UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[Mojocvh]

Zod said:

dandarez said:

What the hell do you mean? All UKIP and Kippers get is criticism. We don't mind it at all!
It's YOU and your ilk who mind.
You mind, and you do mind, because despite all the flack and criticism concentrated towards us/Ukip, nothing, but nothing so far has halted this 'protest movement'

...has it?

Well, yes. No growth in support in the last year. I'd call that a bit of a halt.

Posted on what date

[paulrockliffe]

There's too much political capital to be made from pretending to be more 'NHS' than the other guys for a sensible debate on charging for health related stuff to be possible unfortunately.

Personally I'd be broadly in favour of paying to see a GP, perhaps everyone gets two free appointments each year and appointments linked to chronic health issues are free too, something like that. GPs shouldn't be paid for registrations though, they should be paid based on capacity.

I saw that the labour Mayor of Bishop Aukland has moved to UKIP today:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labo...

[Gaspode]

Mojocvh said:

Thanks for pointing out the fallacy of continued EU membership, you're not a member of the SNP are you by any chance?

No, just someone who has spent a considerable amount of time in Europe over the years, and has realised that we're better off being part of it than apart from it.

[Zod]

Gaspode said:

Mojocvh said:

Thanks for pointing out the fallacy of continued EU membership, you're not a member of the SNP are you by any chance?

No, just someone who has spent a considerable amount of time in Europe over the years, and has realised that we're better off being part of it than apart from it.

I don't think a single one of my Dutch, German, Spanish or French friends wants more federalisation in Europe and they all understand why we will not join the Euro. They don't want us out of the EU though.

[Scuffers]

paulrockliffe said:

There's too much political capital to be made from pretending to be more 'NHS' than the other guys for a sensible debate on charging for health related stuff to be possible unfortunately.

Personally I'd be broadly in favour of paying to see a GP, perhaps everyone gets two free appointments each year and appointments linked to chronic health issues are free too, something like that. GPs shouldn't be paid for registrations though, they should be paid based on capacity.

Let's be honest here, most of the current issues with A&E are a direct result of the GP's contracts done by Labour.

the way this has panned out is that GP's have abdicated out of hours work and anything that requires more than a 9-5 desk job, leaving A&E to pick up the tab.

combine this with local authorities abdicating responsibility for social care services and yet more target culture, and there you have it.

At some point we as a country need to realise that we simply cannot afford to fund the NHS like this, something has to change.

[Zod]

Scuffers said:

Let's be honest here, most of the current issues with A&E are a direct result of the GP's contracts done by Labour.

the way this has panned out is that GP's have abdicated out of hours work and anything that requires more than a 9-5 desk job, leaving A&E to pick up the tab.

combine this with local authorities abdicating responsibility for social care services and yet more target culture, and there you have it.

At some point we as a country need to realise that we simply cannot afford to fund the NHS like this, something has to change.

I couldn't agree more, but how do we change attitudes? It's political suicide to advocate the kind of change that is needed.

[Mojocvh]

Zod said:

Gaspode said:

Mojocvh said:

Thanks for pointing out the fallacy of continued EU membership, you're not a member of the SNP are you by any chance?

No, just someone who has spent a considerable amount of time in Europe over the years, and has realised that we're better off being part of it than apart from it.

I don't think a single one of my Dutch, German, Spanish or French friends wants more federalisation in Europe.

Well all those friends are going to be a bit disillusioned then.

[dandarez]

LABOUR Mayor (with surname 'Race', that should come in handy!) who has defected to UKIP.

Note ...'LABOUR'.

Who will halt this tide?
Time is starting to run out Zod.

I love this!
'Labour town councillor Ann Golightly said members did not know about Mr Race's decision until the meeting.

She said:
"As the Labour Party group of the council, we feel very disappointed and very let down because we'd actually elected him as mayor and thought he'd be a good mayor and a good representative.

And I love this bit even more!

[b]"What was most distressing was that the room was absolutely jammed full of UKIP members and it was very intimidating.

"We feel now that the council is a stage for the dubious policies of UKIP."[/b]

[NicD]

Zod said:

I don't think a single one of my Dutch, German, Spanish or French friends wants more federalisation in Europe and they all understand why we will not join the Euro. They don't want us out of the EU though.

Terrific, just advise them to lobby their leaders to get real on the UK demands instead of the 'take it or leave it attitude'.

[NicD]

Oh, and tell them stop spending so much of our money:

BRITAIN'S bill for membership of the European Union has been blasted as "out of control" after it was revealed Government borrowing shot up because of increased payments to Brussels.
Ukip have blasted the Government's payments to Brussels as "out of control"

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) today published figures showing how the Government shortfall rose to £13.1billion in December 2014 compared to £10.3billion the previous year.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/553561/Ukip...

[Yazar]

Zod said:

I don't think a single one of my Dutch, German, Spanish or French friends wants more federalisation

Which doesn't say a lot!

Do they not expect more federalization, or do they not want it but see it as an inevitable path?

[FiF]

allergictocheese said:

I'd be interested to know UKIP supporters' personal points of view. It'd then be interesting to see if UKIP's position matched their own. I don't expect that UKIP supporters have no opinion until the party has an official line.

FiF, what do you think about NHS funding? Should it remain as is, in that it's free at point of use, or should people expect to pay a contribution?

Sorry for slow reply, been busy.

Personally the NHS is already not free at the point of entry or delivery. Already covered.

Have lived in a country where in addition to parking charges and prescription charges you also were charged for a GP visit, and was also charged for emergency treatment at a district emergency unit. So I don't have an issue with some charging.

Clearly some aspects of the NHS are overloaded by certain parts of society to the detriment of the rest. The two most obvious areas are GPs and A&E. There's an argument that A&E is overloaded by the difficulty in getting a GP appointment. There's also an argument that in the archaic way the NHS operates that going to A&E is the most sensible thing to do if you wish to avoid the interminable reference for tests, wait for results, wait for appointment, reference to consultant, wait for appointment, sent for tests, wait for appointment. A&E, in the event it's something serious, then you're there, head of the queue.

However can see that charging is an issue for patients with chronic conditions especially low income families. There needs to be some way of dealing with this, but the debate needs to be held. The fear instilled in those who wish to have this debate is very much like that from the immigration issue or anything else perceived as politically incorrect.

On the subject of low income families clearly some would avoid seeing a gp and society needs to recognise and deal with this. The usual obnoxious PH approach is to decry these people as making poor life decisions and say life's a bh. Would they do that when faced with someone in that very position. Probably not.

[TKF]

Come on UKIP, is it immigrants or unemployed people that are clogging up our roads? It's so hard to keep up these days.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/1136...



"Common sense" Couldn't parody them better than they're doing!]

Edited by TKF on Thursday 22 January 18:39

[blindswelledrat]

That cant be real can it? Pass-time instead of pastime? Common sense?
I hope it is though.

[Bill]

Scuffers said:

Let's be honest here, most of the current issues with A&E are a direct result of the GP's contracts done by Labour.

the way this has panned out is that GP's have abdicated out of hours work and anything that requires more than a 9-5 desk job, leaving A&E to pick up the tab.

Sorry, but this is just nonsense. The vast majority of GPs have seen an increase in hours and a reduction in pay to the point that surgeries are going bust and GP jobs aren't being filled for months or even years.

[anonymous-user]

blindswelledrat said:

That cant be real can it? Pass-time instead of pastime? Common sense?
I hope it is though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-30931266

Mr Yates published the leaflet as part of a canvassing campaign for the general election, but UKIP has now suspended his candidature.

The BBC has tried to contact Mr Yates but he has not responded.

Mr Yates, who remains a Leicestershire county councillor for UKIP, also stated in the leaflet that he would send prisoners to overseas jails to reduce costs.

A statement from UKIP said: "Lynton Yates' views do not represent UKIP policy.

"He has apologised for any offence caused and was today suspended as a [general election] candidate."

[Scuffers]

Bill said:

Scuffers said:

Let's be honest here, most of the current issues with A&E are a direct result of the GP's contracts done by Labour.

the way this has panned out is that GP's have abdicated out of hours work and anything that requires more than a 9-5 desk job, leaving A&E to pick up the tab.

Sorry, but this is just nonsense. The vast majority of GPs have seen an increase in hours and a reduction in pay to the point that surgeries are going bust and GP jobs aren't being filled for months or even years.

OK, if that's the case, please elaborate on (1) what the problem(s) are and (2) why so many GP surgeries are massive now and employing doctors rather than them being partners?

(for example, my local surgery has gone from a medium sized partnership (of 7) to 8 partners, 9 employed doctors, another 4 registrars, 17 practice nurses, 18 admin staff and a practice manager and quite often have 2-3 locum doctors at any one time.

This also does not include the Dispensary (Pharmacy), with it's own staff.

This is for a small market town and is not the only practice in the town.

Looking at the car park, they are no underpaying themselves (in true PH style!)

[Bill]

What's the practice? And are you sure they haven't just merged?

[Scuffers]

Bill said:

What's the practice? And are you sure they haven't just merged?

Not saying, and yes, they have not merged, been a 'customer' for over 20 years.

[Bill]

Why not? I'm not going to look you up Its hard to say why they might be doing well without knowing some specifics. I know a number of GPs and have worked in a few practices and they are all feeling the pressure.