UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[NoNeed]

Scuffers said:

yes, polite but wrong.

Common law is not unwritten, it's just not instigated by an act of parliament or the like.

Common law has evolved with every high court judgment (as precedents are set).

I don't want to stick to this point forever so please forgive me if this is becoming daft, but if it is written why can't I find it?

Is google just st lol

[Scuffers]

NoNeed said:

I don't want to stick to this point forever so please forgive me if this is becoming daft, but if it is written why can't I find it?

Is google just st lol

because there is no (single) book with all the common laws written down.

if you're really that interested, it's out there, http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ is a good place to start, (http://www.hmcourts-service.com/ too)

[McWigglebum4th]

TKF said:

McWigglebum4th said:

TKF said:

Regardless it's yet another example of UKIP having to say sorry for yet another political blunder. I almost feel sorry for Farage sometimes.

You want real people in politics

Expect real mistakes


You want plastic cutouts who never say anything outside the party line

Then vote Tory

Real mistakes

Yep, that pretty much describes UKIP. It could almost be their tagline.

As it happens if your "real people" are ones that get a little racist and homophobic when they're on painkillers, or blame flooding on gay marriage, or want gays to be cured by doctors, or say immigrants will be returned home, or talk about EU migrants taking jobs whilst employing EU migrants, or sing Calypsos, or post on the BNP website how gays are perverts and paedophiles, and dozens of other examples, then, well, you can keep your "real people".

You are right

I will vote tory as David Cameron loves everyone and has never ever used a rude world

And even better

He is inflatable and comes with a puncture repair kit

[Timsta]

NoNeed said:

Frist line of law and order. UKIP will withdraw from the european court of human rights http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people



and in addition

We will repeal the Human Rights Act and replace it with a new British Bill of Rights. The interests of law-abiding citizens & victims will always take precedence over those of criminals.

Edited by NoNeed on Sunday 8th February 12:31

That's withdrawing from ECHR. I have no issue with that.

As for a bill of rights that moves the power back to the victims, I've no problem with that either.

[NicD]

allergictocheese said:

NicD said:

Fatuous.

Was he not prevented from freedom of movement by a group of self interested bullies?
How can you defend this?

It was on the advice of the Police that Farage didn't do his ribbon cutting. Being the ever popular, man of the people, Farage had a hate mob outside who he felt wanted to kick him in. Like the ones in Swansea and Edinburgh.

Considering this is the fourth time this has happened in 10 months, most people would have learned from the experiences. Yet Farage keeps doing the same thing again and again.

Of course, you could say it's his human right to do what he's doing, however UKIP wants to withdraw from human rights, so it's a bit glib wanting to be protected by something you supposedly (puts finger in the air to check which way wind is blowing today) fundamentally disagree with.

So Mr 'Farage had a hate mob outside who he felt wanted to kick him in. '

Nice, these bullies are just the sort of ste that should be locked up for a long time.

and 'however UKIP wants to withdraw from human rights,'

Really, in what cheese planet is that? try, the ECHR, rather different.

[allergictocheese]

NicD said:

So Mr 'Farage had a hate mob outside who he felt wanted to kick him in. '

Nice, these bullies are just the sort of ste that should be locked up for a long time.

and 'however UKIP wants to withdraw from human rights,'

Really, in what cheese planet is that? try, the ECHR, rather different.

That Farage really felt threatened (well, he said he did. It's not something you can find out through a quick Google search) is not the same as saying he was really under threat.

If the protesters had been committing public order offences it was open for the Police to deal with them for it. Otherwise they're entitled to protest against Farage as they would be any other figure or organisation they feel is abhorrent. Farage and his party members have some fairly robust (some would say controversial or extreme) views, and are not afraid to express them. If he appreciates his own and his party's freedom to express those views, he must also accept, as figurehead of the party, that people who find those views controversial might also robustly show their disagreement with them.

It goes with the territory when you court those (inadvertently or otherwise) who hold views at the extremes of acceptability.

[NicD]

allergictocheese said:

It goes with the territory when you court those (inadvertently or otherwise) who hold views at the extremes of acceptability.

do you think this?
you know my next question.

[steveT350C]

NicD said:

allergictocheese said:

It goes with the territory when you court those (inadvertently or otherwise) who hold views at the extremes of acceptability.

do you think this?
you know my next question.

You beat me to it Nick. Looking forward to reading the reply.

[FiF]

So if, for example, someone thought that poster A's views were at the boundary of acceptability, it would be quite in order for them to gather a group of like minded individuals, descend on whatever thread on whatever subject Poster A expressed themselves and basically attempted to shut down any debate or input on that thread.

I suspect that the moderators would have something to say about that, and providing whatever poster A wrote didn't contravene site T&C, it wouldn't be poster A that had their privileges removed.

[NicD]

The really worrying this is, this is where the widespread organised child sexual abuse took place, in fact Mr Farage was commenting on this.

So fair to say the bullying mob we are discussing tolerated, perhaps worse, the scandal.

And this poster is saying it is fine to let this hate mob set the standards for acceptable behaviour!

[allergictocheese]

I don't doubt at all that some people on this thread will reject any notion that UKIP and its members hold extreme views. I can well imagine that many people with out of touch views who choose to spend time with those who hold similarly extreme views, will believe they are the ones who hold the middle ground and that it is others who're out of touch.

The reality may be different.

Farage has found himself barricaded in, thrown out or cancelling visits rather a lot in the past year due to protests against him. Why is that?

[FiF]

Apologies didn't mean to stick my nose into the developing debate there, just felt it needed saying.

On the question of common law, iirc one of the issues with UK law vs that of other European countries partly hinges around the direction of approach. Basically things are ok unless there's a law / regulation saying it's not vs things not permitted unless specifically allowed. Gross simplification one suspects.

[NicD]

allergictocheese said:

I don't doubt at all that some people on this thread will reject any notion that UKIP and its members hold extreme views. I can well imagine that many people with out of touch views who choose to spend time with those who hold similarly extreme views, will believe they are the ones who hold the middle ground and that it is others who're out of touch.

The reality may be different.

Farage has found himself barricaded in, thrown out or cancelling visits rather a lot in the past year due to protests against him. Why is that?

Why do you just snipe?

How hard is it to give your own view? On anything.

And the 'rent a mobs' you mention are the antithesis of rational, centric opinion and should be deplored by all right thinking people.

[allergictocheese]

NicD said:

The really worrying this is, this is where the widespread organised child sexual abuse took place, in fact Mr Farage was commenting on this.

So fair to say the bullying mob we are discussing tolerated, perhaps worse, the scandal.

And this poster is saying it is fine to let this hate mob set the standards for acceptable behaviour!

People (you, I, Farage, everybody) are entitled to protest, vocally and passionately if we wish, for or against whatever causes we wish (within laws regarding illegal organisations and so on).

It is not illegal, strange or immoral to find yourself in a majority and the opposing minority cannot be heard to their satisfaction.

If enough people felt sufficiently moved to support UKIP they could have attended the ribbon cutting ceremony and outnumbered those protesting against. In the event, not many did and as a result Farage found himself in the minority.

[NicD]

FiF said:

Apologies didn't mean to stick my nose into the developing debate there, just felt it needed saying.

On the question of common law, iirc one of the issues with UK law vs that of other European countries partly hinges around the direction of approach. Basically things are ok unless there's a law / regulation saying it's not vs things not permitted unless specifically allowed. Gross simplification one suspects.

Yes, when I was in France a long time ago, a colleague told me that French law was whatever the gendarme or whoever said it was.

[BlackLabel]

Last Aug-Nov time UKIP were really on a roll, with the defections and the by-election wins helping their cause. Things seem to have stagnated quite a bit since then. It looked like a certainty that they'd have at least one more defection up their sleeve to be released nearer the election. Does anyone thing that will still happen?

The election rhetoric is all about the economy (and the nhs) - I think UKIP are struggling now to set the political agenda.

They could really do with another shock EU bill or something similar to get the ball rolling.

[steveT350C]

^^^

Agree 100%

If a week is a long time in politics, May is still a lifetime away.

Is there something big up UKIP's sleeve I wonder...

[FiF]

Not sure where these should go. Firstly Scottish and Welsh nationalists say they will stop Brexit. Plaid are saying that unless each nation individually votes for Brexit then that should override a total vote across the nation for exit. Ripping up any chances for a sensible discussion already.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eurefer...


Meanwhile it's not just in UK that some people think the EU needs a complete rethink, at minimum reform all the way up to binning it. Comres multi national poll.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/556836/Euro...



As an aside this not being able to paste extracts from articles is a total PITA.

[AmitG]

BlackLabel said:

Last Aug-Nov time UKIP were really on a roll, with the defections and the by-election wins helping their cause. Things seem to have stagnated quite a bit since then. It looked like a certainty that they'd have at least one more defection up their sleeve to be released nearer the election. Does anyone thing that will still happen?

The election rhetoric is all about the economy (and the nhs) - I think UKIP are struggling now to set the political agenda.

They could really do with another shock EU bill or something similar to get the ball rolling.

Agree.

What's the deadline for GE candidates to be decided? I'm wondering whether there is still time for MPs to switch parties.

[rs1952]

FiF said:

Not sure where these should go. Firstly Scottish and Welsh nationalists say they will stop Brexit. Plaid are saying that unless each nation individually votes for Brexit then that should override a total vote across the nation for exit. Ripping up any chances for a sensible discussion already.

An interesting post.

As I understand UKIP's position, they are very keen indeed on self-determination. In summary, "we don't want to be dictated to by the EU, we want the freedom to govern and administer our own affairs"

It appears from your post (and I admit that I haven't checked the story out) the "UK" may have lost the "U" bit here.In other words, the United Kingdom is not looking like it's particularly "United" when it comes to the concept of leaving the EU. The Welsh and the Scottish (and one or two others, including me) would much rather we stayed in.

"Ripping up any chances for a sensible discussion already" seems an odd phrase to use when certain parts of the UK do not apparently want to see a Brexit. Why, in principle, should England impose its views on Scotland or Wales on this matter, whilst at the same time argue that it is being imposed upon by the EU?

I suppose if push comes to shove, I could always emigrate to Wales to stay in the EU - its only 30 miles away from me