UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[steveT350C]

Mrr T said:

steveT350C said:

Farage has said in the past that if he does not get a seat in 2015 he would stand down as leader.

Old news

Thanks I was not aware of that.

Does put him under a lot of pressure to get it right. Still only expect 2/3 UKIP MP's in 2015, including Carswell.

Even if he does not get a seat, I think the UKIP massive will want him to remain.

Besides, UKIP still hold the majority of MEPs

[JustAnotherLogin]

steveT350C said:

Mrr T said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

Mrr T said:

Might change when Carswell replaces Nigel as leader.

What are the procedures within UKIP for selecting, challenging, replacing the leader?

No idea. However, if Nigel is not elected to the HOC in May 2015 and Carswell is then I cannot see how a party can operate where the leader is not in the HOC.

Farage has said in the past that if he does not get a seat in 2015 he would stand down as leader.

Old news

Has he? I've seen that he has said he would stand down if they won't win any seats, but not anything that says he will stand down if he personally doesn't win. The 2 migt have been equated in the past, but less so now.

Makes sense that he would have to stand down though.

I suspect that much as I personally am not keen on Farage, UKIP would not do as well under Carswell or any other obvious contender. So the scenario where UKIP win seats, but Farage loses could be turbulent for UKIP

[Claudia Skies]

I can't stand UKIP and I can't stand Farage.

However, there's not the slightest doubt that Farage is the face of UKIP and it would be much weaker without him.

[Scuffers]

Claudia Skies said:

I can't stand UKIP and I can't stand Farage.

out of interest, why?

(genuine question)

[FiF]

JustAnotherLogin said:

steveT350C said:

Mrr T said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

Mrr T said:

Might change when Carswell replaces Nigel as leader.

What are the procedures within UKIP for selecting, challenging, replacing the leader?

No idea. However, if Nigel is not elected to the HOC in May 2015 and Carswell is then I cannot see how a party can operate where the leader is not in the HOC.

Farage has said in the past that if he does not get a seat in 2015 he would stand down as leader.

Old news

Has he? I've seen that he has said he would stand down if they won't win any seats, but not anything that says he will stand down if he personally doesn't win. The 2 migt have been equated in the past, but less so now.

Makes sense that he would have to stand down though.

I suspect that much as I personally am not keen on Farage, UKIP would not do as well under Carswell or any other obvious contender. So the scenario where UKIP win seats, but Farage loses could be turbulent for UKIP

Yes his promise was based on Ukip not winning a single seat in 2015 not based on him not winning wherever he chose to stand.

We might see what happens when a leader loses his seat if Clegg tanks in Sheffield Hallam.

[Hooli]

Good to see adecent party with common sense finally wining a seat, here's hoping they win a lot more.

[Scuffers]

well, if UKIP are virus-ist then I am all for it.

for example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1085446/HI...

(yes, I know it's a bit old, but kind of makes the point rather well)

[Kermit power]

It seems Farage is to jettison his integrity today by inviting MPs to switch parties without then immediately resigning their seats to trigger a by-election.

[Mrr T]

Scuffers said:

Mrr T said:

Scuffers said:

PRTVR said:

Just what I was thinking, my guess is most are pensioners in Spain.

and it would be suicide for the Spanish (region) to kick them out

Typical kipper assumes that all those poor foreigner must love us.

UK pensioner are a major issue for many Spanish because the demand they place on the Spanish health care system. Estimates are hard to come by but many is Spain consider the benefits of UK retires is far out weighted by the costs of health care.

Many would welcome the opportunity to throw them out. There view is that not only might it save money but it would reduce house prices.

total tosh.

the vast majority of retired people out there have taken a shed load of cash with them, brought houses/land/etc. and pay their own way.

without their money, some of these places would just not exist, Take Marbella, without the brit's exactly what would it be?

Now demonstrate how the same can be said for any place in the UK?

Your evidence for that?

No I did not think you had any. I said evidence is not clear.

However, it is clear the older you are the more health care you need, and health care is expensive.

As for going out with shed loads of money most go and buy a house then live off pensions and savings.

Now again evidence is minimal but since taxes are higher in Spain its maybe beneficial for for them to pay tax in the UK and not Spain.

Since UK pensioners resident in Spain are entitled to health care in Spain I assume many with just declare their UK state pension as income.

So their only contribution to Spanish taxes are minimal tax payments and VAT on goods they buy.

You will find if you scan Spanish papers there are many who believe UK pensioners costs the Spanish Tax payer a fortune and would be glad to see the back of them.

[Esseesse]

Kermit power said:

It seems Farage is to jettison his integrity today by inviting MPs to switch parties without then immediately resigning their seats to trigger a by-election.

If within 6 months of a GE, when an MP resigns is it not the case that the seat is left vacant (i.e. no by-election triggered)?

[Scuffers]

Mrr T said:

Your evidence for that?.

you have never been there have you?

if you want evidence, go look for yourself, then come back and tell us how the Spanish are paying for it!

[steveT350C]

FiF said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

steveT350C said:

Mrr T said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

Mrr T said:

Might change when Carswell replaces Nigel as leader.

What are the procedures within UKIP for selecting, challenging, replacing the leader?

No idea. However, if Nigel is not elected to the HOC in May 2015 and Carswell is then I cannot see how a party can operate where the leader is not in the HOC.

Farage has said in the past that if he does not get a seat in 2015 he would stand down as leader.

Old news

Has he? I've seen that he has said he would stand down if they won't win any seats, but not anything that says he will stand down if he personally doesn't win. The 2 migt have been equated in the past, but less so now.

Makes sense that he would have to stand down though.

I suspect that much as I personally am not keen on Farage, UKIP would not do as well under Carswell or any other obvious contender. So the scenario where UKIP win seats, but Farage loses could be turbulent for UKIP

Yes his promise was based on Ukip not winning a single seat in 2015 not based on him not winning wherever he chose to stand.

We might see what happens when a leader loses his seat if Clegg tanks in Sheffield Hallam.

My mistake, sorry

[steveT350C]

[DJRC]

Guam said:

DJRC said:

Because Guam I keep making the point over and over again and it keeps being ignored...we actually contribute massively to the uk economy. The vast vast amount of that earned income gets exported straight back into the uk economy. It is millions of pounds that is invested on income that is essentially stolen from foreign economies. It is a much larger amount than that which is exported from uk economy by immigrants because we earn a fk load more!

I would need to see figures on that, I have family members who decamped and have been living and working in Europe for years and they contribute sweet FA to the UK economy, they only come back here for a holiday or medical treatment when it isnt available locally, a lot of that two million are full on expats I would expect whose lives are fully integrated abroad. I surmise (from my personal experience) a small percentage of them are like you (and I sympathise with your predicament), on that arent you in Switzerland now? If I remember that correctly it would make sod all difference to you no?

Haven't got a clue what the actual predicament is that you were talking about to be honest, I ignored that bit, I was only interested in trying to correct this perception. I am in the fairly unique position on ph of having a foot in the "retired uk expats living abroad" camp and the working expats abroad as my family has lived to an extent in France for over 20yrs amongst the resident ex pats abroad and now a retired generation. And of course I schlep around Europe being a working we.
The resident ex pat community, inc the retired ones are very rarely a totally divorced entity from the uk, of all I've known in the French brigade I can think of only one couple in over twenty yrs and hundreds I've known, and even they still have property investments in the uk and pay tax. Everybody else has their finances in the uk. The working ex pats pretty much all do, even those of us with Swiss bank accounts.
Even my bloody brother who is a right real husband of Orange County job these days keeps his barclaycard and accounts active over here.

This is the reality of economics of ex pat life. Retired and working.

[Mrr T]

Scuffers said:

you have never been there have you?

if you want evidence, go look for yourself, then come back and tell us how the Spanish are paying for it!

Are you really suggesting the average UK retiree moving to Spain will buy an apartment on the Marbella water front, have a yacht in the marina and frequent the Gucci shop?

[Scuffers]

Mrr T said:

Scuffers said:

you have never been there have you?

if you want evidence, go look for yourself, then come back and tell us how the Spanish are paying for it!

Are you really suggesting the average UK retiree moving to Spain will buy an apartment on the Marbella water front, have a yacht in the marina and frequent the Gucci shop?

like I said, you have clearly never been there.

yes, not everybody lives there, but hell, there are a shed load that do, and spend BIG.

it's probbaly the best known place like this but it's not the only one.

Most of the brits retired to Spain are far from poor, I very much doubt any significant number of them cost the Spanish Jack.

[Art0ir]

JustAnotherLogin said:

I doubt that agreement will be reached on here, but we won't really know until the GE. At the very least I agree that it will make politics over the next year more interesting

I'll drink to that

[Kermit power]

Esseesse said:

Kermit power said:

It seems Farage is to jettison his integrity today by inviting MPs to switch parties without then immediately resigning their seats to trigger a by-election.

If within 6 months of a GE, when an MP resigns is it not the case that the seat is left vacant (i.e. no by-election triggered)?

I believe the regulations say it can be, not that it must be, but either way, it's a pretty cynical play to make.

[BlackLabel]

Kermit power said:

It seems Farage is to jettison his integrity today by inviting MPs to switch parties without then immediately resigning their seats to trigger a by-election.

7 May 2015 is the date of the next general election - there will come a point after Xmas where it just won't be possible to have a by-election if someone defects.

Does anyone know what election law says about this? If someone defects in say March or April can you still have a by-election?

edit - ah question answered above I see.

Edited by BlackLabel on Friday 10th October 16:27

[Esseesse]

Kermit power said:

Esseesse said:

Kermit power said:

It seems Farage is to jettison his integrity today by inviting MPs to switch parties without then immediately resigning their seats to trigger a by-election.

If within 6 months of a GE, when an MP resigns is it not the case that the seat is left vacant (i.e. no by-election triggered)?

I believe the regulations say it can be, not that it must be, but either way, it's a pretty cynical play to make.

Who makes that decision? Quite likely somebody who doesn't want to see a defector re-elected for UKIP.