UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
rs1952 said:
FiF said:
Not sure where these should go. Firstly Scottish and Welsh nationalists say they will stop Brexit. Plaid are saying that unless each nation individually votes for Brexit then that should override a total vote across the nation for exit. Ripping up any chances for a sensible discussion already.
An interesting post.As I understand UKIP's position, they are very keen indeed on self-determination. In summary, "we don't want to be dictated to by the EU, we want the freedom to govern and administer our own affairs"
It appears from your post (and I admit that I haven't checked the story out) the "UK" may have lost the "U" bit here.In other words, the United Kingdom is not looking like it's particularly "United" when it comes to the concept of leaving the EU. The Welsh and the Scottish (and one or two others, including me) would much rather we stayed in.
"Ripping up any chances for a sensible discussion already" seems an odd phrase to use when certain parts of the UK do not apparently want to see a Brexit. Why, in principle, should England impose its views on Scotland or Wales on this matter, whilst at the same time argue that it is being imposed upon by the EU?
I suppose if push comes to shove, I could always emigrate to Wales to stay in the EU - its only 30 miles away from me
Just as in the same way, let's suppose Yorkshire voted for in and everywhere else voted for out. Nobody would question for a moment that Yorkshire should have a veto. Yet virtually same number of voters in Yorkshire region as in Scotland.
I think you're letting your bias affect judgement.
The only way a referendum will clear the decks and have a chance of lancing the boil is if a genuinely open and honest debate takes place. Personally I think it won't be allowed to take place but sincerely hope that I am wrong.
Of the opinion that whatever the result it won't solve the issues as various parties will try and use it to heal internal divisions. Even though personally, regardless of result, will accept it and move on, whether for or against my view, suspect many won't be so accepting.
Edited by FiF on Sunday 8th February 21:53
rs1952 said:
An interesting post.
As I understand UKIP's position, they are very keen indeed on self-determination. In summary, "we don't want to be dictated to by the EU, we want the freedom to govern and administer our own affairs"
It appears from your post (and I admit that I haven't checked the story out) the "UK" may have lost the "U" bit here.In other words, the United Kingdom is not looking like it's particularly "United" when it comes to the concept of leaving the EU. The Welsh and the Scottish (and one or two others, including me) would much rather we stayed in.
"Ripping up any chances for a sensible discussion already" seems an odd phrase to use when certain parts of the UK do not apparently want to see a Brexit. Why, in principle, should England impose its views on Scotland or Wales on this matter, whilst at the same time argue that it is being imposed upon by the EU?
I suppose if push comes to shove, I could always emigrate to Wales to stay in the EU - its only 30 miles away from me
I think a lot of this is down to politics, of the left and the right.As I understand UKIP's position, they are very keen indeed on self-determination. In summary, "we don't want to be dictated to by the EU, we want the freedom to govern and administer our own affairs"
It appears from your post (and I admit that I haven't checked the story out) the "UK" may have lost the "U" bit here.In other words, the United Kingdom is not looking like it's particularly "United" when it comes to the concept of leaving the EU. The Welsh and the Scottish (and one or two others, including me) would much rather we stayed in.
"Ripping up any chances for a sensible discussion already" seems an odd phrase to use when certain parts of the UK do not apparently want to see a Brexit. Why, in principle, should England impose its views on Scotland or Wales on this matter, whilst at the same time argue that it is being imposed upon by the EU?
I suppose if push comes to shove, I could always emigrate to Wales to stay in the EU - its only 30 miles away from me
IIRC, Labour were vehemently opposed to EEC/EC/EU integration until they realised that it could be used to move the UK in a socialist, statist direction, against the more libertarian leanings of the UK in general and England in particular.
By the same token, both the SNP and Plaid Cymru are distinctly left/statist, and may feel that their interests are best served within the EU. Whether the Welsh and Scottish electorate's views align that closely is another matter. Even after their recent gains, the SNP is still a minority party in all bodies to which they seek election (though that may change in May), and Plaid Cymru's best representation is in the EP, where they have one out of four MEPs (the same as UKIP).
I would therefore question the degree to which these parties represent the people of Scotland and Wales.
I'd be interested to learn the views of any right-leaning Scottish or Welsh separatists (fluffnik?); do they feel that the separatist aspects of Plaid/SNP outweigh the rest of their politics?
Say what you like, he's got a brass neck.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1020491322090...
Just laughing. Complete clown.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1020491322090...
Just laughing. Complete clown.
CrutyRammers said:
I think it's because the protestors are a nasty bunch of hard-of-thinking lefties. Why, what do you think?
I think UKIP members and Farage have expressed opinions that some corners of society feel sufficiently strongly about that they will come out and protest against them.It doesn't really matter whether you agree with the protestors' side or UKIP's. Both have the right to hold and express their opinions.
What I don't understand is why Farage keeps finding himself trapped in places or avoiding places due to small numbers of protesters. He should better plan his security and movements to cope, like other high profile, controversial figures do. Assuming he's not an imbecile, there must be a reason for it. My own opinion is that he puts himself in these positions and makes a mountain out of a mole hill to froth up those who support him and maintain a them-and-us, under siege mentality. If he's not finding himself in these situations on purpose, then I'm afraid, after it happening so many times, he's either too tight to pay for adequate security and/or incompetent.
allergictocheese said:
think UKIP members and Farage have expressed opinions that some corners of society feel sufficiently strongly about that they will come out and protest against them.
It doesn't really matter whether you agree with the protestors' side or UKIP's. Both have the right to hold and express their opinions.
What I don't understand is why Farage keeps finding himself trapped in places or avoiding places due to small numbers of protesters. He should better plan his security and movements to cope, like other high profile, controversial figures do. Assuming he's not an imbecile, there must be a reason for it. My own opinion is that he puts himself in these positions and makes a mountain out of a mole hill to froth up those who support him and maintain a them-and-us, under siege mentality. If he's not finding himself in these situations on purpose, then I'm afraid, after it happening so many times, he's either too tight to pay for adequate security and/or incompetent.
I'm typing this very slowly in the hope that you might understand.It doesn't really matter whether you agree with the protestors' side or UKIP's. Both have the right to hold and express their opinions.
What I don't understand is why Farage keeps finding himself trapped in places or avoiding places due to small numbers of protesters. He should better plan his security and movements to cope, like other high profile, controversial figures do. Assuming he's not an imbecile, there must be a reason for it. My own opinion is that he puts himself in these positions and makes a mountain out of a mole hill to froth up those who support him and maintain a them-and-us, under siege mentality. If he's not finding himself in these situations on purpose, then I'm afraid, after it happening so many times, he's either too tight to pay for adequate security and/or incompetent.
It is the job of the Police to provide secrity.
allergictocheese said:
think UKIP members and Farage have expressed opinions that some corners of society feel sufficiently strongly about that they will come out and protest against them.
It doesn't really matter whether you agree with the protestors' side or UKIP's. Both have the right to hold and express their opinions.
What I don't understand is why Farage keeps finding himself trapped in places or avoiding places due to small numbers of protesters. He should better plan his security and movements to cope, like other high profile, controversial figures do. Assuming he's not an imbecile, there must be a reason for it. My own opinion is that he puts himself in these positions and makes a mountain out of a mole hill to froth up those who support him and maintain a them-and-us, under siege mentality. If he's not finding himself in these situations on purpose, then I'm afraid, after it happening so many times, he's either too tight to pay for adequate security and/or incompetent.
What would 'adequate security' look like? Think about it.It doesn't really matter whether you agree with the protestors' side or UKIP's. Both have the right to hold and express their opinions.
What I don't understand is why Farage keeps finding himself trapped in places or avoiding places due to small numbers of protesters. He should better plan his security and movements to cope, like other high profile, controversial figures do. Assuming he's not an imbecile, there must be a reason for it. My own opinion is that he puts himself in these positions and makes a mountain out of a mole hill to froth up those who support him and maintain a them-and-us, under siege mentality. If he's not finding himself in these situations on purpose, then I'm afraid, after it happening so many times, he's either too tight to pay for adequate security and/or incompetent.
s2art said:
allergictocheese said:
think UKIP members and Farage have expressed opinions that some corners of society feel sufficiently strongly about that they will come out and protest against them.
It doesn't really matter whether you agree with the protestors' side or UKIP's. Both have the right to hold and express their opinions.
What I don't understand is why Farage keeps finding himself trapped in places or avoiding places due to small numbers of protesters. He should better plan his security and movements to cope, like other high profile, controversial figures do. Assuming he's not an imbecile, there must be a reason for it. My own opinion is that he puts himself in these positions and makes a mountain out of a mole hill to froth up those who support him and maintain a them-and-us, under siege mentality. If he's not finding himself in these situations on purpose, then I'm afraid, after it happening so many times, he's either too tight to pay for adequate security and/or incompetent.
What would 'adequate security' look like? Think about it.It doesn't really matter whether you agree with the protestors' side or UKIP's. Both have the right to hold and express their opinions.
What I don't understand is why Farage keeps finding himself trapped in places or avoiding places due to small numbers of protesters. He should better plan his security and movements to cope, like other high profile, controversial figures do. Assuming he's not an imbecile, there must be a reason for it. My own opinion is that he puts himself in these positions and makes a mountain out of a mole hill to froth up those who support him and maintain a them-and-us, under siege mentality. If he's not finding himself in these situations on purpose, then I'm afraid, after it happening so many times, he's either too tight to pay for adequate security and/or incompetent.
don4l said:
I'm typing this very slowly in the hope that you might understand.
It is the job of the Police to provide secrity.
It is also the job of the Police to keep me safeIt is the job of the Police to provide secrity.
But most people would think that I was a t
t if I stood outside Stamford Bridge in Arsenal kit shouting that Chelsea were useless after a home gameOr stood outside North London Central mosque yelling that Mohammed liked to have sex with pigs
And that if I got my head kicked in I might be partly at fault.
We are all responsible for our own security as well as the Police. Unless you believe in the lefty wishy-washy views that no-one is responsible for their own actions. But you don't, do you?
JustAnotherLogin said:
It is also the job of the Police to keep me safe
But most people would think that I was a tt if I stood outside Stamford Bridge in Arsenal kit shouting that Chelsea were useless after a home game
Or stood outside North London Central mosque yelling that Mohammed liked to have sex with pigs
And that if I got my head kicked in I might be partly at fault.
We are all responsible for our own security as well as the Police. Unless you believe in the lefty wishy-washy views that no-one is responsible for their own actions. But you don't, do you?
we think that anyway!But most people would think that I was a t
t if I stood outside Stamford Bridge in Arsenal kit shouting that Chelsea were useless after a home gameOr stood outside North London Central mosque yelling that Mohammed liked to have sex with pigs
And that if I got my head kicked in I might be partly at fault.
We are all responsible for our own security as well as the Police. Unless you believe in the lefty wishy-washy views that no-one is responsible for their own actions. But you don't, do you?
just joking.
I thought this was quite an accurate view of UKIP's detractors. Laughing at the new Inquisition: http://youtu.be/C6jiNMg1PAk
JustAnotherLogin said:
don4l said:
I'm typing this very slowly in the hope that you might understand.
It is the job of the Police to provide secrity.
It is also the job of the Police to keep me safeIt is the job of the Police to provide secrity.
But most people would think that I was a t
t if I stood outside Stamford Bridge in Arsenal kit shouting that Chelsea were useless after a home gameOr stood outside North London Central mosque yelling that Mohammed liked to have sex with pigs
And that if I got my head kicked in I might be partly at fault.
We are all responsible for our own security as well as the Police. Unless you believe in the lefty wishy-washy views that no-one is responsible for their own actions. But you don't, do you?
JustAnotherLogin said:
don4l said:
UKIP are the main opposition on Rotheram Council. Are you really suggesting that they shouldn't campaign when they are the only credible threat to Labour?
No, but I am suggesting his timing was designed to be controversial and attract hostile attention and the mediaThe visit was arranged months ago.
Stop making stuff up.
JustAnotherLogin said:
don4l said:
UKIP are the main opposition on Rotheram Council. Are you really suggesting that they shouldn't campaign when they are the only credible threat to Labour?
No, but I am suggesting his timing was designed to be controversial and attract hostile attention and the mediaBut then we know that.
Plus it was arranged quite a while ago.
dandarez said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
don4l said:
UKIP are the main opposition on Rotheram Council. Are you really suggesting that they shouldn't campaign when they are the only credible threat to Labour?
No, but I am suggesting his timing was designed to be controversial and attract hostile attention and the mediaBut then we know that.
Plus it was arranged quite a while ago.
Have you evidence it was arranged months ago? Even if it were then when circumstances change a sensible, responsible person will take responsibility for their own safety
JustAnotherLogin said:
dandarez said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
don4l said:
UKIP are the main opposition on Rotheram Council. Are you really suggesting that they shouldn't campaign when they are the only credible threat to Labour?
No, but I am suggesting his timing was designed to be controversial and attract hostile attention and the mediaBut then we know that.
Plus it was arranged quite a while ago.
Have you evidence it was arranged months ago? Even if it were then when circumstances change a sensible, responsible person will take responsibility for their own safety
You seem to think that it is acceptable to make up wild accusations, and then you challenge anyone who mocks your stupidity to prove you wrong.
Really! You are quite insane!
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