to be another stitch up job it will drive even more voters into the arms of UKIP. Unless there were be a similar documentary about how life will be like under the Greens or the Labour Party or even the Conservatives.
Somehow I doubt it that will happen.
The public mood as far as I can see, is that if this were to be another stitch up job it will drive even more voters into the arms of UKIP. Unless there were be a similar documentary about how life will be like under the Greens or the Labour Party or even the Conservatives.
Somehow I doubt it that will happen.
brenflys777 said:
Idiot? Nice.
No need for capitals or slow shouty keyboard mashing either.
Cameron hasn't even blamed his lack of progress with negotiations on the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems have also publicly said that the EU needs reform, Clegg even did so in his 'read the small print' debate with Farage.
If Cameron was serious about reform he would have something to show for it, a list of things he wants to achieve or a list of his absolute requirements. Cameron has had four years as PM and he has cooperated with ever closure EU union and he achieved no reform. Asking for another two years so that he can start negotiations relies on panicked attempts to suggest Labour would be even worse. It's sad and cynical IMO.
So stop positing rubbish. The LD might say the EU needs reform but a renegotiation was not in the coalition agreement nor was a in/out referendum. So any renegotiation would need LD approval and I am sure its been discussed but the LD have no interest. I also think any renegotiation needs a commitment for a referendum for our EU colleague to take the matter seriously and its clear the LD will not agree to that.No need for capitals or slow shouty keyboard mashing either.
Cameron hasn't even blamed his lack of progress with negotiations on the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems have also publicly said that the EU needs reform, Clegg even did so in his 'read the small print' debate with Farage.
If Cameron was serious about reform he would have something to show for it, a list of things he wants to achieve or a list of his absolute requirements. Cameron has had four years as PM and he has cooperated with ever closure EU union and he achieved no reform. Asking for another two years so that he can start negotiations relies on panicked attempts to suggest Labour would be even worse. It's sad and cynical IMO.
Esseesse said:
Indeed and if it was important to you and you operated on principles rather than your career then you'd dissolve parliament and campaign for re-election on on the back of what you believe. The fact that none of this sort of thing happens is just one factor that means that people do not trust his promises and will vote for UKIP instead.
Great idea resign and have another election on a matter most people do not care about. Great way to get a Labour government.Mrr T said:
Esseesse said:
Indeed and if it was important to you and you operated on principles rather than your career then you'd dissolve parliament and campaign for re-election on on the back of what you believe. The fact that none of this sort of thing happens is just one factor that means that people do not trust his promises and will vote for UKIP instead.
Great idea resign and have another election on a matter most people do not care about. Great way to get a Labour government.When asked to list their top three most important issues facing the country, a YouGov poll found that 56% of people consider immigration to be the most serious. This beat the economy into second place.
Article on the same YouGov poll also said:
Cameron said EU arrivals would now only be able to claim Jobseeker's Allowance or child benefit for a maximum of three months, a reduction from the current six-month period.
Effectively two of the key UKIP issues are top of the list for voters.Mrr T said:
brenflys777 said:
Cameron has said he'll give us a referendum after a negotiation. He's had four years to start a negotiation - he can show us nothing. He says we'll get a referendum - again nothing accomplished in deed, just words.
Why do idiots keep posting things like this????Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.
THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.
THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.
Those pesky LibDems seem to have stopped Cameron from keeping any of his promises. If their aim was to convince me that the man is a pathological liar, then they have been 100% successful.
Mrr T said:
So stop positing rubbish. The LD might say the EU needs reform but a renegotiation was not in the coalition agreement nor was a in/out referendum. So any renegotiation would need LD approval and I am sure its been discussed but the LD have no interest. I also think any renegotiation needs a commitment for a referendum for our EU colleague to take the matter seriously and its clear the LD will not agree to that.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just intolerant to other opinions. Nothing I've said was incorrect, it doesn't rely on the kind of wild guesswork or faith you ascribe when you say I'm sure it's been discussed. 'Idiots', 'rubbish' makes you sound petulant and childish in my opinion.My original point stands.The cons haven't blamed the lib Dems for the lack of reform. Both parties publicly state they favour reform. In four years Cameron has achieved ever closer union and no reform. Cameron is reliant on faith in his abilities rather than evidence of them. He won't even put on any meat on the bones of this promise, he is just a reed in the wind.
Mrr T said:
Scuffers said:
lame excuse...
nothing stopping them introducing legislation without the libs, like a private members bill etc.
You mean like they did with the referendum bill which got talked out by Labour and the LD in the HOL.nothing stopping them introducing legislation without the libs, like a private members bill etc.
Scuffers said:
Mrr T said:
Scuffers said:
lame excuse...
nothing stopping them introducing legislation without the libs, like a private members bill etc.
You mean like they did with the referendum bill which got talked out by Labour and the LD in the HOL.nothing stopping them introducing legislation without the libs, like a private members bill etc.
jogon said:
Really? Bigger than the Internet and the social change that has brought about. Imo the EU is archaic and no loner required in this modern globally connected and trading world.
How come the rest of the globe are getting on just fine without such a collective political union, it seems only the EU are in a steady rate of decline with little hope of improvement on the horizon.
Hmm.. the rest of the world is getting on just fine.. I must have imagined all those stories of Middle-Eastern turmoil.. of financial crisis spreading from USA to ROW.. How come the rest of the globe are getting on just fine without such a collective political union, it seems only the EU are in a steady rate of decline with little hope of improvement on the horizon.
I would argue that Nationalism is the last thing we need in a global, interconnected world. Maybe it's because of our recent past as an empire nation that we're so terrified of relinquishing control to a higher authority, but provided the people behind that power have the best interests of their country's people and the region as a whole in mind - i.e. are democratically elected - I can't see the problem.
turbobloke said:
Mrr T said:
Esseesse said:
Indeed and if it was important to you and you operated on principles rather than your career then you'd dissolve parliament and campaign for re-election on on the back of what you believe. The fact that none of this sort of thing happens is just one factor that means that people do not trust his promises and will vote for UKIP instead.
Great idea resign and have another election on a matter most people do not care about. Great way to get a Labour government.When asked to list their top three most important issues facing the country, a YouGov poll found that 56% of people consider immigration to be the most serious. This beat the economy into second place.
turbobloke said:
Article on the same YouGov poll also said:
Cameron said EU arrivals would now only be able to claim Jobseeker's Allowance or child benefit for a maximum of three months, a reduction from the current six-month period.
Effectively two of the key UKIP issues are top of the list for voters.Mrr T said:
So UKIP have the same policy as CMD. So vote Tory???
As pointed out many many times before, there have been many many instances where Camerons actions have in no way reflected what he says. Or he's resorted to a cop-out of an excuse. Or resorted to what amounts to bare-faced lies about what is achievable from within the EU. Or he's claimed success where there has been nothing of the sort (EU budget). I'd rather vote for the real thing.Esseesse said:
Convert said:
Will UKIP (12% last time) overcome Labour (51%) in the election for the new PCC for South Yorkshire?
If so it will be a massive blow for Minigland.
When do we get to find out the results?If so it will be a massive blow for Minigland.
https://www.barnsley.gov.uk/services/council-and-d...
CamMoreRon said:
Hmm.. the rest of the world is getting on just fine.. I must have imagined all those stories of Middle-Eastern turmoil.. of financial crisis spreading from USA to ROW..
I would argue that Nationalism is the last thing we need in a global, interconnected world. Maybe it's because of our recent past as an empire nation that we're so terrified of relinquishing control to a higher authority, but provided the people behind that power have the best interests of their country's people and the region as a whole in mind - i.e. are democratically elected - I can't see the problem.
So the answer to the turmoil in the Middle East, Financial crisis and mass unemployment is we should all pull down our borders and become one big jolly state is it? Your living on a different planet. I would argue that Nationalism is the last thing we need in a global, interconnected world. Maybe it's because of our recent past as an empire nation that we're so terrified of relinquishing control to a higher authority, but provided the people behind that power have the best interests of their country's people and the region as a whole in mind - i.e. are democratically elected - I can't see the problem.
And when was the European Commission ever democratically elected its full of failed politicians from the member states.
jogon said:
CamMoreRon said:
Hmm.. the rest of the world is getting on just fine.. I must have imagined all those stories of Middle-Eastern turmoil.. of financial crisis spreading from USA to ROW..
I would argue that Nationalism is the last thing we need in a global, interconnected world. Maybe it's because of our recent past as an empire nation that we're so terrified of relinquishing control to a higher authority, but provided the people behind that power have the best interests of their country's people and the region as a whole in mind - i.e. are democratically elected - I can't see the problem.
So the answer to the turmoil in the Middle East, Financial crisis and mass unemployment is we should all pull down our borders and become one big jolly state is it? Your living on a different planet. I would argue that Nationalism is the last thing we need in a global, interconnected world. Maybe it's because of our recent past as an empire nation that we're so terrified of relinquishing control to a higher authority, but provided the people behind that power have the best interests of their country's people and the region as a whole in mind - i.e. are democratically elected - I can't see the problem.
And when was the European Commission ever democratically elected its full of failed politicians from the member states.
CamMoreRon said:
Hmm.. the rest of the world is getting on just fine.. I must have imagined all those stories of Middle-Eastern turmoil.. of financial crisis spreading from USA to ROW..
I would argue that Nationalism is the last thing we need in a global, interconnected world. Maybe it's because of our recent past as an empire nation that we're so terrified of relinquishing control to a higher authority, but provided the people behind that power have the best interests of their country's people and the region as a whole in mind - i.e. are democratically elected - I can't see the problem.
But they haven't and they aren't. Look at the current batch of Commissioners. They couldn't give a sI would argue that Nationalism is the last thing we need in a global, interconnected world. Maybe it's because of our recent past as an empire nation that we're so terrified of relinquishing control to a higher authority, but provided the people behind that power have the best interests of their country's people and the region as a whole in mind - i.e. are democratically elected - I can't see the problem.
t about European citizens, and they have been nowhere near a democratic election. brenflys777 said:
Mrr T said:
So stop positing rubbish. The LD might say the EU needs reform but a renegotiation was not in the coalition agreement nor was a in/out referendum. So any renegotiation would need LD approval and I am sure its been discussed but the LD have no interest. I also think any renegotiation needs a commitment for a referendum for our EU colleague to take the matter seriously and its clear the LD will not agree to that.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just intolerant to other opinions. Nothing I've said was incorrect, it doesn't rely on the kind of wild guesswork or faith you ascribe when you say I'm sure it's been discussed. 'Idiots', 'rubbish' makes you sound petulant and childish in my opinion.My original point stands.The cons haven't blamed the lib Dems for the lack of reform. Both parties publicly state they favour reform. In four years Cameron has achieved ever closer union and no reform. Cameron is reliant on faith in his abilities rather than evidence of them. He won't even put on any meat on the bones of this promise, he is just a reed in the wind.
Regardless of what the LibDems say some approach could have been made. Even though they also say reform is needed. Without any indication of what reform these are simply empty bluster to shut down the debate or sound as if they appreciate the concerns and sort of agree.
It's as Guam summed it up yesterday. If as a floating voter two big issues are the lack of democracy and the direction taken by the EU, followed by a rejection of the AGW/MMCC malarkey just which party represents those views?
Either one votes on best fit to personal views/ or vote tribally / or not vote. There are no other options.
FiF said:
brenflys777 said:
Mrr T said:
So stop positing rubbish. The LD might say the EU needs reform but a renegotiation was not in the coalition agreement nor was a in/out referendum. So any renegotiation would need LD approval and I am sure its been discussed but the LD have no interest. I also think any renegotiation needs a commitment for a referendum for our EU colleague to take the matter seriously and its clear the LD will not agree to that.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just intolerant to other opinions. Nothing I've said was incorrect, it doesn't rely on the kind of wild guesswork or faith you ascribe when you say I'm sure it's been discussed. 'Idiots', 'rubbish' makes you sound petulant and childish in my opinion.My original point stands.The cons haven't blamed the lib Dems for the lack of reform. Both parties publicly state they favour reform. In four years Cameron has achieved ever closer union and no reform. Cameron is reliant on faith in his abilities rather than evidence of them. He won't even put on any meat on the bones of this promise, he is just a reed in the wind.
Regardless of what the LibDems say some approach could have been made. Even though they also say reform is needed. Without any indication of what reform these are simply empty bluster to shut down the debate or sound as if they appreciate the concerns and sort of agree.
It's as Guam summed it up yesterday. If as a floating voter two big issues are the lack of democracy and the direction taken by the EU, followed by a rejection of the AGW/MMCC malarkey just which party represents those views?
Either one votes on best fit to personal views/ or vote tribally / or not vote. There are no other options.
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