UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
Gaspode said:
Zod said:
Of course not. I am merely pointing out that such a test is a very blunt instrument and that many of those who were born here are of little economic worth. I'd rather take a chance on an immigrant than a long term dolesucker.
An Immigrant is prepared to leave everything familiar to them, travel thousands of miles to a strange country, often paying criminals to help them get here, in the knowledge that they will have to work extremely hard for rubbish pay in the hope of being able to carve out a better life for them than the one they have. I would think that people like that are almost axiomatically of more use to this country than ill-educated locals who refuse to work and claim that immigrants are taking all the jobs.The UK is portrayed to them by the smugglers as El Dorado.
Hence why they don't stop off at any other country along the way where they could also work hard for rubbish pay...
And if you ignore the headlines and look at the numbers, there are percentage wise very few who don't want to work. The ones who work but are in need of low pay support are the larger issue, a pool many migrants add to.
Edited by Yazar on Friday 30th January 13:39
Zod said:
Of course not. I am merely pointing out that such a test is a very blunt instrument and that many of those who were born here are of little economic worth. I'd rather take a chance on an immigrant than a long term dolesucker.
The dolesucker is a different problem. And it's our problem to deal with, we don't need any additional problems. Personally IMO the root of the dolesucker problem is overly generous benefits and importantly how long they're available for.Esseesse said:
The dolesucker is a different problem. And it's our problem to deal with, we don't need any additional problems. Personally IMO the root of the dolesucker problem is overly generous benefits and importantly how long they're available for.
I disagree. Its not about the overly generous benefit system. Its about the very nature of a system that rewards indolence and punishes aspiration. Mrr T said:
Esseesse said:
The dolesucker is a different problem. And it's our problem to deal with, we don't need any additional problems. Personally IMO the root of the dolesucker problem is overly generous benefits and importantly how long they're available for.
I disagree. Its not about the overly generous benefit system. Its about the very nature of a system that rewards indolence and punishes aspiration. Esseesse said:
The dolesucker is a different problem. And it's our problem to deal with, we don't need any additional problems. Personally IMO the root of the dolesucker problem is overly generous benefits and importantly how long they're available for.
We definitely seem to have a problem here. Out of work benefits seem to be way too high, acting as a dissuader from people finding work. This would also be a good way to address the 'Immigrant Eldorado' problem, if it exists - although the studies seem to show that the net economic impact of immigration is positive rather than negative. 
Gaspode said:
Esseesse said:
The dolesucker is a different problem. And it's our problem to deal with, we don't need any additional problems. Personally IMO the root of the dolesucker problem is overly generous benefits and importantly how long they're available for.
We definitely seem to have a problem here. Out of work benefits seem to be way too high, acting as a dissuader from people finding work. This would also be a good way to address the 'Immigrant Eldorado' problem, if it exists - although the studies seem to show that the net economic impact of immigration is positive rather than negative. I know this is not the case for all, but for some, they seem to really know how to milk the system.
chris watton said:
Gaspode said:
Esseesse said:
The dolesucker is a different problem. And it's our problem to deal with, we don't need any additional problems. Personally IMO the root of the dolesucker problem is overly generous benefits and importantly how long they're available for.
We definitely seem to have a problem here. Out of work benefits seem to be way too high, acting as a dissuader from people finding work. This would also be a good way to address the 'Immigrant Eldorado' problem, if it exists - although the studies seem to show that the net economic impact of immigration is positive rather than negative. I know this is not the case for all, but for some, they seem to really know how to milk the system.
Mojocvh said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
What I want for renegotiation and what we might get are different things.
As I have said before, if new immigrants cannot claim benefits for 5 years then I could live with that. That is I believe achievable.
So you DO NOT support limiting immigration to those who could prove to be of use to the country then?As I have said before, if new immigrants cannot claim benefits for 5 years then I could live with that. That is I believe achievable.
As for who gets the jobs, I trust private industry to decide "who is of use" far more effectively than I would central government
Gaspode said:
fatboy18 said:
ea, I feel really sorry for them, maybe I should give them my house and cars too 
They need to sort out their bloody problems in their own countries, making their own countries a better place for them to live with their families.
And if that means throwing out their own Governments, so be it! CLOSE THE BORDERS.
I'm not entirely sure that this policy would either (a) attract sufficient appeal in the electorate to be enacted or (b) not result in a massive deficit of people prepared to do crap jobs.They need to sort out their bloody problems in their own countries, making their own countries a better place for them to live with their families.
And if that means throwing out their own Governments, so be it! CLOSE THE BORDERS.
And what would you do with all the useless t
ts in this country who refuse to do the jobs currently done by immigrants?JustAnotherLogin said:
Mojocvh said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
What I want for renegotiation and what we might get are different things.
As I have said before, if new immigrants cannot claim benefits for 5 years then I could live with that. That is I believe achievable.
So you DO NOT support limiting immigration to those who could prove to be of use to the country then?As I have said before, if new immigrants cannot claim benefits for 5 years then I could live with that. That is I believe achievable.
As for who gets the jobs, I trust private industry to decide "who is of use" far more effectively than I would central government
There's none so blind who will not listen.
MGJohn said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
Mojocvh said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
What I want for renegotiation and what we might get are different things.
As I have said before, if new immigrants cannot claim benefits for 5 years then I could live with that. That is I believe achievable.
So you DO NOT support limiting immigration to those who could prove to be of use to the country then?As I have said before, if new immigrants cannot claim benefits for 5 years then I could live with that. That is I believe achievable.
As for who gets the jobs, I trust private industry to decide "who is of use" far more effectively than I would central government
There's none so blind who will not listen.
50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU most via asylum or family visas. Would you give them no benefits?
How about child benefit. This is paid to the mother. So British male marries non British woman and they have children, Both work but you would not pay any child benefit? How about British woman marries and has a child with a non British man? So now you would pay child benefit?
Mrr T said:
As with so many easy answers the questions are much more complex.
50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU most via asylum or family visas. Would you give them no benefits?
How about child benefit. This is paid to the mother. So British male marries non British woman and they have children, Both work but you would not pay any child benefit? How about British woman marries and has a child with a non British man? So now you would pay child benefit?
Oh I agree that I gave a broad brush stroke answer, but its in as much detail as, say, a UKIP policy statement50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU most via asylum or family visas. Would you give them no benefits?
How about child benefit. This is paid to the mother. So British male marries non British woman and they have children, Both work but you would not pay any child benefit? How about British woman marries and has a child with a non British man? So now you would pay child benefit?
But in short:
I would not (to both)
I would pay in both cases (the child is British after all)
Mrr T said:
As with so many easy answers the questions are much more complex.
50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU most via asylum or family visas. Would you give them no benefits?
How about child benefit. This is paid to the mother. So British male marries non British woman and they have children, Both work but you would not pay any child benefit? How about British woman marries and has a child with a non British man? So now you would pay child benefit?
One of the few UKIP policies I agree with is the principle that child benefit should be paid for the first two children only. I also think that in-work benefits (i.e. benefits to assist families who have at least one adult in work) should not be restricted in the same way as out-of-work benefits. That way you provide positive encouragement to people to get into work.50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU most via asylum or family visas. Would you give them no benefits?
How about child benefit. This is paid to the mother. So British male marries non British woman and they have children, Both work but you would not pay any child benefit? How about British woman marries and has a child with a non British man? So now you would pay child benefit?
JustAnotherLogin said:
this typical statement gets on my goat "The under-35s have grown up in a Britain that's been in the EU, they've probably got lots of friends from different ethnic backgrounds." so what, i bet i have more mates from different ethnic backgrounds than he does,the point he misses is there are many people from different ethnic backgrounds that actually support ukip.this was the right answer to the above nonsense.
Young Independence chair Jack Duffin agrees with UKIP's policies on the EU and immigration, but warns against focusing too heavily on these issues, saying they're they're "not the most important" themes in the party's agenda.
wc98 said:
Young Independence chair Jack Duffin agrees with UKIP's policies on the EU and immigration, but warns against focusing too heavily on these issues, saying they're they're "not the most important" themes in the party's agenda.
UKIP's policy is EU/immigration. They are entirely a one policy party. Everything else is just populist padding.Surely nobody is naive to believe otherwise?
wc98 said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
this typical statement gets on my goat "The under-35s have grown up in a Britain that's been in the EU, they've probably got lots of friends from different ethnic backgrounds." so what, i bet i have more mates from different ethnic backgrounds than he does,the point he misses is there are many people from different ethnic backgrounds that actually support ukip.this was the right answer to the above nonsense.
Young Independence chair Jack Duffin agrees with UKIP's policies on the EU and immigration, but warns against focusing too heavily on these issues, saying they're they're "not the most important" themes in the party's agenda.
Zod said:
Mojocvh said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
What I want for renegotiation and what we might get are different things.
As I have said before, if new immigrants cannot claim benefits for 5 years then I could live with that. That is I believe achievable.
So you DO NOT support limiting immigration to those who could prove to be of use to the country then?As I have said before, if new immigrants cannot claim benefits for 5 years then I could live with that. That is I believe achievable.
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