UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[Esseesse]

Scuffers said:

Transmitter Man said:

I've posed this question previously but never received an answer.

Out of 650 MP's just how many seats would UKIP need to take to have an overall majority in Westminster in a GE?

Phil

is this a trick question?

• any* party needs 326 to hold a majority.

Does he mean biggest minority?

[XJ Flyer]

DJRC said:

XJ Flyer said:

Greg66 said:

NicD said:

This looks good!


Switzerland votes on ending mass immigration
The controversial Ecopop movement wants to slash the numbers entering the coutry from 80,000 a year to just 16,000

why cant we have a vote?



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swi...

Sounds like a brilliant idea!

Except the Swiss rejected the proposal: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30267042

Decisively.

74% against the proposal.

Happy with a similar outcome here?

Firstly it would be interesting to find out if the immigrant communities were also allowed to vote in the referendum being that turkeys don't generally vote for christmas.While it seems obvious that the cheap labour pro immigration pro EU agenda there is obviously happy to selectively accept that vote while not being so keen to implement the results of the previous one.That is in addition to obvious outside pressure from the EU to get the result it wanted.Having said that I can see many indigenous ( at least German ) Swiss now using the same freedom of movement to flee the country to Bavaria and the Austrian Tyrol where ironically they'll find more resistance to immigration than at home.

Depends on your passport I think. Once you have been there 12 yrs and got your passport, you are allowed to vote...even as an immigrant. By then of course the Swiss will regard you as still an auslander, but no longer as scum. The Swiss and Swiss govt aren't pro cheap labour or pro EU, good grief they are the absolute opposite. There is a standing joke in Switzerland that the only thing that unites them is that they are absolutely definitely not German, French or Italian. Its not that they aren't keen to implement it, its that they have to find a way in negotiations with the EU to implement it...the EU not being known to b so accommodating. The EU however is a little trapped with Switzerland because the SNB acts as its banker of last resort/backer.

Nor are the Swiss "fleeing" to Bavaria. Why would they? Wages are lower and well the Bavarians are still German. Unlike you Ive lived and remain in close contact with the Zurich to St Gallen communities and I live in Bavaria. The Bavarians aren't resistant to immigration either, in fact its an extremely welcoming place. Arrogant and rude in their intrinsic way yes, but very open. Business always comes first. They sure as hell aint doing much fleeing to the Tyrol either!

You need to do some first hand research old boy and not believe everything you read on the internet.

I think I'm not naive enough to believe that the move was resisted by the 'business community' because of the 'need' to 'recruit' 'skilled' labour from across Europe.Cheap yes more skilled than the Swiss no.

As for the Swiss not fleeing to ,so far,largely unaffected areas, when their country has been turned into an overpopulated high immigrant,low wage economy.I was actually applying foresight based on my own first hand knowledge of the areas in question.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 1st December 16:24

Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 1st December 16:30

[XJ Flyer]

blindswelledrat said:

XJ Flyer said:

It probably is for anyone who is making loads of money out of the cheap labour costs provided by the over supplied labour market and who lives in an area isulated from high immigration numbers.Like Cameron's constituency amongst others for example.

DO you notice how literally nobody takes any notice of what you say?
Even pro-ukipers and fellow anti-immigration people completely ignore you and feel slightly awkward that they are associated with you by opinion?
You are a twisted, bitter,communist racist and the presence of people like you make open discussion on things like this impossible to do without the whole argument appearing racist. If you genuinely want immigration to lessen the best thing you could possibly do is keep your views to yourself so you don't taint the people with more coherent thought processes.

No surprise there's no actual explanation as to how you've reached the conclusion that I'm a supposedly communist racist.

Although anyone who supports the status quo of forcing ever more numbers of immigration into certain parts of the country.While leaving others under populated wastelands.Or that our economy hasn't been all about keeping wage costs as low as possible for a few at the top to get rich.Would say that wouldn't they.

[NicD]

chris watton said:

steveT350C said:

To say that UKIP are 'Punching above their weight' may be conservative.

+1

[blindswelledrat]

XJ Flyer said:

No surprise there's no actual explanation as to how you've reached the conclusion that I'm a supposedly communist racist.

Although anyone who supports the status quo of forcing ever more numbers of immigration into certain parts of the country.While leaving others under populated wastelands.Or that our economy hasn't been all about keeping wage costs as low as possible for a few at the top to get rich.Would say that wouldn't they.

Just to reiterate : everyone has stopped reading your bitter rants. You are a gift to those whose opinions you oppose and an embarrassment to those whose general views you share

[DJRC]

XJ Flyer said:

DJRC said:

XJ Flyer said:

Greg66 said:

NicD said:

This looks good!


Switzerland votes on ending mass immigration
The controversial Ecopop movement wants to slash the numbers entering the coutry from 80,000 a year to just 16,000

why cant we have a vote?



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swi...

Sounds like a brilliant idea!

Except the Swiss rejected the proposal: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30267042

Decisively.

74% against the proposal.

Happy with a similar outcome here?

Firstly it would be interesting to find out if the immigrant communities were also allowed to vote in the referendum being that turkeys don't generally vote for christmas.While it seems obvious that the cheap labour pro immigration pro EU agenda there is obviously happy to selectively accept that vote while not being so keen to implement the results of the previous one.That is in addition to obvious outside pressure from the EU to get the result it wanted.Having said that I can see many indigenous ( at least German ) Swiss now using the same freedom of movement to flee the country to Bavaria and the Austrian Tyrol where ironically they'll find more resistance to immigration than at home.

Depends on your passport I think. Once you have been there 12 yrs and got your passport, you are allowed to vote...even as an immigrant. By then of course the Swiss will regard you as still an auslander, but no longer as scum. The Swiss and Swiss govt aren't pro cheap labour or pro EU, good grief they are the absolute opposite. There is a standing joke in Switzerland that the only thing that unites them is that they are absolutely definitely not German, French or Italian. Its not that they aren't keen to implement it, its that they have to find a way in negotiations with the EU to implement it...the EU not being known to b so accommodating. The EU however is a little trapped with Switzerland because the SNB acts as its banker of last resort/backer.

Nor are the Swiss "fleeing" to Bavaria. Why would they? Wages are lower and well the Bavarians are still German. Unlike you Ive lived and remain in close contact with the Zurich to St Gallen communities and I live in Bavaria. The Bavarians aren't resistant to immigration either, in fact its an extremely welcoming place. Arrogant and rude in their intrinsic way yes, but very open. Business always comes first. They sure as hell aint doing much fleeing to the Tyrol either!

You need to do some first hand research old boy and not believe everything you read on the internet.

I think I'm not naive enough to believe that the move was resisted by the 'business community' because of the 'need' to 'recruit' 'skilled' labour from across Europe.Cheap yes more skilled than the Swiss no.

As for the Swiss not fleeing to ,so far,largely unaffected areas, when their country has been turned into an overpopulated high immigrant,low wage economy.I was actually applying foresight based on my own first hand knowledge of the areas in question.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 1st December 16:24

Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 1st December 16:30

No you aren't. Switzerland is a very high wage economy for a start. Nor is it overpopulated.
Fleeing to so far largely unaffected areas? Well Bavaria has far more immigration than any other part of Europe and Switzerland. The BBC report on the Swiss vote lists who are the largest groups in Switzerland, Italy tops that list, yet those figures are lower than the Italians in Bavaria. Munich is known locally as the most northerly Italian city.

So, no. You were not applying foresight. Nor do you have much first hand knowledge of Bavaria or Germanic Switzerland. If of course you think you do then please - share...

[FiF]

Following on a little from that discussion with Greg66 (?) regarding polling and weighting.

Michael Ashcroft has just amended his Doncaster North poll which suggested that Miliband was vulnerable. Mistake in the data and it has been corrected and shows Ed in comfortable position on 51%, Ukip 27% and Cons 14%.


http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/12/ed-miliband-d...

[FiF]

For those of us who like Daniel Hannan's writings he is leaving the Telegraph.

His final blog linked below just saying cheerio.

His new location in addition to his website will be on capx, also linked.


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100...



http://www.capx.co

[XJ Flyer]

blindswelledrat said:

XJ Flyer said:

No surprise there's no actual explanation as to how you've reached the conclusion that I'm a supposedly communist racist.

Although anyone who supports the status quo of forcing ever more numbers of immigration into certain parts of the country.While leaving others under populated wastelands.Or that our economy hasn't been all about keeping wage costs as low as possible for a few at the top to get rich.Would say that wouldn't they.

Just to reiterate : everyone has stopped reading your bitter rants. You are a gift to those whose opinions you oppose and an embarrassment to those whose general views you share

Assuming that UKIP finds my comments an 'embarassment' then there is obviously no point in it standing in the south east on a policy of excessive immigration causing to much demand for over development here,the effects on the ethnic demographics of affected areas,and/or the idea that it is also distorting the labour market.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 1st December 23:57

[XJ Flyer]

DJRC said:

XJ Flyer said:

As for the Swiss not fleeing to ,so far,largely unaffected areas, when their country has been turned into an overpopulated high immigrant,low wage economy.I was actually applying foresight based on my own first hand knowledge of the areas in question.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 1st December 16:24

Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 1st December 16:30

No you aren't. Switzerland is a very high wage economy for a start. Nor is it overpopulated.
Fleeing to so far largely unaffected areas? Well Bavaria has far more immigration than any other part of Europe and Switzerland. The BBC report on the Swiss vote lists who are the largest groups in Switzerland, Italy tops that list, yet those figures are lower than the Italians in Bavaria. Munich is known locally as the most northerly Italian city.

So, no. You were not applying foresight. Nor do you have much first hand knowledge of Bavaria or Germanic Switzerland. If of course you think you do then please - share...

I think you need to understand the meaning of foresight IE future tense in which case it means where a high immigration policy will 'lead to' in the 'future' not where the Swiss economy 'is' at 'present'.

As for my first hand 'knowledge' of Austria,Switzerland and Bavaria let's just say that it extends from the 1970's to date and extends a bit further than just what happens in Munich and Italian immigration.In which case trust me the word 'controversy' over east european immigration here for example is an understatement.Just as in the case of Switzerland.IE no one is being fooled that it is not all about the import of cheap east european labour.

http://euranetplus-inside.eu/eurosceptic-wave-from...

www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/18/us-swiss-immigr...

[Esseesse]

FiF said:

For those of us who like Daniel Hannan's writings he is leaving the Telegraph.

His final blog linked below just saying cheerio.

His new location in addition to his website will be on capx, also linked.


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100...



http://www.capx.co

It looks like Telegraph blogs are closing...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/12/...

Too much of a UKIP liability?

[brenflys777]

The seedy depths of pathetic trolls and poor journalism.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/12/...

[handpaper]

Esseesse said:

It looks like Telegraph blogs are closing...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/12/...

Too much of a UKIP liability?

Maybe. They had, pretty much, "lost" the readership. Blogs, particularly Dan Hodges', Tim Stanley's and former blogs editor Damian Thompson's were routinely attacked by commenters.
Some of these attacks were from a growing number of annoyingly loud, repetitive and partisan Kippers who polluted nearly every discussion with smear and slogans. Others were more reasoned, notably those on Hodges for his frequent assertions that UKIP is a racist party and for failing to an interest in a pro-immigration lobbying group.

[DJRC]

XJ Flyer said:

I think you need to understand the meaning of foresight IE future tense in which case it means where a high immigration policy will 'lead to' in the 'future' not where the Swiss economy 'is' at 'present'.

As for my first hand 'knowledge' of Austria,Switzerland and Bavaria let's just say that it extends from the 1970's to date and extends a bit further than just what happens in Munich and Italian immigration.In which case trust me the word 'controversy' over east european immigration here for example is an understatement.Just as in the case of Switzerland.IE no one is being fooled that it is not all about the import of cheap east european labour.

http://euranetplus-inside.eu/eurosceptic-wave-from...

www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/18/us-swiss-immigr...

Except you weren't. You were using the present tense to argue that "now" you can see the Swiss using the current laws to flee. When they aren't. Your twinkle toes footwork to try and change that to applying a future perspective was alas shown to be "disaaaaaastrous" to quote our favourite dance critic, by arguing your past/present own knowledge. Unless of course you wish to try and argue you were using your own local knowledge of the area, people, conditions, work, ex pat relations of how things are in the future to apply that foresight?

Please, enlighten us more about your first hand knowledge. I live there currently. I work there. Im agog ...

Orrrrrrrr...*did* you leave and work there? In the 70s and 80s? But no longer do so and haven't done so for quite some time?
Nobody gives a crap about east European immigration in Bavaria. Why would they? Anybody north of the Bayerische is regarded as an auslander anyway! Munich itself loves immigration because it has helped drive the business community there from a sleepy little Southern German town into a European powerhouse along with the extraordinarily successful "laptops and lederhosen" political philosophy that the entire area believes in. It is a stunningly successful social, political and business philosophy. And cheap labour? Are you frigging joking??? Mein gott.

Which brings us back to your last jibe about Switzerland and cheap eastern European labour. You have wonderfully misunderstood the Swiss anger by precisely your use of the word "labour". There isn't much use of these "cheapies" in the working place out there. They hang about, unemployed, nowhere to go or do. They are unsightly which in Swiss eyes is beneath goat fking as a crime. The Ecopop slant is because of the pressure the useless immigrants put on public resources, esp housing. Switzerland already suffers from twin housing booms in Zurich and the Geneva area due to the influx of the high end working ex pats...follow the threads on Englishforum.ch if you wish a for a flavour of that one!

You have jack st, zero, zip knowledge of what you claim to be talking about and Im more than happy to dismantle every single argument you put here on this because I very much do have the most upto date, accurate, contemporary and first hand experience of anyone on the board. So hey, rock on

I will grant though that if you wish to return the debate to Middlesex and Slurrey, Im happy to bow your greater knowledge on those ares. Fortunately I spend my time in nice parts of the world

[jogon]

handpaper said:

Esseesse said:

It looks like Telegraph blogs are closing...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/12/...

Too much of a UKIP liability?

Maybe. They had, pretty much, "lost" the readership. Blogs, particularly Dan Hodges', Tim Stanley's and former blogs editor Damian Thompson's were routinely attacked by commenters.
Some of these attacks were from a growing number of annoyingly loud, repetitive and partisan Kippers who polluted nearly every discussion with smear and slogans. Others were more reasoned, notably those on Hodges for his frequent assertions that UKIP is a racist party and for failing to an interest in a pro-immigration lobbying group.

The Telegraph have deluded themselves in to thinking there are actually liberal progressive conservative readers but the reality is they are few and far between. Attacking and insulting core beliefs has not worked so no they close down the the debate. Quite pathetic really.

[handpaper]

brenflys777 said:

The seedy depths of pathetic trolls and poor journalism.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/12/...

I wonder if there's time before the GE for a few libel/slander/defamation suits?
I think it may be Party policy not to defend against the common slurs (racist, homophobic, etc.) in this way, to avoid either drawing attention to them or appearing thin-skinned.
However, it could be useful in future to be able to point to a judgement in rebuttal of such an attack?

[handpaper]

jogon said:

The Telegraph have deluded themselves in to thinking there are actually liberal progressive conservative readers but the reality is they are few and far between. Attacking and insulting core beliefs has not worked so no they close down the the debate. Quite pathetic really.

Westminster/London bubble. When you're surrounded by 'progressives' it's hard to conceive that there may be valid, differing opinions held elsewhere.

[handpaper]

jogon said:

The Telegraph have deluded themselves in to thinking there are actually liberal progressive conservative readers but the reality is they are few and far between. Attacking and insulting core beliefs has not worked so no they close down the the debate. Quite pathetic really.

Westminster/London bubble. When you're surrounded by 'progressives' it's hard to conceive that there may be valid, differing opinions held elsewhere.

[fatboy18]

Guam said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2856803/Fa...

Is anyone left in Poland or are the russians moving in?

[FiF]

handpaper said:

jogon said:

The Telegraph have deluded themselves in to thinking there are actually liberal progressive conservative readers but the reality is they are few and far between. Attacking and insulting core beliefs has not worked so no they close down the the debate. Quite pathetic really.

Westminster/London bubble. When you're surrounded by 'progressives' it's hard to conceive that there may be valid, differing opinions held elsewhere.

That may be part of the problem.

It's also somewhat disingenuous imo to blame it all on cyber- kippers. Cyber-nats were just the same and then there are the just generally nasty smart arses that trawl everywhere. All commentators and discussion places see them. Hence the frequently made observations about all parts of such as PH infected by these oiks who don't want to debate the issues but just engineer a situation to take a poke at someone.

Let's be clear there are times that certain individuals deserve a prodding for whatever reason, but it's getting worse and difficult to avoid being dragged in at times.

At times one can understand the reason for the DT to withdraw but their traffic WILL suffer.