UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
Greg66 said:
Always remember: this thread exists solely for the dozen or so Kipperati that keep it going. And it is not a forum for discussion, much less criticism. It is a Holy Shrine for quiet contemplation and reflection about all that is great and good about St Nigel and his utterly anonymous disciples (except Reckless and Carswell. They're not anonymous, but they are Johnny-come-lately immigrants to the Pious Kingdom of Kipper).
I would like to place on record that Mr 66 here is not me using another alias with another PH account.But I like the man's lines of reasoning - couldn't have put it better myself
rs1952 said:
Greg66 said:
Always remember: this thread exists solely for the dozen or so Kipperati that keep it going. And it is not a forum for discussion, much less criticism. It is a Holy Shrine for quiet contemplation and reflection about all that is great and good about St Nigel and his utterly anonymous disciples (except Reckless and Carswell. They're not anonymous, but they are Johnny-come-lately immigrants to the Pious Kingdom of Kipper).
I would like to place on record that Mr 66 here is not me using another alias with another PH account.But I like the man's lines of reasoning - couldn't have put it better myself
Is that how you address your disciple Greg? He'll love that.
Do you sell porkies, pasties and sausage rolls and drivel too?
Well, we don't like the flaky stuff here, we like wholesome nutritious omega 3 Kippers, so go and flounder somewhere else.
rs1952 said:
Greg66 said:
Always remember: this thread exists solely for the dozen or so Kipperati that keep it going. And it is not a forum for discussion, much less criticism. It is a Holy Shrine for quiet contemplation and reflection about all that is great and good about St Nigel and his utterly anonymous disciples (except Reckless and Carswell. They're not anonymous, but they are Johnny-come-lately immigrants to the Pious Kingdom of Kipper).
I would like to place on record that Mr 66 here is not me using another alias with another PH account.But I like the man's lines of reasoning - couldn't have put it better myself
BGARK said:
Can see the Daily Mail headline front page now.'PROMINENT SIKH JOINS UKIP'
Somehow I don't think so.
Come on Mr 66 and RS ...comment PLEASE!
sidicks said:
I'm still waiting for your evidence of UKIP's 'despicable' policies...
Their policies are populist nonsense (and when you press a kipper on the detail they obfuscate and change the topic) designed to pander to the fears of the ignorant: not got a job? Immigrants! The EU! All those nasty foreigners! That is what is despicable.And the funny thing is, the dear leader is married to one of these immigrant foreigners and uses the EU quite nicely to feather his own nest and promote his party.
vonuber said:
sidicks said:
I'm still waiting for your evidence of UKIP's 'despicable' policies...
Their policies are populist nonsense (and when you press a kipper on the detail they obfuscate and change the topic) designed to pander to the fears of the ignorant: not got a job? Immigrants! The EU! All those nasty foreigners! That is what is despicable.And the funny thing is, the dear leader is married to one of these immigrant foreigners and uses the EU quite nicely to feather his own nest and promote his party.
Here's something for you, if antikips Mr 66 and RS won't comment, you comment!
What are YOUR thoughts on a prominent Labour 'SIKH' having joined UKIP ?
Can't wait to read your drivel answer.
dandarez said:
Come on Mr 66 and RS ...comment PLEASE!
Tomorrow Dan, tomorrow. I am in Johannesburg at the moment and it's just gone midnight.I'm sure you'll be able to wait a few hours for a detailed response. In the meantime, don't forget your photoshopped image of an EU politician with a Hitleresque hairstyle and moustache, that even your kipper friends on here thought that you were crackers to post. I haven't forgotten it...
That in itself said nothing about UKIP, but rather a lot about at least one of its supporters in this neck of the woods
Edited to add a recent post:
dandarez said:
You have no answer do you? Just sling the insults.
Ooh the irony...Edited by rs1952 on Monday 29th December 22:09
Greg66 said:
Always remember: this thread exists solely for the dozen or so Kipperati that keep it going.
If this thread exists soley for supporters of UKIP to swap ideas, then why do we see so many rabid, phlegm stained attack posts?Don't you have anyone else to argue with?
Just asking.
I do agree with Carswell here though:
Oh, and does anyone really give a f
k that some local councillor that no-one has ever heard of is joining UKIP? Bit too much uncritical Kipper cheerleading going on around here IMO.
Carswell said:
Britain is now corporatist rather than capitalist, with “big business and big government getting together and carving up a large slice of the economic pie for their advantage”. Together, they form a new establishment.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/risky-business-peter-wilby-owen-jones-s-establishmentArticle said:
Rail, arms, nuclear energy and (post-crisis) banking are examples of industries that receive big state subsidies. Companies such as Atos, A4e, Serco and G4S make substantial profits from supplying outsourced state services, which do not offer obviously better value for money than when the state ran them. Under the private finance initiative (PFI), hospitals and schools pay large “service fees” to private companies. Chunks of the NHS are now, in effect, being privatised and, if the Tories are returned to power, schools cannot be far behind. Lawyers, accountants and consultants are richly rewarded for drawing up the complex contracts that govern these arrangements.
I've yet to see a coherent UKIP plan to change this though. They seem to be pandering to fears and insecurities rather than having anything serious to say.Oh, and does anyone really give a f
k that some local councillor that no-one has ever heard of is joining UKIP? Bit too much uncritical Kipper cheerleading going on around here IMO.vonuber said:
I don't really care? He is free to do as he chooses. And why 'SIKH' in quote marks and capital letters?
I'm not sure. It can't be that he's trying to draw attention to the fact that as someone of non-white heritage is jointing UKIP it proves that UKIP supporters aren't racist, not even a Kipper could be that dim.smn159 said:
I've yet to see a coherent UKIP plan to change this though. They seem to be pandering to fears and insecurities rather than having anything serious to say.
.
nothing serious in this then? .
But I agree, it is early days and lots to precise and define BUT a party not in the pockets of either the unions or big business is what attracts many, myself included.
What a UKIP Government will do:
Protecting jobs and increasing prosperity
- We would review all legislation and regulations from the EU (3,600 new laws since 2010) and remove those which hamper British prosperity and competitiveness.
– We would negotiate a bespoke trade agreement with the EU to enable our businesses to continue trading to mutual advantage.
– UKIP would not seek to remain in the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) or European Economic Area (EEA) while those treaties maintain a principle of free movement of labour, which prevents the UK managing its own borders.
– We would reoccupy the UK’s vacant seat at the World Trade Organisation, ensuring that we continue to enjoy ‘most favoured nation’ status in trade with the EU, as is required under WTO rules.
Repairing the UK Economy
– UKIP will increase personal allowance to the level of full-time minimum wage earnings (approx £13,500 by next election).
– Inheritance tax will be abolished.
– We will introduce a 35p income tax rate between £42,285 and £55,000, whereupon the 40p rate becomes payable.
– UKIP will set up a Treasury Commission to design a turnover tax to ensure big businesses pay a minimum floor rate of tax as a proportion of their UK turnover.
Reducing debts we leave to our grandchildren
– UKIP will leave the EU and save at least £8bn pa in net contributions.
– UKIP will cut the foreign aid budget by £9bn pa, prioritising disaster relief and schemes which provide water and inoculation against preventable diseases.
– UKIP will scrap the HS2 project which is uneconomical and unjustified.
– UKIP will abolish the Department of Energy and Climate Change and scrap green subsidies.
– UKIP will abolish the Department for Culture Media and Sport.
– UKIP will reduce Barnett Formula spending and give devolved parliaments and assemblies further tax powers to compensate.
Prioritising Education and Skills
– UKIP will introduce an option for students to take an Apprenticeship Qualification instead of four non-core GCSEs which can be continued at A-Level. Students can take up apprenticeships in jobs with certified professionals qualified to grade the progress of the student.
– Subject to academic performance UKIP will remove tuition fees for students taking approved degrees in science, medicine, technology, engineering, maths on the condition that they live, work and pay tax in the UK for five years after the completion of their degrees.
– UKIP will scrap the target of 50% of school leavers going to university.
– Students from the EU will pay the same student fee rates as International students.
– UKIP supports the principle of Free Schools that are open to the whole community and uphold British values.
– Existing schools will be allowed to apply to become grammar schools and select according to ability and aptitude. Selection ages will be flexible and determined by the school in consultation with the local authority.
– Schools will be investigated by OFSTED on the presentation of a petition to the Department for Education signed by 25% of parents or governors.
Honouring the Military Covenant
– We will resource fully our military assets and personnel.
– UKIP will guarantee those who have served in the Armed Forces for a minimum of 12 years a job in the police force, prison service or border force
– UKIP will change the points system for social housing to give priority to ex-service men and women and those returning from active service.
– A Veterans Department will bring together all veterans services to ensure servicemen and women get the after-service care they deserve.
– Veterans are to receive a Veterans’ Service Card to ensure they are fast tracked for mental health care and services, if needed.
– All entitlements will be extended to servicemen recruited from overseas.
– UKIP supports a National Service Medal for all those who have served in the armed forces.
The National Health Service
– UKIP will ensure the NHS is free at the point of delivery and time of need for all UK residents.
– We will stop further use of PFI in the NHS and encourage local authorities to buy out their PFI contracts early where this is affordable.
– We will ensure that GPs’ surgeries are open at least one evening per week, where there is demand for it.
– UKIP opposes plans to charge patients for visiting their GP.
–We will ensure that visitors to the UK, and migrants until they have paid NI for five years, have NHS-approved private health insurance as a condition of entry to the UK, saving the NHS £2bn pa. UKIP will commit to spending £200m of the £2bn saving to end hospital car parking charges in England.
– We will replace Monitor and the Care Quality Commission with elected county health boards to be more responsive scrutineers of local health services. These will be able to inspect health services and take evidence from whistle-blowers.
– UKIP opposes the sale of NHS data to third parties.
– We will ensure foreign health service professionals coming to work in the NHS are properly qualified and can speak English to a standard acceptable to the profession.
– UKIP will amend working time rules to give trainee doctors, surgeons and medics the proper environment to train and practise.
– There will be a duty on all health service staff to report low standards of care.
Controlling and managing our borders
– UKIP recognises the benefits of limited, controlled immigration.
– UKIP will leave the EU, and take back control of our borders. Work permits will be permitted to fill skills gaps in the UK jobs market.
– We will extend to EU citizens the existing points-based system for time-limited work permits. Those coming to work in the UK must have a job to go to, must speak English, must have accommodation agreed prior to their arrival, and must have NHS-approved health insurance.
– Migrants will only be eligible for benefits (in work or out of work) when they have been paying tax and NI for five years and will only be eligible for permanent residence after ten years.
– UKIP will reinstate the primary purpose rule for bringing foreign spouses and children to the UK.
– UKIP will not offer an amnesty for illegal immigrants or those gaining British passports through fraud.
– UKIP will return to the principles of the UN Convention of Refugees which serves to protect the most vulnerable.
Foreign Aid
– UKIP will target foreign aid at healthcare initiatives, inoculations against preventable diseases and clean water programmes with a much-reduced aid budget administered by the Foreign Office.
– British organisations will be offered the contracts to deliver the remaining aid following removal of the EU Procurement Directive.
Energy
– UKIP will repeal the Climate Change Act 2008 which costs the economy £18bn a year.
– UKIP supports a diverse energy market including coal, nuclear, shale gas, geo-thermal, tidal, solar, conventional gas and oil.
– We will scrap the Large Combustion Plant Directive and encourage the re-development of British power stations, as well as industrial units providing on-site power generation.
– UKIP supports the development of shale gas with proper safeguards for the local environment. Community Improvement Levy money from the development of shale gas fields will be earmarked for lower council taxes or community projects within the local authority being developed.
– There will be no new subsidies for wind farms and solar arrays.
– UKIP will abolish green taxes and charges in order to reduce fuel bills.
Agriculture and Fishing
– By leaving the EU, the UK will leave the Common Agricultural Policy. Outside the EU UKIP will institute a British Single Farm Payment for farms.
– UKIP will let the British parliament vote on GM foods.
– UKIP will leave the Common Fisheries Policy and reinstate British territorial waters.
– Foreign trawlers would have to apply for and purchase fishing permits to fish British waters when fish stocks have returned to sustainable levels.
– Food must be labelled to include the country of origin, method of production, method of slaughter, hormones and any genetic additives.
– UKIP will abolish the export of live animals for slaughter
Welfare and Childcare
– UKIP opposes the bedroom tax because it operates unfairly, penalising those who are unable to find alternative accommodation and taking insufficient account of the needs of families and the disabled.
– Child benefit is only to be paid to children permanently resident in the UK and future child benefit to be limited to the first two children only.
– UKIP will ensure there is an initial presumption of 50/50 shared parenting in child custody matters and grandparents will be given visitation rights.
– UKIP supports a simplified, streamlined welfare system and a benefit cap.
Transport
– We will scrap HS2.
– UKIP opposes tolls on public roads and will let existing contracts for running toll roads expire.
– UKIP will maintain pensioner bus passes.
– UKIP will require foreign vehicles to purchase a Britdisc, before entry to the UK, in order to contribute to the upkeep of UK roads and any lost fuel duty.
– UKIP will ensure that speed cameras are used as a deterrent and not as a revenue raiser for local authorities.
Housing and planning
– UKIP will protect the Green Belt.
– Planning rules in the NPPF will be changed to make it easier to build on brownfield sites instead of greenfield sites. Central government is to list the nationally available brownfield sites for development and issue low-interest bonds to enable decontamination.
– Houses on brownfield sites will be exempt from Stamp Duty on first sale and VAT relaxed for redevelopment of brownfield sites.
– Planning Permission for large-scale developments can be overturned by a referendum triggered by the signatures of 5% of the District or Borough electors collected within three months.
Democracy and the Constitution
– UKIP will overcome the unfairness of MPs from devolved nations voting on English-only issues.
– UKIP supports the recall of MPs as was originally promised in the Coalition Agreement, whereby 20% of the electorate in a constituency must sign a recall petition within eight weeks. The approval of MPs will not be required to initiate a recall petition.
– UKIP will introduce the Citizens’ Initiative to allow the public to initiate national referendums on issues of major public interest.
Law and Order
– UKIP will withdraw from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights.
– UKIP will reverse the government’s opt-in to EU law and justice measures, including the European Arrest Warrant and European Investigation Order. We will replace the EAW with appropriate bi-lateral agreements.
– UKIP will not give prisoners the vote.
– UKIP believes that full sentences should be served and this should be taken into account when criminals are convicted and sentenced in court. Parole should be available for good behaviour on a case-by-case basis, not systematically.
– We will repeal the Human Rights Act and replace it with a new British Bill of Rights. The interests of law-abiding citizens & victims will always take precedence over those of criminals.
Culture
– UKIP recognises and values an overarching, unifying British culture, which is open and inclusive to anyone who wishes to identify with Britain and British values, regardless of their ethnic or religious background.
– Official documents will be published in English and, where appropriate Welsh and Scots Gaelic.
– UKIP will ensure that the law is rigorously enforced in relation to ‘cultural’ practices which are illegal in Britain, such as forced marriages, FGM and so-called ‘honour killings’
– We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.
– UKIP will amend the smoking ban to give pubs and clubs the choice to open smoking rooms properly ventilated and separated from non-smoking areas.
– UKIP opposes ‘plain paper packaging’ for tobacco products and minimum pricing of alcohol.
Employment and Small Businesses
– Businesses should be able to discriminate in favour of young British workers.
– Repeal the Agency Workers Directive.
– Conduct a skills review to better inform our education system and qualifications
– Encourage councils to provide more free parking for the high street.
– Simplify planning regulations and licences for empty commercial property vacant for over a year.
– Extend the right of appeal for micro businesses against HMRC action.
NicD said:
Greg66 said:
Always remember: this thread exists solely for the dozen or so Kipperati that keep it going.
If this thread exists soley for supporters of UKIP to swap ideas, then why do we see so many rabid, phlegm stained attack posts?Don't you have anyone else to argue with?
Just asking.
Meanwhile other threads started for people to promote other parties are notable by their absence or excessive tumbleweed.
NicD said:
What a UKIP Government will do:
Protecting jobs and increasing prosperity
– We would negotiate a bespoke trade agreement with the EU to enable our businesses to continue trading to mutual advantage.
– UKIP would not seek to remain in the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) or European Economic Area (EEA) while those treaties maintain a principle of free movement of labour, which prevents the UK managing its own borders.
Populist nonsense most of which is a wish list rather than deliverable policies. Take the above two statements, the EU is very likely to say that free movement of labour is an integral part of the EU constitution and any trade agreement must be conditional upon the UK accepting it, what kind of bespoke trade agreement would they negotiate then? It's very reminiscent of the SNP statement that the UK would have to go along with 'the settled will of the Scottish people' in the event of a yes vote in the independence referendum without considering the rUK's right to say fProtecting jobs and increasing prosperity
– We would negotiate a bespoke trade agreement with the EU to enable our businesses to continue trading to mutual advantage.
– UKIP would not seek to remain in the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) or European Economic Area (EEA) while those treaties maintain a principle of free movement of labour, which prevents the UK managing its own borders.
k off, which is what the rEU is likely to tell our negotiators when we issue our demands.RYH64E said:
NicD said:
What a UKIP Government will do:
Protecting jobs and increasing prosperity
– We would negotiate a bespoke trade agreement with the EU to enable our businesses to continue trading to mutual advantage.
– UKIP would not seek to remain in the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) or European Economic Area (EEA) while those treaties maintain a principle of free movement of labour, which prevents the UK managing its own borders.
Populist nonsense most of which is a wish list rather than deliverable policies. Take the above two statements, the EU is very likely to say that free movement of labour is an integral part of the EU constitution and any trade agreement must be conditional upon the UK accepting it, what kind of bespoke trade agreement would they negotiate then? It's very reminiscent of the SNP statement that the UK would have to go along with 'the settled will of the Scottish people' in the event of a yes vote in the independence referendum without considering the rUK's right to say fProtecting jobs and increasing prosperity
– We would negotiate a bespoke trade agreement with the EU to enable our businesses to continue trading to mutual advantage.
– UKIP would not seek to remain in the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) or European Economic Area (EEA) while those treaties maintain a principle of free movement of labour, which prevents the UK managing its own borders.
k off, which is what the rEU is likely to tell our negotiators when we issue our demands.As has been said on the other thread. How are going to UKIP going to negotiate this free trade agreement with the EU when:
Norway had to accept most of the EU legislation (including free movement of people) and contribute to the EU (80% of the amount per head the UK does) before it could get the free trade deals - with no say, no veto and fewer advantages
Switzerland also had to accept most of the regulations and contributes to the EU - and STILL has duties when exporting to EU
The US has duties even though the EU has a much much bigger trade surplus with them than us. A trade agreement has been decades in negotiation.
Free trade in services (which is part of free trade) is quite dependent on free movement of people, to which UKIP object
It is nonsense to suggest that the UK, having upset the EU, is going to magic an agreement out of thin air that Norway, Switzerland and the US (among many others) have not managed.
Norway had to accept most of the EU legislation (including free movement of people) and contribute to the EU (80% of the amount per head the UK does) before it could get the free trade deals - with no say, no veto and fewer advantages
Switzerland also had to accept most of the regulations and contributes to the EU - and STILL has duties when exporting to EU
The US has duties even though the EU has a much much bigger trade surplus with them than us. A trade agreement has been decades in negotiation.
Free trade in services (which is part of free trade) is quite dependent on free movement of people, to which UKIP object
It is nonsense to suggest that the UK, having upset the EU, is going to magic an agreement out of thin air that Norway, Switzerland and the US (among many others) have not managed.
JustAnotherLogin said:
As has been said on the other thread. How are going to UKIP going to negotiate this free trade agreement with the EU when:
Norway had to accept most of the EU legislation (including free movement of people) and contribute to the EU (80% of the amount per head the UK does) before it could get the free trade deals - with no say, no veto and fewer advantages
Switzerland also had to accept most of the regulations and contributes to the EU - and STILL has duties when exporting to EU
The US has duties even though the EU has a much much bigger trade surplus with them than us. A trade agreement has been decades in negotiation.
Free trade in services (which is part of free trade) is quite dependent on free movement of people, to which UKIP object
It is nonsense to suggest that the UK, having upset the EU, is going to magic an agreement out of thin air that Norway, Switzerland and the US (among many others) have not managed.
I'd guess that UKIP will have to shift its ideological position around both in regards to the idea of its present support of the UK federation and that of the defintion of 'free trade'.Norway had to accept most of the EU legislation (including free movement of people) and contribute to the EU (80% of the amount per head the UK does) before it could get the free trade deals - with no say, no veto and fewer advantages
Switzerland also had to accept most of the regulations and contributes to the EU - and STILL has duties when exporting to EU
The US has duties even though the EU has a much much bigger trade surplus with them than us. A trade agreement has been decades in negotiation.
Free trade in services (which is part of free trade) is quite dependent on free movement of people, to which UKIP object
It is nonsense to suggest that the UK, having upset the EU, is going to magic an agreement out of thin air that Norway, Switzerland and the US (among many others) have not managed.
IE so called 'free trade' based on the idea of blackmail in being forced to accept a trade deficit situation,without the right of opt out regarding tarrifs and quotas to enforce a situation of at least trade balance.Or that forces the loss of national sovereignty by federal government over issues of national interest such as enforced loss of sovereignty over national immigration policy.Is not 'free trade' at all.It is simply blackmail and assuming we join Switzerland and Norway in a stronger EFTA that would obviously be a game changer in the bargaining strength of that organisation over the EU bearing in mind the importance of the UK market to EU exporters even assuming that market is reduced to an enforced situation of trade balance rather than deficit.
As for its continuing support of the UK federation it seems obvious that means being tied to a socialist alliance in the form of LabLibdemSNP at best.In addition to being a contradiction in the case of a supposedly ideologically anti federalist Party.In which case in addition to re evaluating its definitions of 'free trade' UKIP really needs to turn into an English independence orientated party.
Tesco's and other have been saying that for a while..
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mc...
Some interesting numbers in that article.
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mc...
Some interesting numbers in that article.
FiF said:
Good luck with pointing that out eddieo.
I reflect on the knockers on these threads, what can we call them? Against-UKIP perhapsI reflect on what motivates them to be so sure of what they don't like, little evidence of what policies they support, and why they get so frankly nasty with it.
All I can think of, is a visceral belief in whatever they believe in, combined with incredulity that we (pro-UKIP) could doubt it, and worse derail it.
You cannot collectivise them as they are each individuals with different responses, but over all, it is not a pretty picture.
Would be nice, if posters simply said what and who (politically) they believed in, without the attempts to belittle and insult.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff