UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[Yazar]

Gaspode said:

Are you asserting that the NHS recruits staff without interviewing them first and assessing their capability to do the job for which they are applying?

(hint: My sister just retired after 30 years working for the NHS in administration.)

Yes. Why do you that link you posted exists? The consultations on bringing in language checks is to address real problems we are having.

Patients Association said:

Katherine Murphy, chief executive of the Patients Association, said too many nurses were recruited despite poor language skills and a lack of understanding of NHS procedures.

Royal College of Nursing said:

Dr Peter Carter, of the Royal College of Nursing, said: ‘By recruiting in a hurry, the NHS is trying to paper over the cracks that formed when the UK was failing to train and retain its own nurses.

"There is no excuse for having nurses arrive on wards without good communication skills and all the clinical skills needed to deliver high levels of care."

[Zod]

Guam said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/f...
Shame no one saw that coming.........

It means nothing. The useless fat little Frenchman is not in a position to dictate anything.

[Yazar]

league67 said:

Gaspode,

You are wasting your breath. The guy obviously doesn't have a clue about education. Or NHS. Or anything for that matter. His 'opinions' are copy of breibart's 'how to argue against eu in 10 easy lessons'.
Secondary character from random Kafka's novel. Only good to take potshots at.

What a cop out.

Fact is that we are negotiating with the EU to allow us to check language skills of medical staff.

Why do you think we are doing this, if problems do not exist?

Now in the words of your ex tory leader, 'put up, or shut up'

[league67]

chris watton said:

I have absolutely no doubt that Cameron knew this would happen, that's why he pretends to talk tough on the EU, he knows that what he says and 'guarantee's' will always be stymied by the EU, which he has no intention of getting out of (plus I'm sure there'll be a nice EU non-job for him and his cronies in the year's to come..)

You knew that someone else knew that something will happen. Do you not understand stupidity of that statement?
Ex prime ministers making their money by being non-execs and doing after dinner speaking. Why on earth would he want a job in EU? They can charge £300000 per speech. But you, simple chris, who can't figure out plural of year, knew what Cameron knew.



I love this thread. I really do.

[chris watton]

Zod said:

Guam said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/f...
Shame no one saw that coming.........

It means nothing. The useless fat little Frenchman is not in a position to dictate anything.

Nor is the useless fat little Englishman.

[Gaspode]

Yazar said:

Gaspode said:

Are you asserting that the NHS recruits staff without interviewing them first and assessing their capability to do the job for which they are applying?

(hint: My sister just retired after 30 years working for the NHS in administration.)

Yes. Why do you that link you posted exists? The consultations on bringing in language checks is to address real problems we are having.

Patients Association said:

Katherine Murphy, chief executive of the Patients Association, said too many nurses were recruited despite poor language skills and a lack of understanding of NHS procedures.

Royal College of Nursing said:

Dr Peter Carter, of the Royal College of Nursing, said: ‘By recruiting in a hurry, the NHS is trying to paper over the cracks that formed when the UK was failing to train and retain its own nurses.

"There is no excuse for having nurses arrive on wards without good communication skills and all the clinical skills needed to deliver high levels of care."

So the NHS is trying to blame its own poor resource management and recruiting problems onto the EU. There is indeed no excuse for recruiting Nurses with the wrong skills, be they linguistic or clinical. Why is the EU to be blamed for poor management in the NHS?

[9mm]

With respect, not sure working in NHS administration is much to shout about. In my experience, as a consultant behind the scenes, it's generally over populated, spreadsheet city and anything but patient centred. I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see evidence of shoddy recruitment practice. As a patient and visiting patients I've often encountered staff with very limited English language skills. Odd that this is never the case with admin staff.

[Yazar]

Gaspode said:

Why is the EU to be blamed for poor management in the NHS?

We are allowed to test non-EU Nhs staff for level of English language skills.
We are not allowed to test Eu Nhs staff for level of English language skills.

Spot the differences in these 2 sentences.


EDIT: With reference to 9mm's comment above, might be time to let this one go Gaspode?

[chris watton]

league67 said:

chris watton said:

I have absolutely no doubt that Cameron knew this would happen, that's why he pretends to talk tough on the EU, he knows that what he says and 'guarantee's' will always be stymied by the EU, which he has no intention of getting out of (plus I'm sure there'll be a nice EU non-job for him and his cronies in the year's to come..)

You knew that someone else knew that something will happen. Do you not understand stupidity of that statement?
Ex prime ministers making their money by being non-execs and doing after dinner speaking. Why on earth would he want a job in EU? They can charge £300000 per speech. But you, simple chris, who can't figure out plural of year, knew what Cameron knew.



I love this thread. I really do.

Wow! Why insult me?

Are you that insecure that you have add infantile little digs?

And is that something you would be prepared to say to me directly, if we ever met?

[Gaspode]

9mm said:

With respect, not sure working in NHS administration is much to shout about. In my experience, as a consultant behind the scenes, it's generally over populated, spreadsheet city and anything but patient centred. I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see evidence of shoddy recruitment practice. As a patient and visiting patients I've often encountered staff with very limited English language skills. Odd that this is never the case with admin staff.

I quite agree. The reason I mentioned my sister working in admin is to underline the fact that I know full well just how shoddy their recruitment practices are/were. Like so many areas in the public sector, it's something we see time and time again, from Health and Safety to Local Government.

It's just so easy to blame the EU when it's nothing to do with them, it's all about piss-poor performance by people who really should be held to account for it. Getting us out of the EU will not go one inch towards addressing these issues.

[Yazar]

Gaspode said:

It's just so easy to blame the EU when it's nothing to do with them, it's all about piss-poor performance by people who really should be held to account for it. Getting us out of the EU will not go one inch towards addressing these issues.

But it is, the EU continually puts ideals before reality and common sense- which causes problems like this and many more. It has a dinasour mentality.

[BGARK]

Gaspode said:

Getting us out of the EU will not go one inch towards addressing these issues.

Pardon. So if we run our own country and set standards for applicants in any line of work we cannot control the quality of candidates, of course we can!

[Gaspode]

Yazar said:

We are allowed to test non-EU Nhs staff for level of English language skills.
We are not allowed to test Eu Nhs staff for level of English language skills.

Spot the differences in these 2 sentences.


EDIT: With reference to 9mm's comment above, might be time to let this one go Gaspode?

You missed the key word out - it's systematic (i.e. indiscriminate) testing of EU applicants that is against the rules. The EU directive is all about accepting registration of EU people, NOT about assessing their capability to do a specific job. The NHS has been hiding behind this canard in an attempt to deflect attention from their piss-poor recruitment techniques (i.e. desperately plugging bodies into jobs without even rudimentary assessment of their capabilities)

[brenflys777]

Zod said:

Guam said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/f...
Shame no one saw that coming.........

It means nothing. The useless fat little Frenchman is not in a position to dictate anything.

Is the article incorrect about the French having and being prepared to use a veto?

Considering Cameron wants some significant changes (apparently) and the fact the French have used their veto before, why should we doubt that they would block any UK demands?

[league67]

chris watton said:

league67 said:

chris watton said:

I have absolutely no doubt that Cameron knew this would happen, that's why he pretends to talk tough on the EU, he knows that what he says and 'guarantee's' will always be stymied by the EU, which he has no intention of getting out of (plus I'm sure there'll be a nice EU non-job for him and his cronies in the year's to come..)

You knew that someone else knew that something will happen. Do you not understand stupidity of that statement?
Ex prime ministers making their money by being non-execs and doing after dinner speaking. Why on earth would he want a job in EU? They can charge £300000 per speech. But you, simple chris, who can't figure out plural of year, knew what Cameron knew.



I love this thread. I really do.

Wow! Why insult me?

Are you that insecure that you have add infantile little digs?

And is that something you would be prepared to say to me directly, if we ever met?

Grow a thicker skin. Do you really think that any PM is interested in 'cushy' EU job? It's interesting that you object to someone's imaginary, job, but you are, seemingly, quite happy that NF and 'his cronies' are doing cushy non-jobs for years with nothing to show for it. Yet you objecting me calling you simple. You are probably right, you are an intellectual, unpredictable enigma.

I only frequent immigrants-r-us gatherings, so I doubt that we would ever meet. But if we did, I'd be probably too scared to look in direction of your awesomeness.

[Yazar]

Gaspode said:

Yazar said:

We are allowed to test non-EU Nhs staff for level of English language skills.
We are not allowed to test Eu Nhs staff for level of English language skills.

Spot the differences in these 2 sentences.


EDIT: With reference to 9mm's comment above, might be time to let this one go Gaspode?

You missed the key word out - it's systematic (i.e. indiscriminate) testing of EU applicants that is against the rules. The EU directive is all about accepting registration of EU people, NOT about assessing their capability to do a specific job. The NHS has been hiding behind this canard in an attempt to deflect attention from their piss-poor recruitment techniques (i.e. desperately plugging bodies into jobs without even rudimentary assessment of their capabilities)

Can you name me some nhs professional roles where english would not be necessary, or tell me a reason not to have systemic testing for nhs professionals?

The rules were created by idealistic morons, who allow 'das ist discrimination innit' hysteria to overrule basic common sense. And after ill patients suffering the consequences, the weak uk politicians are now addressing it through the EU channels which will take years.

Edited by Yazar on Thursday 18th December 12:56

[Yazar]

league67 said:

Do you really think that any PM is interested in 'cushy' EU job?

Tony Blair wanted the EU presidents job, the current Coalition blocked him.

[Gaspode]

Yazar said:

I am saying that the rules were created by idealistic morons, who allow 'das ist discrimination innit' hysteria to overrule basic common sense.

OK, I'll concede that point. A piece of poorly-thought legislation that has caused numerous issues and has now been changed to recognise the UK's (and other countries) concerns.

But it has always been within the NHS's gift to assess capabilities to do a specific job. Yes, they have had to accept the clinical qualifications of EU nurses who qualified in other countries. But they've always been able to (and chosen not to for whatever reason) have a simple set of questions at interview time to determine an applicant's suitability for a post on a case-by-case basis.

[chris watton]

league67 said:

Grow a thicker skin. Do you really think that any PM is interested in 'cushy' EU job? It's interesting that you object to someone's imaginary, job, but you are, seemingly, quite happy that NF and 'his cronies' are doing cushy non-jobs for years with nothing to show for it. Yet you objecting me calling you simple. You are probably right, you are an intellectual, unpredictable enigma.

I only frequent immigrants-r-us gatherings, so I doubt that we would ever meet. But if we did, I'd be probably too scared to look in direction of your awesomeness.

It is not about me and thick skins. it is about you and having nothing left but to resort to cheap insults. It happens all the time (and occasionally, it narks me, because it's all too predicable), it makes people feel better about themselves over other's who have different viewpoints, doesn't it? if you pretend that the person you do not agree with has some kind 'ism', or any word ending in 'phobia'/'phobic', or, as you suggested, is 'simple', you like to think you have some kind of [false] moral and intellectual high ground. After all, how dare someone not share your political viewpoint!

I called you up on that, that is all.

[league67]

Yazar said:

league67 said:

Do you really think that any PM is interested in 'cushy' EU job?

Tony Blair wanted the EU presidents job, the current Coalition blocked him.

So he wanted a job that'll earn him less in a year than he gets for one evening. Teflon is many things, but he's not stupid.

PS 12 * 24k = ?