UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
rs1952 said:
Guam said:
This thread is like that Song in the Rocky Horror Picture show "Timewarp"
All we now see is the same attack dogs repeating the same stuff over and over again as if any responses will differ.
Frankly roll on the GE and then lets see how pissed off the average Joe is.
The constant bleating on this thread by the usual suspects will have its answer in some 95 days.
Bring it on I say!
Unusually I am going to agree with you All we now see is the same attack dogs repeating the same stuff over and over again as if any responses will differ.
Frankly roll on the GE and then lets see how pissed off the average Joe is.
The constant bleating on this thread by the usual suspects will have its answer in some 95 days.
Bring it on I say!
The UKIP thread is now on its third volume (is that 500 pages per volume? Can't remember) and most of it is going around in circles.
The UKIP - philes are going to stick to their beliefs no matter what
The anti-UKIP mob are going to stick to their beliefs no matter what
No views are going to be changed on either side, and we've now had at least 1200 pages of going round a series of mulberry bushes.
Yesterday I was reading an interesting article by somebody completely divorced from UK and indeed European politics (as I am South Africa at the moment). This journalist was mainly talking about domestic SA circumstances, and made the point that support for the ANC has fallen to such an extent that they may have to form a coalition after the next election (there may be areas in the UK where a dog turd wearing a blue or a red rosette could get elected, but that ain't nuthinn compared to SA politics since 1994 - the possible need for the ANC to look at coalition is big-time stuff down here)
The international point being made in the article was that this is an international phenomenon. Countries that have been used to one party rule (like SA) or two-party "ping pong" like the UK and the USA, to name but two examples, are finding that their voters are beginning to drift away to minor parties and, if those minor parties are strong enough to withstand the change (in essence meaning the additional scrutiny of the media when a fringe party becomes more mainstream, which in turn means them kicking out the nutters and starting to behave like a "real" political party) then these disparate voices will begin to be listened to as part of future coalitions.
But this in turn might lead to an interesting dilemma for UKIP and indeed UKIP supporters. All the other major parties in England, Wales and Scotland (don't know about NI) are all pretty staunchly pro-European. I accept that that is an arguable point amongst Tory back benchers but it is true for ministers.
This being the case, which other party or parties are likely to think that their interests, and those of their electors, are likely to be improved by a coalition with UKIP? It just started to strike me that a lab/ con coalition (and at least one has been known in local government - in Bristol about 25 years ago) is probably more likely than a con/ukip or lab/ukip coalition. What do the rest of PH think?
Just another angle to think about, for a little bit of a change for this thread
ks! vote UKIP and get Labour........can't fault a word of that 
2013BRM said:
bks! vote UKIP and get Labour........can't fault a word of that
That only makes sense in a small number of Conservative held seats.ks! vote UKIP and get Labour........can't fault a word of that Across the North of England, a vote for UKIP is the only realistic way to keep Labour out.
The LibDems won't do it. The Conservatives won't do it.
UKIP might just give Labour a kicking in their homeland.
TKF said:
Timsta said:
TKF said:
Stop trying to be coy. Your intentions are both clear as shown in all the UKIP fawning fests.
£50 says you both vote UKIP.
Whereas you and fellow travellers will no doubt put your cross where you always do. £50 says you both vote UKIP.
Am I wrong?
The general point that rs1952 makes above is quite correct that the movement away from single and two party politics is an international phenomenon.
The issue of pro or anti EU is less of an issue for UKIP than it is for other parties, with perhaps the exception of theLibDems.
LD have been consistently pro-EU for decades and I think their members are generally pro. However if one compares support for UKIP vs the general support for Brexit then there are clearly many Eurosceptic voters who support other parties.
That's a problem for them to manage dependent upon how important the European question is in the overall scheme of things.
It may not be high enough in the scale to be a factor in 2015GE, but again it's not just a UK phenomenon, it's seen more widely across Europe, though less so towards the East and not at all in those states who are biggest net beneficiaries, and Austria for some strange reason.
The issue of pro or anti EU is less of an issue for UKIP than it is for other parties, with perhaps the exception of theLibDems.
LD have been consistently pro-EU for decades and I think their members are generally pro. However if one compares support for UKIP vs the general support for Brexit then there are clearly many Eurosceptic voters who support other parties.
That's a problem for them to manage dependent upon how important the European question is in the overall scheme of things.
It may not be high enough in the scale to be a factor in 2015GE, but again it's not just a UK phenomenon, it's seen more widely across Europe, though less so towards the East and not at all in those states who are biggest net beneficiaries, and Austria for some strange reason.
Guam said:
TKF said:
Stop trying to be coy. Your intentions are both clear as shown in all the UKIP fawning fests.
£50 says you both vote UKIP.
Firstly I don't bet£50 says you both vote UKIP.
Second if I did the history of those like you making such claims is pretty poor when it comes to ponying up
Third I have never voted ukip in. A GE
Fourth I have stated what my particular issues are and my dislike of nick boles on the other thread
Local polling prior to the election will likely determine where I vote in May
If you are so certain u kip will be in with a good shout of kicking boles out in May then place that bet at a bookies
Labour are as likely to pick up my vote as ukip
Even though I detest the two faced lying buggers as I despise boles then my options are limited to get him fired
Unless you know better of course?
The offered bet is as fake as his old username? TheKirbyFake. Back to ignore.
Guam said:
TKF said:
Stop trying to be coy. Your intentions are both clear as shown in all the UKIP fawning fests.
£50 says you both vote UKIP.
Firstly I don't bet£50 says you both vote UKIP.
Second if I did the history of those like you making such claims is pretty poor when it comes to ponying up
Third I have never voted ukip in. A GE
Fourth I have stated what my particular issues are and my dislike of nick boles on the other thread
Local polling prior to the election will likely determine where I vote in May
If you are so certain u kip will be in with a good shout of kicking boles out in May then place that bet at a bookies
Labour are as likely to pick up my vote as ukip
Even though I detest the two faced lying buggers as I despise boles then my options are limited to get him fired
Unless you know better of course?
Guam said:
TKF said:
What a weird reply to things I didn't say. You will be voting UKIP in May. Anyone who's seen your Pavlovian response to any thread involving UKIP also knows you'll be voting UKIP in May.
Only in the febrile imaginings of you and those like youAs I said to some of the other serial baiters on this thread
Answer this paradox
Show me a party that guarantees a referendum on the EU
Will repeal the Climate change act
And has some prospect of kicking out Nick Boles and. I will vote for them
Doubtless you can provide the answer otherwise you would look like a troll which I doubt you are
Democracy was, is and always will be about picking the least worst option. To you that's obviously UKIP, even if you're ashamed to admit it.
TKF said:
FiF said:
The offered bet is as fake as his old username? TheKirbyFake. Back to ignore.
What is it with your continued obsession with an old username? It's really rather creepy and stalkerish.However you, completely out of the blue, and without any post from me addressed in your direction for months, maybe even best part of a year now, issued a direct challenge at Guam and myself.
I consider that challenge to be fake, not least because it's illegal to bring it to a conclusion complete with proof. Therefore felt it amusing that a clearly fake obvious baiting is obvious challenge had been issued by someone who used to identify themselves as a fake. Hope that helps.
Maybe you would have just preferred a response involving Arkell v Pressdram. Certainly shorter, less wasted bandwidth.
Edited by FiF on Wednesday 4th February 13:29
Guam said:
As for the other aspects such as the EU referendum and demanding equal treatment for the UK electorate, to that offered to every other voter in Europe, I am not seeing how that is selfish either, feel free to enlighten us all as to how either of those is not considering the "greater good" as you infer?
I assuming you are referring to the ratification of the Lisbon treaty. In which case the UK electorate was offered exactly the treatment as voters in all the EU countries except Ireland who got a referendum. FiF said:
TKF said:
FiF said:
The offered bet is as fake as his old username? TheKirbyFake. Back to ignore.
What is it with your continued obsession with an old username? It's really rather creepy and stalkerish.However you, completely out of the blue, and without any post from me addressed in your direction for months, maybe even best part of a year now, issued a direct challenge at Guam and myself.
I consider that challenge to be fake, not least because it's illegal to bring it to a conclusion complete with proof. Therefore felt it amusing that a clearly fake obvious baiting is obvious challenge had been issued by someone who used to identify themselves as a fake. Hope that helps.
Maybe you would have just preferred a response involving Arkell v Pressdram. Certainly shorter, less wasted bandwidth.
Regardless, I just find it weird that you'd call someone by a username not used for over 5yrs. What are you trying to prove by doing it?
FiF said:
I consider that challenge to be fake, not least because it's illegal to bring it to a conclusion complete with proof. Therefore felt it amusing that a clearly fake obvious baiting is obvious challenge had been issued by someone who used to identify themselves as a fake. Hope that helps.
Just absurd. You're bothered about the laws surrounding a gentleman's bet???Guam said:
Oh was there a referendum which I missed then?
Silly me everyone in Europe got a vote (some got two) and yet I missed ours.
How Careless of me!
A list of referenda during the various phases of the development of the EU is here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_t...
One was planned here it says but never held, and there was I thinking I had missed it!
IIRC this is because they renamed and reworded the constitutional treaty and Gordon declared that one was no longer necessary.Silly me everyone in Europe got a vote (some got two) and yet I missed ours.
How Careless of me!
A list of referenda during the various phases of the development of the EU is here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_t...
One was planned here it says but never held, and there was I thinking I had missed it!
Edited by Guam on Wednesday 4th February 14:53
Telegraph said:
EU treaty: Leaders praise Gordon Brown's courage
European Union leaders have heaped praise on Gordon Brown's "courage" in keeping the Lisbon Treaty alive by ignoring Ireland's No vote and UK public opinion to complete Britain's ratification.
European Union leaders have heaped praise on Gordon Brown's "courage" in keeping the Lisbon Treaty alive by ignoring Ireland's No vote and UK public opinion to complete Britain's ratification.
Guam said:
Oh was there a referendum which I missed then?
Silly me everyone in Europe got a vote (some got two) and yet I missed ours.
How Careless of me!
A list of referenda during the various phases of the development of the EU is here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_t...
One was planned here it says but never held, and there was I thinking I had missed it!
If you post a link you really should read it!!!Silly me everyone in Europe got a vote (some got two) and yet I missed ours.
How Careless of me!
A list of referenda during the various phases of the development of the EU is here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_t...
One was planned here it says but never held, and there was I thinking I had missed it!
Only Ireland had a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, well they actually had 2.
As for other EU countries very few have had referendums on treaties.
If you take out votes on ascension only Denmark and Ireland have had regular referendums.
France has had 2, the UK 1 and the rest including Germany none.
As for a referendum on the Lisbon treaty this was only practical before it was signed. Since it was signed before the coalition came to power any referendum would have been a waste of money and a distraction in a time of economic crisis.
TKF said:
Always amusing when people use "myself" in a misjudged attempt to sound clever.
Regardless, I just find it weird that you'd call someone by a username not used for over 5yrs. What are you trying to prove by doing it?
If your only point is the use of one word that wasn't any attempt at sounding anything then you really are the pointless waste of time that you appear to be. Bye.Regardless, I just find it weird that you'd call someone by a username not used for over 5yrs. What are you trying to prove by doing it?
Someone else has learned that sneering at UKIP is not always the best policy.
This time it is Sarah Champion - a Labour MP in Rotheram.
She tweeted that she thought that it was hilarious that Nigel was trapped inside Rotheram's UKIP office by an angry mob. She accused him of "rubbernecking" Rotheram's problems.
There has been a bit of a backlash - http://order-order.com/2015/02/06/rotherham-mp-far...
Of course, the opposite to "rubbernecking" is "turning a blind eye".
Well done Sarah. Nobody could accuse you of "rubbernecking".
South Yorkshire Police also performed up to their usual standard. They made no effort at all to move the small, but aggressive, crowd away from the front of the UKIP office. There are easily enforceable laws against harassment and intimidation. These laws were ignored today.
This time it is Sarah Champion - a Labour MP in Rotheram.
She tweeted that she thought that it was hilarious that Nigel was trapped inside Rotheram's UKIP office by an angry mob. She accused him of "rubbernecking" Rotheram's problems.
There has been a bit of a backlash - http://order-order.com/2015/02/06/rotherham-mp-far...
Of course, the opposite to "rubbernecking" is "turning a blind eye".
Well done Sarah. Nobody could accuse you of "rubbernecking".
South Yorkshire Police also performed up to their usual standard. They made no effort at all to move the small, but aggressive, crowd away from the front of the UKIP office. There are easily enforceable laws against harassment and intimidation. These laws were ignored today.
don4l said:
South Yorkshire Police also performed up to their usual standard. They made no effort at all to move the small, but aggressive, crowd away from the front of the UKIP office. There are easily enforceable laws against harassment and intimidation. These laws were ignored today.
I'm getting heartily sick of the way that mobs appear to be encouraged to shout down and prevent politicians being heard, every time a politician is told to stay indoors the mob win. We saw it in the Scottish referendum and this was a perfect example of the same thing. As for the latest centrally-approved labour MP finding it hilarious, words fail me. wolves_wanderer said:
don4l said:
South Yorkshire Police also performed up to their usual standard. They made no effort at all to move the small, but aggressive, crowd away from the front of the UKIP office. There are easily enforceable laws against harassment and intimidation. These laws were ignored today.
I'm getting heartily sick of the way that mobs appear to be encouraged to shout down and prevent politicians being heard, every time a politician is told to stay indoors the mob win. We saw it in the Scottish referendum and this was a perfect example of the same thing. As for the latest centrally-approved labour MP finding it hilarious, words fail me. Of course, that is how some unions operate on their normal strike intimidation basis.
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