UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[don4l]

Zod said:

don4l said:

My apologies.

You had been talking about the deficit, so I assumed that was more important to you.

To cut the debt, the deficit needs to be eliminated, and we need to run a surplus.

If we could run a £100Bn a year surplus, then we could eliminate the debt in only 15 years. However, you know as well as I do that is never going to happen (without inflation).

I notice that you completely ignored the savings that would reduce our annual borrowings by 7%. Is this because you don't think that such waste matters? If we reduce the deficit, then the debt grows more slowly. Don't you agree that this would be a good thing?

both are important to me, as they are to you. Currently the deficit is reducing, so the debt is growing more slowly. We both agree that is a good thing. We are never going to eliminate the debt and that does not matter. We should reduce it. By how much is a question over which economists can argue. All most will agree is that the current level is too high.

The problem is that we are not reducing it. We hear all this talk about austerity, yet there isn't any. We have made cuts in police budgets, but the increase in foreign aid far outweighs the reduction in police spending.

Once again, I notice that you have ignored the obvious savings that I highlighted. These savings would not impact the general public, and would also reduce energy costs for UK manufacturers. Of course, if manufacturing costs were reduced, then our economy (and tax revenues) would grow even faster.

I'll be completely honest. In 2010 I would have told the British public the truth. Public spending would have been set at 2008 levels. We would all have endured a bit of apparent hardship for a couple of years, but the economy would have soon taken off - and growth would have had a real chance of reducing the debt.

So - where are we after 5 years of a so called "Conservative" government? The national debt has almost doubled. There is no prospect at all that we will reduce the debt in the next 10 years. In fact, the only way out of this mess is for a massive devaluation of Sterling.

My children, who are in their mid twenties, will spend all of their working lives paying off this debt.

ETA. Do you have children, Zod? How do you see their future?

Edited by don4l on Thursday 5th March 23:08

[JustAnotherLogin]

But Don41. You ignore the fact that what this govt has done extends beyond cutting the deficit. Because they have a viable economic plan for reversing the debt, and because the UK is experience significant growth when the rest of the world is not, there are other benefits.

What really matters is not the debt, but the interest on it.

As you can see from the link below, this govt has managed to stabilise that remarkably quickly and at a lower level than we had even in the late 1990s

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_1...

That is not to say there won't be a problem when interest rates rise, but the best way out of debt is combining a zero deficit with growth. The deficit has been halved as a proportion of GDP already, but growth is still happening.

As it happens I agree with should cut foreign aid in these circumstances. But far more important is a competent economic plan. Unfortunately only one party has that at the moment. And so I will vote Tory because that is the most important aspect in my view.

I can't speak for Zod's children, but I have high hopes for mine. I would however like them to live in a country that is run competently, and where they can enjoy freedom of movement, and where there is tolerance of different religions, different sexual preferences and different national origins, and indeed an absence of bigotry generally.

[GG89]

Yazar said:

brenflys777 said:

steveT350C said:

It seems Mr. Farage did pretty well on some program called Loose Women earlier today. Of course did not watch it myself but #loosewomen very positive.

Eta, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2JsVfBQBs5c

Let's see if the #loosewomen comments are at all accurate

Edited by steveT350C on Thursday 5th March 18:45

I've been on standby for work all day and heard Farage was going to be interviewed by some loose women, so took a peek. It was tamer than it sounds, but has to be one of his best interviews. Despite the shows name he wasn't given an easy ride but he was allowed to answer without too many interruptions and my overriding impression is that not one of the other leaders would have got away with being so open about his opinions and not trying to fit in. Farage was much better than his sometimes overly combative reaction to regular political interviewers.

Superb interview, but you wouldn't expect any less from him. His honesty went down well regarding family life I am sure.

Excellent idea to do the show, nice to see him being treated as normal rather than the 'racist' tag being attempted every 5 minutes like he is used to!

+1

Good to see him on a fair panel for a change.

[Bill]

I don't think I've ever watched it but always assumed it was the televisual equivalent of the Mail.

[Mrr T]

Scuffers said:

just to keep on topic..

Romanian pickpocket stole 22 mobile phones from dancers at Kasabian gig within days of arriving in Britain ‘for a better life’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2979303/Ro...

so, another economy enriching migrant!

Such an enriching experience to visit foreign countries and abuse the locals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31514168

This of cause proves all British are racist and boorish.

[turbobloke]

Mrr T said:

Scuffers said:

just to keep on topic..

Romanian pickpocket stole 22 mobile phones from dancers at Kasabian gig within days of arriving in Britain ‘for a better life’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2979303/Ro...

so, another economy enriching migrant!

Such an enriching experience to visit foreign countries and abuse the locals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31514168

This of cause proves all British are racist and boorish.

No of course it doesn't you are fully aware one would need to look at the wider statistics to see how representative the incident was.

FullFact said:

Overall, the figures reported by the Daily Mail and the Express are correct: Romania does seem to find a particularly large proportion of their citizens in the UK arrested by the Metropolitan Police.

Make of that what you will.

[Scuffers]

Mrr T said:

Scuffers said:

just to keep on topic..

Romanian pickpocket stole 22 mobile phones from dancers at Kasabian gig within days of arriving in Britain ‘for a better life’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2979303/Ro...

so, another economy enriching migrant!

Such an enriching experience to visit foreign countries and abuse the locals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31514168

This of cause proves all British are racist and boorish.

LOL!

OK, how do you propose to solve the racial issues within football?

This is nothing new, it's been a problem for decades, you tell us all what the solution is?

Once you have done that, then consider that the issue I posted up is new, and very much solvable by controlling our borders properly.

Please explain how allowing Romanian's in as we have for the last ~14 months has enriched our society or helped the economy?

then read this:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/559815/Romanian-i...

comments?

[Mrr T]

turbobloke said:

Mrr T said:

Scuffers said:

just to keep on topic..

Romanian pickpocket stole 22 mobile phones from dancers at Kasabian gig within days of arriving in Britain ‘for a better life’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2979303/Ro...

so, another economy enriching migrant!

Such an enriching experience to visit foreign countries and abuse the locals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31514168

This of cause proves all British are racist and boorish.

No of course it doesn't you are fully aware one would need to look at the wider statistics to see how representative the incident was.

FullFact said:

Overall, the figures reported by the Daily Mail and the Express are correct: Romania does seem to find a particularly large proportion of their citizens in the UK arrested by the Metropolitan Police.

Make of that what you will.

Romanians will tell you a very large proportion of those arrested in London holding Romanian citizenship are Roma Gypsies.

They will then follow up with a long tirade against the Roma Gypsies which in the UK would be regarded as racist.

There is no love loss between the 20M Romanians and the 2M Roma gypsies. Most Roma regard them selves as Roma not Romanian.

[Scuffers]

Mrr T said:

Romanians will tell you a very large proportion of those arrested in London holding Romanian citizenship are Roma Gypsies.

They will then follow up with a long tirade against the Roma Gypsies which in the UK would be regarded as racist.

There is no love loss between the 20M Romanians and the 2M Roma gypsies. Most Roma regard them selves as Roma not Romanian.

so what?

I am sure the peoples whose phones got stolen (or any of the over victims of their crimes) don't really give two hoots about if they are 'Roma' or 'vanilla' Romanians (and just what do their passports say they are?)

the simple point is, they should not be here.

[JustAnotherLogin]

Scuffers said:

Once you have done that, then consider that the issue I posted up is new, and very much solvable by controlling our borders properly.

Is it?

I'm sure I remember crime happening when I was younger

And I'm sure I remember reading that there was crime before joined the EU, or let immigrants come here (excluding the normans, saxons, huegenots, vikings, romans and the other centuries of immigration)

Because just as people don't care whether their phone has been nicked by a gypsy or romanian, they don't care whether it has been nicked by a romanian or brit who can show his ancestry back to Edward the Confessor. Well I suppose some people care, but best not go there

[Zod]

don4l said:

The problem is that we are not reducing it. We hear all this talk about austerity, yet there isn't any. We have made cuts in police budgets, but the increase in foreign aid far outweighs the reduction in police spending.

Once again, I notice that you have ignored the obvious savings that I highlighted. These savings would not impact the general public, and would also reduce energy costs for UK manufacturers. Of course, if manufacturing costs were reduced, then our economy (and tax revenues) would grow even faster.

I'll be completely honest. In 2010 I would have told the British public the truth. Public spending would have been set at 2008 levels. We would all have endured a bit of apparent hardship for a couple of years, but the economy would have soon taken off - and growth would have had a real chance of reducing the debt.

So - where are we after 5 years of a so called "Conservative" government? The national debt has almost doubled. There is no prospect at all that we will reduce the debt in the next 10 years. In fact, the only way out of this mess is for a massive devaluation of Sterling.

My children, who are in their mid twenties, will spend all of their working lives paying off this debt.

ETA. Do you have children, Zod? How do you see their future?

Edited by don4l on Thursday 5th March 23:08

I have three. The eldest will be nine next month. The debt will never be paid off and there is no need to do so, any more than there is for the US. It just needs to be kept within more prudent limits. Devaluation of sterling would not solve the issue. It would be seen as a default by creditors and would trigger a depression.

My fears for my children's future have little to do with the national debt. My principal concern is to ensure that they are highly skilled, well educated and able to work anywhere in the world.

[Scuffers]

JustAnotherLogin said:

Scuffers said:

Once you have done that, then consider that the issue I posted up is new, and very much solvable by controlling our borders properly.

Is it?

I'm sure I remember crime happening when I was younger

And I'm sure I remember reading that there was crime before joined the EU, or let immigrants come here (excluding the normans, saxons, huegenots, vikings, romans and the other centuries of immigration)

Because just as people don't care whether their phone has been nicked by a gypsy or romanian, they don't care whether it has been nicked by a romanian or brit who can show his ancestry back to Edward the Confessor. Well I suppose some people care, but best not go there

so youre 300+ years old are you?

just because we have some home grown criminals, that means we should do nothing to stop migrant criminals?

Are you for real? Seriously?

it's stupid attitudes like this that lead to rochdale.

[don4l]

JustAnotherLogin said:

But Don41. You ignore the fact that what this govt has done extends beyond cutting the deficit. Because they have a viable economic plan for reversing the debt, and because the UK is experience significant growth when the rest of the world is not, there are other benefits.

This government is not making any progress towards reducing the debt. The debt has practically doubled since they came to power. Meanwhile they are wasting huge amounts of money on useless stuff... like windmills and money for countries that have space programmes.

JustAnotherLogin said:

What really matters is not the debt, but the interest on it.

I said this earlier. We are now paying about £50Bn a year. This figure is rising at about £3Bn a year under the present lot. The rate of increase has slowed, but they could have slowed it much faster without any negative impacts.

JustAnotherLogin said:

As you can see from the link below, this govt has managed to stabilise that remarkably quickly and at a lower level than we had even in the late 1990s

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_1...

That is not to say there won't be a problem when interest rates rise, but the best way out of debt is combining a zero deficit with growth. The deficit has been halved as a proportion of GDP already, but growth is still happening.

As it happens I agree with should cut foreign aid in these circumstances. But far more important is a competent economic plan. Unfortunately only one party has that at the moment. And so I will vote Tory because that is the most important aspect in my view.

I can't speak for Zod's children, but I have high hopes for mine. I would however like them to live in a country that is run competently, and where they can enjoy freedom of movement, and where there is tolerance of different religions, different sexual preferences and different national origins, and indeed an absence of bigotry generally.

Do you really believe that this lot are running the country competently? IMHO, they are marginally better than the last bunch of incompetents. Cameron is little more than "Blair Lite".

[Mr_B]

JustAnotherLogin said:

Is it?

I'm sure I remember crime happening when I was younger

And I'm sure I remember reading that there was crime before joined the EU, or let immigrants come here (excluding the normans, saxons, huegenots, vikings, romans and the other centuries of immigration)

Because just as people don't care whether their phone has been nicked by a gypsy or romanian, they don't care whether it has been nicked by a romanian or brit who can show his ancestry back to Edward the Confessor. Well I suppose some people care, but best not go there

What could go wrong when you a group of people who have an equivalent arrest rate of 1 in 3 for ALL of that group in the whole of the country for just the Met Police area. That alone is a staggering figure which you might find very concerning because if you added in the rest of the Police date, how is the figure not going to be the equivalent of half of all that group being arrested.
For comparison, that's up to 10 times the rate for other groups with the freedom to come.
Do you think it's perhaps things like this that make people look and wonder what the benefit to them and why anyone should be exposed to that vast difference ? The sooner people grow up a touch and talk reality and not diversions, the better.

[JustAnotherLogin]

Scuffers said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

Scuffers said:

Once you have done that, then consider that the issue I posted up is new, and very much solvable by controlling our borders properly.

Is it?

I'm sure I remember crime happening when I was younger

And I'm sure I remember reading that there was crime before joined the EU, or let immigrants come here (excluding the normans, saxons, huegenots, vikings, romans and the other centuries of immigration)

Because just as people don't care whether their phone has been nicked by a gypsy or romanian, they don't care whether it has been nicked by a romanian or brit who can show his ancestry back to Edward the Confessor. Well I suppose some people care, but best not go there

so youre 300+ years old are you?

just because we have some home grown criminals, that means we should do nothing to stop migrant criminals?

Are you for real? Seriously?

it's stupid attitudes like this that lead to rochdale.

So my view is that all crime is as serious irrespective of whether it was done by an immigrant or native born

Your view is that they should be treated differently.

And you think mine led to Rochdale?

Pathetic and ridiculous

[Mrr T]

Scuffers said:

Please explain how allowing Romanian's in as we have for the last ~14 months has enriched our society or helped the economy?

You really do have a problem with Romanians. Have you ever met any? Have you visited Romania?

Of the Romanians I know in the UK (some came more than 14 mths ago and they all live outside London). 3 are qualified nurses, 1 a field service engineer, and another a lorry driver. All those earn at or above the UK average income outside London. 2 work on a farm full time and wages are less than average income but they get accommodations. 2 have partners earning close to minimum wage, but both are also in part time education to increase their qualifications.

2 get child benefit but none have received any other UK benefit.

[Scuffers]

JustAnotherLogin said:

So my view is that all crime is as serious irrespective of whether it was done by an immigrant or native born

Your view is that they should be treated differently.

And you think mine led to Rochdale?

Pathetic and ridiculous

no, not really.

Rochdale happened because people were scared to tackle a section of society for racial reasons.

you being blinkered to the crime wave that is the Romanian migrants is exactly the same.

just to take this one example, h comes into the country, meets up with two of his countrymen, then goes off on a phone harvesting spree.

he's now locked up in a UK prison, so quite apart from coming here to engage in crime, we not only have the cost of his crimes to deal with, we are now housing and feeding him for the next 6 months, at which point, we let him go, and highly likely, it all starts again.

WHY SHOULD WE LET PEOPLE LIKE HIM INTO THE UK IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Yes, we already have criminals here, but this is not an excuse to ignore more being imported.

eg:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/romania...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515917/Po...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120049/Ro...

[steveT350C]

Immigration leads to 50 per cent cuts in council spending, IFS finds
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...

[jogon]

steveT350C said:

Immigration leads to 50 per cent cuts in council spending, IFS finds
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...

But I thought they told us immigration would be a positive for the economy?

[Scuffers]

Mrr T said:

Scuffers said:

Please explain how allowing Romanian's in as we have for the last ~14 months has enriched our society or helped the economy?

You really do have a problem with Romanians. Have you ever met any? Have you visited Romania?

Of the Romanians I know in the UK (some came more than 14 mths ago and they all live outside London). 3 are qualified nurses, 1 a field service engineer, and another a lorry driver. All those earn at or above the UK average income outside London. 2 work on a farm full time and wages are less than average income but they get accommodations. 2 have partners earning close to minimum wage, but both are also in part time education to increase their qualifications.

2 get child benefit but none have received any other UK benefit.

not specifically, no. (I have worked there briefly many moons ago)

I have a problem with open door immigration that allows any tom/dick/etc in without any checks whatsoever.

of your examples, Nurses (suitably qualified) would be welcome, not sure we need more lorry drivers, and without knowing more about the field service engineer's role, cant make much comment on that one.

Edited by Scuffers on Friday 6th March 11:22