UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[sjn2004]

Wombat3 said:

sjn2004 said:

Wombat3 said:

The only thing he is guilty of is being unable to achieve what he wanted for two simple reasons, firstly he doesn't have the legal means to do it and secondly the success of the UK economy has exacerbated the problem.

As above, all things being equal & EU immigration remaining constant then a cut in net immigration may well have been achieved. IN hindsight that premise was best described as naïve & whatever cuts they have made have been overwhelmed by the Blair's legacy. If you want to start looking for culprits then deal in facts, not political conveniences.

So why did he promise it when he knew he didn't have the legal means to do it?

Success of the UK economy unforeseen? Well the large downturn in the Eurozone was plain to see in 2010.

He knows fully well that he won't hold a referendum in 2017, if he was serious he would have started the renegotiates already. However, he knows they will come to nothing so promises them for the future.

The stupid assumption was that EU migration would remain flat. It hasn't. A contributory factor to that is the economy. If it had remained flat & they would probably have been able to cut net immigration. Personally, in his position, I would have thought about standing up & saying "we can't cut EU immigration thanks to the Labour stitch up". No doubt they thought about doing it but probably had reasons for not doing so.

Then you are making definitive statements about what will happen & what they will & won't do and passing them off as facts. The reality is they are not facts, its a load of conjecture based on your own opinion and that suits your party allegiance.

When have I said what and will happen?
Do YOU really believe the other 27 EU countries will allow CMD to impose an immigration cap? Its total and utter fantasy! But do YOU believe it?
YES or NO???

[sjn2004]

Wombat3 said:

sjn2004 said:

Wombat3 said:

wc98 said:

Wombat3 said:

and everybody knows that what the root causes of that number are

yes, a pm who lied and failed to follow through on an election promise . you would need to be smoking crack to see it any other way. if the elected head of the uk parliament cannot make things happen,then maybe we should just get rid of all mp,s and let the eu run the country directly.

FFS, more spin than a tumble drier!

Guess who never does the washing at his house. You mean a spin dryer?

Anyway, CMD when in opposition promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty but then changed his mind once he got the keys to No10.

Not that st again?

At least we can agree than CMD talks st.

[anonymous-user]

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

TheRealFingers99 said:

UKIP loose £1 million in EU funding as their group collapses in Europe. Some sort of justice there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29646414

It didn't actually collapse, a single Latvian MEP (bribed by fancy job) left the group, leaving the EEFD with representatives from only 6 countries. You need MEP's from 7 countries to form a group. So the group was disbanded by the hierarchy of the EU, essentially they eliminated a dissenting force 'Hitler' style. What more proof do we need of the EU not representing democracy?

Are you wilfully ignorant of history, or do you just stumble into these making comments like this accidentally?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

Hitler banned opposition parties. The EU now attempts a similar feat by breaking up its opposition and starving them of funds.

That is not remotely similar to what has gone on. A child - anda slow one at that - would be able to grasp the differences.

[don4l]

Wombat3 said:

don4l said:

sjn2004 said:

and another Camermoron fail… promises promises

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28964323

Hey, he wants us to let him have another go…I'd didn't realise he'd actually had a turn.

Todays talk from him is total nonsense, will be illegal under EU regs and doubt even one of the other 27 countries would agree to it. Pure fantasy land… weasel words from a trickster.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29642604

So he has managed to cut net immigration from 100,000 to 270,000 in just 4 1/2 years. Well done Dave.

His capacity for deception is impressive.

There are places where a red rosette on a donkey would see the donkey elected.

Clearly, the same can also be said of a blue rosette.

Simplistic nonsense to blame the current Gov't for that - but don't let that get in the way of a good bit of spin

If you read my post slowly you will see that I haven't apportioned blame on the government.

Before the last election Cameron told us that he would cut net immigration.

Many of us told him that he had no control over immigration, and that he was deceiving the public.

Nigel said it, as did Christopher Booker in the Sunday Telegraph. We know that Cameron, and his staff, read the Sunday Telegraph. So, the deception was willful. He cannot pretend that he wasn't aware of the real situation.

I am gobsmacked that anyone believes a word that he says.

[Mojocvh]

sjn2004 said:

Wombat3 said:

sjn2004 said:

Wombat3 said:

wc98 said:

Wombat3 said:

and everybody knows that what the root causes of that number are

yes, a pm who lied and failed to follow through on an election promise . you would need to be smoking crack to see it any other way. if the elected head of the uk parliament cannot make things happen,then maybe we should just get rid of all mp,s and let the eu run the country directly.

FFS, more spin than a tumble drier!

Guess who never does the washing at his house. You mean a spin dryer?

Anyway, CMD when in opposition promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty but then changed his mind once he got the keys to No10.

Not that st again?

At least we can agree than CMD talks st.

They ALL talk it when they feel a few votes coming on, time for change.

[sjn2004]

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

TheRealFingers99 said:

UKIP loose £1 million in EU funding as their group collapses in Europe. Some sort of justice there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29646414

It didn't actually collapse, a single Latvian MEP (bribed by fancy job) left the group, leaving the EEFD with representatives from only 6 countries. You need MEP's from 7 countries to form a group. So the group was disbanded by the hierarchy of the EU, essentially they eliminated a dissenting force 'Hitler' style. What more proof do we need of the EU not representing democracy?

Are you wilfully ignorant of history, or do you just stumble into these making comments like this accidentally?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

Hitler banned opposition parties. The EU now attempts a similar feat by breaking up its opposition and starving them of funds.

That is not remotely similar to what has gone on. A child - anda slow one at that - would be able to grasp the differences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

[BGARK]

Please may I have the keys to my country back...

[Wombat3]

sjn2004 said:

When have I said what and will happen?
Do YOU really believe the other 27 EU countries will allow CMD to impose an immigration cap? Its total and utter fantasy! But do YOU believe it?
YES or NO???

"He knows fully well that he won't hold a referendum in 2017, if he was serious he would have started the renegotiates already. However, he knows they will come to nothing so promises them for the future"

If those aren't opinions passed off as facts I don't know what are.


I think its going to be extremely difficult to negotiate this but I also think

1) We are not the only country struggling with the effects of freedom of movement

and

2) The EU needs the UK to stay in. They also know this is a major issue here now and that a failure to address it will mean a higher probability of a vote to leave.


As to why it has not happened before now, that's really very simple - the LDs have refused to countenance a referendum. The EU know this, therefore there is no reason to talk about anything.

If we get a Tory government which then legislates and locks in a referendum then they (the EU) will deal with the problem. Until then there is no problem for them to deal with.

Edited by Wombat3 on Thursday 16th October 23:11

[anonymous-user]

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

TheRealFingers99 said:

UKIP loose £1 million in EU funding as their group collapses in Europe. Some sort of justice there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29646414

It didn't actually collapse, a single Latvian MEP (bribed by fancy job) left the group, leaving the EEFD with representatives from only 6 countries. You need MEP's from 7 countries to form a group. So the group was disbanded by the hierarchy of the EU, essentially they eliminated a dissenting force 'Hitler' style. What more proof do we need of the EU not representing democracy?

Are you wilfully ignorant of history, or do you just stumble into these making comments like this accidentally?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

Hitler banned opposition parties. The EU now attempts a similar feat by breaking up its opposition and starving them of funds.

That is not remotely similar to what has gone on. A child - anda slow one at that - would be able to grasp the differences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

Yes. I heard you the first time.

Now let's show the class what it says about the Hitler years

wiki said:

Soon after the appointment of Hitler as Chancellor, the Reichstag was set on fire and Dutch council communist Marinus van der Lubbe was found near the building. The Nazis publicly blamed the fire on communist agitators in general, although in a German court in 1933, it was decided that van der Lubbe had acted alone, as he claimed to have done. After the fire, the Reichstag Fire Decree was passed, under the pretext of snuffing out "Communist state-endangering acts of violence." Its actual effect, however, was to suspend most civil liberties. The KPD was banned shortly afterward. The Enabling Act, which legally gave Hitler dictatorial control of Germany, was passed by a Reichstag session held after all communist deputies had been arrested and jailed.

The KPD was efficiently suppressed by the Nazis. Thousands of Communists were imprisoned in concentration camps, including Thälmann and the party's leader in the Reichstag, Ernst Torgler. The most senior KPD leaders to escape were Wilhelm Pieck and Walter Ulbricht, who went into exile in the Soviet Union. The KPD maintained an underground organisation in Germany throughout the Nazi period, but the loss of many core members severely weakened the Party's infrastructure.

So, arson, suspected murder, banning, imprisonment, exile and concentration camps. So much like Brussels you'd think it had been written yesterday.

Stop wasting people's time with drivel.

[TheRealFingers99]

steveT350C said:

You seem happy that UKIP are being compromised. Why?

Because I think it's obscene to use EU money to attempt to destroy the EU by entreeism.

More broadly, I despise UKIP.

steveT350C said:

UKIP have more MEPS than any other UK political party

And represent the UK by turning their backs on a band, forming a group with some pretty despicable partners (the Sweden Democrats stand out), and enjoying the gravy train.

Well done, UKIP.

[sjn2004]

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

TheRealFingers99 said:

UKIP loose £1 million in EU funding as their group collapses in Europe. Some sort of justice there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29646414

It didn't actually collapse, a single Latvian MEP (bribed by fancy job) left the group, leaving the EEFD with representatives from only 6 countries. You need MEP's from 7 countries to form a group. So the group was disbanded by the hierarchy of the EU, essentially they eliminated a dissenting force 'Hitler' style. What more proof do we need of the EU not representing democracy?

Are you wilfully ignorant of history, or do you just stumble into these making comments like this accidentally?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

Hitler banned opposition parties. The EU now attempts a similar feat by breaking up its opposition and starving them of funds.

That is not remotely similar to what has gone on. A child - anda slow one at that - would be able to grasp the differences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

Yes. I heard you the first time.

Now let's show the class what it says about the Hitler years

wiki said:

Soon after the appointment of Hitler as Chancellor, the Reichstag was set on fire and Dutch council communist Marinus van der Lubbe was found near the building. The Nazis publicly blamed the fire on communist agitators in general, although in a German court in 1933, it was decided that van der Lubbe had acted alone, as he claimed to have done. After the fire, the Reichstag Fire Decree was passed, under the pretext of snuffing out "Communist state-endangering acts of violence." Its actual effect, however, was to suspend most civil liberties. The KPD was banned shortly afterward. The Enabling Act, which legally gave Hitler dictatorial control of Germany, was passed by a Reichstag session held after all communist deputies had been arrested and jailed.

The KPD was efficiently suppressed by the Nazis. Thousands of Communists were imprisoned in concentration camps, including Thälmann and the party's leader in the Reichstag, Ernst Torgler. The most senior KPD leaders to escape were Wilhelm Pieck and Walter Ulbricht, who went into exile in the Soviet Union. The KPD maintained an underground organisation in Germany throughout the Nazi period, but the loss of many core members severely weakened the Party's infrastructure.

So, arson, suspected murder, banning, imprisonment, exile and concentration camps. So much like Brussels you'd think it had been written yesterday.

Stop wasting people's time with drivel.

Cut and paste google boy.LOL.

The EU have castrated a large group of MEP's which not only reduces their funding but also heavily reduces their ability to oppose the views and workings of the EU. If you look to the bottom of this link you can see all the benefits that have been removed from the eurosceptic parties today via the EP president bribing one MEP with a fancy job.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29646414

ps we all know what Hitler did and one of his first steps was banning his main opposition party.

[sjn2004]

TheRealFingers99 said:

steveT350C said:

You seem happy that UKIP are being compromised. Why?

Because I think it's obscene to use EU money to attempt to destroy the EU by entreeism.

More broadly, I despise UKIP.

steveT350C said:

UKIP have more MEPS than any other UK political party

And represent the UK by turning their backs on a band, forming a group with some pretty despicable partners (the Sweden Democrats stand out), and enjoying the gravy train.

Well done, UKIP.

EU money……. the money we gave them!

[TheRealFingers99]

sjn2004 said:

EU money……. the money we gave them!

Not just us!

I find it remarkable that while Kippers want to fight off a United States of Europe, no-one wants to argue that (say) California should leave the US!

[anonymous-user]

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

TheRealFingers99 said:

UKIP loose £1 million in EU funding as their group collapses in Europe. Some sort of justice there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29646414

It didn't actually collapse, a single Latvian MEP (bribed by fancy job) left the group, leaving the EEFD with representatives from only 6 countries. You need MEP's from 7 countries to form a group. So the group was disbanded by the hierarchy of the EU, essentially they eliminated a dissenting force 'Hitler' style. What more proof do we need of the EU not representing democracy?

Are you wilfully ignorant of history, or do you just stumble into these making comments like this accidentally?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

Hitler banned opposition parties. The EU now attempts a similar feat by breaking up its opposition and starving them of funds.

That is not remotely similar to what has gone on. A child - anda slow one at that - would be able to grasp the differences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

Yes. I heard you the first time.

Now let's show the class what it says about the Hitler years

wiki said:

Soon after the appointment of Hitler as Chancellor, the Reichstag was set on fire and Dutch council communist Marinus van der Lubbe was found near the building. The Nazis publicly blamed the fire on communist agitators in general, although in a German court in 1933, it was decided that van der Lubbe had acted alone, as he claimed to have done. After the fire, the Reichstag Fire Decree was passed, under the pretext of snuffing out "Communist state-endangering acts of violence." Its actual effect, however, was to suspend most civil liberties. The KPD was banned shortly afterward. The Enabling Act, which legally gave Hitler dictatorial control of Germany, was passed by a Reichstag session held after all communist deputies had been arrested and jailed.

The KPD was efficiently suppressed by the Nazis. Thousands of Communists were imprisoned in concentration camps, including Thälmann and the party's leader in the Reichstag, Ernst Torgler. The most senior KPD leaders to escape were Wilhelm Pieck and Walter Ulbricht, who went into exile in the Soviet Union. The KPD maintained an underground organisation in Germany throughout the Nazi period, but the loss of many core members severely weakened the Party's infrastructure.

So, arson, suspected murder, banning, imprisonment, exile and concentration camps. So much like Brussels you'd think it had been written yesterday.

Stop wasting people's time with drivel.

Cut and paste google boy.LOL.

The EU have castrated a large group of MEP's which not only reduces their funding but also heavily reduces their ability to oppose the views and workings of the EU. If you look to the bottom of this link you can see all the benefits that have been removed from the eurosceptic parties today via the EP president bribing one MEP with a fancy job.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29646414

ps we all know what Hitler did and one of his first steps was banning his main opposition party.

Them's the rules, laddy. You need seven national parties to make a group that gets your greedy fat snout firmly in the EU gravy trough. Farage knew that, and he played that game. Not so well, as it turns out, as one national party was comprised of a single MEP. How silly, building such a vulnerable alliance. Still as long as that one MEP has a strong belief in her cause, plenty of conviction and wasn't fickle, Farage would have been ok.

Oh, wait...

Still, with such excellent strategic instincts who could possibly doubt that he, and only he, is the bright shining future this country needs.

And the cut and paste was just for you since you seem unable to read what you'd linked to twice. Perhaps now you can read it in your own time.

[don4l]

NicD said:

zygalski said:

4% over all in the locals.
I do realise kippers aren't too savvy as far as figures are concerned so you are excused.

smoked fish have no need for figures

I hate to say this, but we have become accustomed to a much better class of insult on this thread.

Where is the smugness in your post? ...There is none.

Where is the sense of moral superiority? ...Again, it is totally absent.

All you have done is be a bit snidy.

[eharding]

Greg66 said:

Them's the rules, laddy. You need seven national parties to make a group that gets your greedy fat snout firmly in the EU gravy trough. Farage knew that, and he played that game. Not so well, as it turns out, as one national party was comprised of a single MEP. How silly, building such a vulnerable alliance. Still as long as that one MEP has a strong belief in her cause, plenty of conviction and wasn't fickle, Farage would have been ok.

Oh, wait...

Still, with such excellent strategic instincts who could possibly doubt that he, and only he, is the bright shining future this country needs.

And the cut and paste was just for you since you seem unable to read what you'd linked to twice. Perhaps now you can read it in your own time.

The remaining EFDD members might be wise to ditch UKIP and reform in a different guise, since whilst the single Latvian member was always a potential liability, given the 'kipper MEPs' proven track record for being jailed, monumental flounces and generally going hatstand, any pan-national European Parliament grouping hoping to have the merest whiff of stability should avoid UKIP like a dose of Ebola.

[sjn2004]

Looks like the Tories have shot themselves in the foot in Rochester and Strood. Two councillors already jumped over to UKIP.

http://markreckless.com/2014/10/15/tory-stitch-up-...

[sjn2004]

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

Greg66 said:

sjn2004 said:

TheRealFingers99 said:

UKIP loose £1 million in EU funding as their group collapses in Europe. Some sort of justice there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29646414

It didn't actually collapse, a single Latvian MEP (bribed by fancy job) left the group, leaving the EEFD with representatives from only 6 countries. You need MEP's from 7 countries to form a group. So the group was disbanded by the hierarchy of the EU, essentially they eliminated a dissenting force 'Hitler' style. What more proof do we need of the EU not representing democracy?

Are you wilfully ignorant of history, or do you just stumble into these making comments like this accidentally?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

Hitler banned opposition parties. The EU now attempts a similar feat by breaking up its opposition and starving them of funds.

That is not remotely similar to what has gone on. A child - anda slow one at that - would be able to grasp the differences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

Yes. I heard you the first time.

Now let's show the class what it says about the Hitler years

wiki said:

Soon after the appointment of Hitler as Chancellor, the Reichstag was set on fire and Dutch council communist Marinus van der Lubbe was found near the building. The Nazis publicly blamed the fire on communist agitators in general, although in a German court in 1933, it was decided that van der Lubbe had acted alone, as he claimed to have done. After the fire, the Reichstag Fire Decree was passed, under the pretext of snuffing out "Communist state-endangering acts of violence." Its actual effect, however, was to suspend most civil liberties. The KPD was banned shortly afterward. The Enabling Act, which legally gave Hitler dictatorial control of Germany, was passed by a Reichstag session held after all communist deputies had been arrested and jailed.

The KPD was efficiently suppressed by the Nazis. Thousands of Communists were imprisoned in concentration camps, including Thälmann and the party's leader in the Reichstag, Ernst Torgler. The most senior KPD leaders to escape were Wilhelm Pieck and Walter Ulbricht, who went into exile in the Soviet Union. The KPD maintained an underground organisation in Germany throughout the Nazi period, but the loss of many core members severely weakened the Party's infrastructure.

So, arson, suspected murder, banning, imprisonment, exile and concentration camps. So much like Brussels you'd think it had been written yesterday.

Stop wasting people's time with drivel.

Cut and paste google boy.LOL.

The EU have castrated a large group of MEP's which not only reduces their funding but also heavily reduces their ability to oppose the views and workings of the EU. If you look to the bottom of this link you can see all the benefits that have been removed from the eurosceptic parties today via the EP president bribing one MEP with a fancy job.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29646414

ps we all know what Hitler did and one of his first steps was banning his main opposition party.

Them's the rules, laddy. You need seven national parties to make a group that gets your greedy fat snout firmly in the EU gravy trough. Farage knew that, and he played that game. Not so well, as it turns out, as one national party was comprised of a single MEP. How silly, building such a vulnerable alliance. Still as long as that one MEP has a strong belief in her cause, plenty of conviction and wasn't fickle, Farage would have been ok.

Oh, wait...

Still, with such excellent strategic instincts who could possibly doubt that he, and only he, is the bright shining future this country needs.

And the cut and paste was just for you since you seem unable to read what you'd linked to twice. Perhaps now you can read it in your own time.

Still not answered the question regarding the EU's suppression of democracy. I seem to remember they even decided who was going to lead Italy without a single vote being cast.

So we can't post a link twice now even though the initial one was a few pages back? In your posts you seemed to be totally unaware of the implications of the dissolution of the EEFD so I assumed you'd never clicked and absorbed the information. Maybe you read it the second time?

[eharding]

sjn2004 said:

Looks like the Tories have shot themselves in the foot in Rochester and Strood. Two councillors already jumped over to UKIP.

http://markreckless.com/2014/10/15/tory-stitch-up-...

Christ - is Nigel shaking that one's hand or just checking he's got a pulse?

That being said, the poor old bloke is probably overjoyed to find he still qualifies for the 'Kipper Youth wing.

[sjn2004]

eharding said:

Greg66 said:

Them's the rules, laddy. You need seven national parties to make a group that gets your greedy fat snout firmly in the EU gravy trough. Farage knew that, and he played that game. Not so well, as it turns out, as one national party was comprised of a single MEP. How silly, building such a vulnerable alliance. Still as long as that one MEP has a strong belief in her cause, plenty of conviction and wasn't fickle, Farage would have been ok.

Oh, wait...

Still, with such excellent strategic instincts who could possibly doubt that he, and only he, is the bright shining future this country needs.

And the cut and paste was just for you since you seem unable to read what you'd linked to twice. Perhaps now you can read it in your own time.

The remaining EFDD members might be wise to ditch UKIP and reform in a different guise, since whilst the single Latvian member was always a potential liability, given the 'kipper MEPs' proven track record for being jailed, monumental flounces and generally going hatstand, any pan-national European Parliament grouping hoping to have the merest whiff of stability should avoid UKIP like a dose of Ebola.

Hold on a second, Labour MP's having fist fights in Parliament, Conservative MP's sending nudz, Lab/Cons fiddling expenses and going to prison, LibDems perverting the course of justice etc etc. UKIP are a godsend by comparison.