UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[Scuffers]

vonuber said:

Scuffers said:

Did she promote the systematic sexual abuse of 1,200+ children?

Can I have an exact quote and proof of policy / deliberate strategy for this please (as you so demand of people of UKIP's policies and quotes).

The strategy was multiculturalism, and it actually happened, for real.

[don4l]

cookie118 said:

I'd imagine that women would want to be paid based on the job they do and not their gender unlike currently (the vagina tax as sarah silverman elegantly puts it), and to not be judged like this:

I'd imagine that women would want to be paid according to the value that they bring to their employer. If they bring the same value as a man, then they should receive the same renumeration.

[anonymous-user]

don4l said:

cookie118 said:

I'd imagine that women would want to be paid based on the job they do and not their gender unlike currently (the vagina tax as sarah silverman elegantly puts it), and to not be judged like this:

I'd imagine that women would want to be paid according to the value that they bring to their employer. If they bring the same value as a man, then they should receive the same renumeration.

Yep they should-but currently several studies show that they aren't:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/educat...

Anyway-mild diversion!

[vonuber]

Scuffers said:

The strategy was multiculturalism, and it actually happened, for real.

So you have nothing then?

[sidicks]

cookie118 said:

Yep they should-but currently several studies show that they aren't:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/educat...

Studies show no such thing. Differences between male and female pay can be explained by career gaps for women who have chosen to take career breaks to have children, meaning that they then have less experience than men of similar age.

[anonymous-user]

sidicks said:

cookie118 said:

Yep they should-but currently several studies show that they aren't:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/educat...

Studies show no such thing. Differences between male and female pay can be explained by career gaps for women who have chosen to take career breaks to have children, meaning that they then have less experience than men of similar age.

Errm-the study quoted is for straight from university?

And their pay should continue growing after men's has plateaued based on that but the growth stops earlier.
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-g...

Anyway-I feel this is a bit of a diversion from UKIP?

[sidicks]

cookie118 said:

Errm-the study quoted is for straight from university?

And their pay should continue growing after men's has plateaued based on that but the growth stops earlier.
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-g...

Anyway-I feel this is a bit of a diversion from UKIP?

That link seems to confirm my point. Any pay gap is based on either men choosing different careers than women or women choosing a career break to have children. Where's the issue?

[anonymous-user]

sidicks said:

That link seems to confirm my point. Any pay gap is based on either men choosing different careers than women or women choosing a career break to have children. Where's the issue?

But the other link suggests they are still at a disadvantage straight out of uni and the link you quote states in the same jobs they are still underpaid, of the order of a couple of %.

Also:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/19/ge...
The CMI pay data also shows that under the age of 19, female managers are paid 12% less than male managers, while between the ages of 20 and 25 the figure falls to 6%, before rising again to 8% between 26 and 35. At that point, male managers start earning significantly more than female colleagues in similar jobs.

Suggests that even pre children women earn less in the same roles?

[sidicks]

cookie118 said:

But the other link suggests they are still at a disadvantage straight out of uni and the link you quote states in the same jobs they are still underpaid, of the order of a couple of %.

Also:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/19/ge...
The CMI pay data also shows that under the age of 19, female managers are paid 12% less than male managers, while between the ages of 20 and 25 the figure falls to 6%, before rising again to 8% between 26 and 35. At that point, male managers start earning significantly more than female colleagues in similar jobs.

Suggests that even pre children women earn less in the same roles?

Please find me ANY jobs that advertise different pay rates to men and women...

It's no use comparing 'similar' jobs - that's meaningless - you need to compare the same jobs!

[dandarez]

cookie118 said:

sidicks said:

cookie118 said:

Yep they should-but currently several studies show that they aren't:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/educat...

Studies show no such thing. Differences between male and female pay can be explained by career gaps for women who have chosen to take career breaks to have children, meaning that they then have less experience than men of similar age.

Errm-the study quoted is for straight from university?

And their pay should continue growing after men's has plateaued based on that but the growth stops earlier.
http://www.payscale.com/gender-lifetime-earnings-g...

Anyway-I feel this is a bit of a diversion from UKIP?

Let's get back on topic then...



Imagine someone associated with UKIP putting up a sign like that, the race card would be out quicker than I could type it!

It is racist, isn't it? It must be, it's aimed at one race in their language.

Plus, we don't have a problem with Romanians ...do we?

[don4l]

cookie118 said:

don4l said:

cookie118 said:

I'd imagine that women would want to be paid based on the job they do and not their gender unlike currently (the vagina tax as sarah silverman elegantly puts it), and to not be judged like this:

I'd imagine that women would want to be paid according to the value that they bring to their employer. If they bring the same value as a man, then they should receive the same renumeration.

Yep they should-but currently several studies show that they aren't:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/educat...

Anyway-mild diversion!

There wasn't anything in that article that said that they bring the same value to their employer.

[Countdown]

Scuffers said:

vonuber said:

Scuffers said:

Did she promote the systematic sexual abuse of 1,200+ children?

Can I have an exact quote and proof of policy / deliberate strategy for this please (as you so demand of people of UKIP's policies and quotes).

The strategy was multiculturalism, and it actually happened, for real.

Cripes....that's about as logical as saying Nigel's got a German wife and therefore supports the Holocaust !!!

[anonymous-user]

sidicks said:

Please find me ANY jobs that advertise different pay rates to men and women...

It's no use comparing 'similar' jobs - that's meaningless - you need to compare the same jobs!

No-one's going to advertise that fact, but when offered jobs and salaries, and when it comes with promotion the salaries won't be advertised. But companies now have to publish data on their pay gaps and gender pay data, so the data should be available.

don4l said:

There wasn't anything in that article that said that they bring the same value to their employer.

But straight out of uni-with the same degrees would you not agree that they would be bringing the same value to their company?

Also-by implication-do you think female grads bring less value to a business than male grads?

[sidicks]

cookie118 said:

But straight out of uni-with the same degrees would you not agree that they would be bringing the same value to their company?

So you ARE claiming that an employee in graduate recruitment would differentiate between male and female candidates, all else being equal..?!

The degree is only part of the experience they bring...

I simply don't believe that graduate recruiters differentiate by sex, not least because the salary offered will be visible to all candidates.

cookie118 said:

Also-by implication-do you think female grads bring less value to a business than male grads?[/quote
See above.

[Scuffers]

Countdown said:

Scuffers said:

vonuber said:

Scuffers said:

Did she promote the systematic sexual abuse of 1,200+ children?

Can I have an exact quote and proof of policy / deliberate strategy for this please (as you so demand of people of UKIP's policies and quotes).

The strategy was multiculturalism, and it actually happened, for real.

Cripes....that's about as logical as saying Nigel's got a German wife and therefore supports the Holocaust !!!

Ok, how did you work that out then?

You m8get just want to spend a minute or so reading the report into what happened.

[Countdown]

Scuffers said:

Ok, how did you work that out then?

You m8get just want to spend a minute or so reading the report into what happened.

In the same way you seem to have worked out that somebody promoted the sexual abuse of 1200 kids.

Could you point out the bit in the report that says this happened?

[Scuffers]

I would argue that by allowing something to happen is tantamount to promoting it.

[NicD]

Back on track, from this morning's rag:

Immigration beats economy as number one worry for UK voters
Immigration is the most important political issue to voters, pollsters say
Public are more worried about Britain's borders than finances, YouGov say
It's the first time since 2010 that the economy hasn't been the biggest issue
Europe also soared as an issue for concern as Ukip moved up in the polls


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2889432/Im...

[Gaspode]

Scuffers said:

I would argue that by allowing something to happen is tantamount to promoting it.

Are you serious? Tolerance is the same as encouragement? Blimey.

[powerstroke]

NicD said:

Back on track, from this morning's rag:

Immigration beats economy as number one worry for UK voters
Immigration is the most important political issue to voters, pollsters say
Public are more worried about Britain's borders than finances, YouGov say
It's the first time since 2010 that the economy hasn't been the biggest issue
Europe also soared as an issue for concern as Ukip moved up in the polls


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2889432/Im...

For me and I guess most people its quality of life issues !!
the economy, immigration and rules and regs have a massive affect unless you're very well off and can buy your way out of the problems ,

Edited by powerstroke on Monday 29th December 08:17