UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[WinstonWolf]

jjlynn27 said:

WinstonWolf said:

If you're going to pick someone up on their grammar you should make a bit more effort with your own...

WinstonWolf, the ONLY person who thought that my post about 'every odd bit of every even byte goes via different cable' was serious. UKIP-er? If not, you should be.

You seem to be under the impression you're in some way funny. Allow me to clarify, you're not.

[Esseesse]

Zod said:

You, she and I agree on what is desirable, but UKIP's stated policy is simply to get out. Nothing to do with ties (what a tired metaphor).

Because I think that real reform is unachievable, simply getting out is my desired policy. I see 'paper' reform as a political tool for Cameron (or whoever) to keep us in.

[don4l]

The EU has only ever moved in one direction - towards "ever closer union".

There isn't a hope in Hell that Dave will get a successful renegotiation, and he knows it.

Anyone who believes otherwise is a fool.

[Art0ir]

Zod said:

Not even asking is one way to be sure of not getting what you want.

What will Cameron be asking for?

[Scuffers]

Zod said:

Website says: "UKIP will leave the EU". No talk of negotiation. Just walk away.

are you for real?

Honestly?

it's all very clever playing the game of words, but you know as well as the rest of us the outcome of any negotiations, nothing tangible.

not sure who you're making out to be a bigger fool, CMD or yourself?

[FiF]

Zod said:

FiF said:

On the face of it she seems to be saying something that I thought Zod and I have previously agreed upon. Namely the view generally taken by folks with open minds of waiting to see the results of any negotiation and acknowledge the possibility that on balance it could be worthy of a vote to stay in.

But by his response to the above it seems he is another still trapped in the tribalism of it's something said by someone with the wrong coloured tie is automatically wrong in every respect.

You, she and I agree on what is desirable, but UKIP's stated policy is simply to get out. Nothing to do with ties (what a tired metaphor).

And every single member of the Conservative party is completely on message and fully supportive of everything with no shades of opinion that slightly differs from stated party policy?

Of course they aren't all on message, at times the party pulls itself apart, as does every other party, including UKIP.

No doubt we'll now get the, but UKIP is supposed to be different, another tired gambit.

[Zod]

That is the whole point: we negotiate. THe result of the negotiation is either that we get a package of sensible reforms and Cameron, UKIP's policy chief, NicD, FiF and I (amongst others) will all be happy to vote to stay in the EU or the EU give us nothing material, in which case we will all head for the exit.

[Art0ir]

Zod said:

That is the whole point: we negotiate. THe result of the negotiation is either that we get a package of sensible reforms and Cameron, UKIP's policy chief, NicD, FiF and I (amongst others) will all be happy to vote to stay in the EU or the EU give us nothing material, in which case we will all head for the exit.

How can you negotiate without having a clear outcome in mind?

Cameron is happy with the status quo, that much is clear.

[Esseesse]

Zod said:

That is the whole point: we negotiate. THe result of the negotiation is either that we get a package of sensible reforms and Cameron, UKIP's policy chief, NicD, FiF and I (amongst others) will all be happy to vote to stay in the EU or the EU give us nothing material, in which case we will all head for the exit.

Is the possibility that a Cameron reform would be all spin over substance not one that you consider remotely likely? Can you imagine Cameron telling us that very little reform has been achieved?

[Axionknight]

Zod said:

Website says: "UKIP will leave the EU". No talk of negotiation. Just walk away.

Probably for the best considering the EUs previous belligerence on renegotiation.

[Scuffers]

Art0ir said:

Zod said:

That is the whole point: we negotiate. THe result of the negotiation is either that we get a package of sensible reforms and Cameron, UKIP's policy chief, NicD, FiF and I (amongst others) will all be happy to vote to stay in the EU or the EU give us nothing material, in which case we will all head for the exit.

How can you negotiate without having a clear outcome in mind?

Cameron is happy with the status quo, that much is clear.

Zod is like CMD, completely ungenuine.

CMD is doing this because it's his political future, ZOD because he's just an argumentative troll

[Zod]

Scuffers said:

Art0ir said:

Zod said:

That is the whole point: we negotiate. THe result of the negotiation is either that we get a package of sensible reforms and Cameron, UKIP's policy chief, NicD, FiF and I (amongst others) will all be happy to vote to stay in the EU or the EU give us nothing material, in which case we will all head for the exit.

How can you negotiate without having a clear outcome in mind?

Cameron is happy with the status quo, that much is clear.

Zod is like CMD, completely ungenuine.

CMD is doing this because it's his political future, ZOD because he's just an argumentative troll

Oh, grow up.

[Zod]

Guam said:

Zod said:

That is the whole point: we negotiate. THe result of the negotiation is either that we get a package of sensible reforms and Cameron, UKIP's policy chief, NicD, FiF and I (amongst others) will all be happy to vote to stay in the EU or the EU give us nothing material, in which case we will all head for the exit.

Well given that Tory candidates seem to believe negotiating with the EDL makes for political capital, self delusion over negotiating with the EU makes bizarre sense I suppose!

One, now sacked, idiot.

[Scuffers]

Zod said:

Oh, grow up.

me?

Really?

[Zod]

Guam said:

Zod said:

One, now sacked, idiot.

Me or him?

One caught, what else are they up to?
You gleefully expanded any issue UKIP had with its membership into a torrent of rhetoric aimed at Farage and co, you concerned that the shoe is on the other foot now?

I'll repeat myself yet again: UKIP claims to be different. It is not and it is therefore fair game to highlight the failings of its candidates, jsut as happens with the other parties.

[Mr_B]

Mrr T said:

Mr_B said:

Blimey ! What evidence of sham marriages here ? You are kidding , right ? Sorry, but that's head up your bumhole stuff.

Mrr T said:

Do you ever read the posts before replying?

I know there have been sham marriages although the current Government has made it much harder to get marriage visas.

However, the poster was only referring to sham marriages of non UK EU citizens in the UK. I assume he means to non EU citizens. That I have never seen.

Mr_B said:

You might want to Google for 30 seconds before you reply to not look a fool on a subject you try and blur the reality from. You head is still in the sand, for some reason it's fashionable to do so on such subjects these days.

Do you mean the google search which shows 7, yes 7 prosecutions in the last year.

Also I see Keith Vaz saying there are thousands but presenting no evidence to support his assertion.

So yes I did look. I assume you did not but as normal just assumed you know it all.

So can I suggest before you post you do some research outside the Daily Wail.

If you did you would discover its hard to get a marriage visa.

You cannot marry in the UK if you are only in the UK on a tourist visa.

Looking at the cases in the press I am assuming one partner was in the UK as an asylum seeker and was seeking marriage as they expected, or had already been refused status.

It seems the Government is addressing this issue.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/t...

Yes, the Governments own estimate of 10,000 a year is very much like how you are trying to present it when you mention 7 convictions.

[Scuffers]

Zod said:

I'll repeat myself yet again: UKIP claims to be different. It is not and it is therefore fair game to highlight the failings of its candidates, jsut as happens with the other parties.

so, now you're some kind of political vigilante?

[don4l]

Zod said:

I'll repeat myself yet again: UKIP claims to be different. It is not and it is therefore fair game to highlight the failings of its candidates, jsut as happens with the other parties.

Are you saying that fraud, hypocrisy and kiddie fiddling are acceptable in the other parties?

[Art0ir]

Scuffers said:

Art0ir said:

Zod said:

That is the whole point: we negotiate. THe result of the negotiation is either that we get a package of sensible reforms and Cameron, UKIP's policy chief, NicD, FiF and I (amongst others) will all be happy to vote to stay in the EU or the EU give us nothing material, in which case we will all head for the exit.

How can you negotiate without having a clear outcome in mind?

Cameron is happy with the status quo, that much is clear.

Zod is like CMD, completely ungenuine.

CMD is doing this because it's his political future, ZOD because he's just an argumentative troll

Having a different view on a given subject doesn't make you a troll. I've seen vitriol directed at him and from him, but I wouldn't call him a troll. More a sad reflection on the behaviour of the participants in this discussion.

There are a number of trolls on this thread, but I don't think he's one of them.

[Mrr T]

Mr_B said:

Mrr T said:

Do you ever read the posts before replying?

I know there have been sham marriages although the current Government has made it much harder to get marriage visas.

However, the poster was only referring to sham marriages of non UK EU citizens in the UK. I assume he means to non EU citizens. That I have never seen.

Mr_B said:

You might want to Google for 30 seconds before you reply to not look a fool on a subject you try and blur the reality from. You head is still in the sand, for some reason it's fashionable to do so on such subjects these days.

Mrr T said:

Do you mean the google search which shows 7, yes 7 prosecutions in the last year.

Also I see Keith Vaz saying there are thousands but presenting no evidence to support his assertion.

So yes I did look. I assume you did not but as normal just assumed you know it all.

So can I suggest before you post you do some research outside the Daily Wail.

If you did you would discover its hard to get a marriage visa.

You cannot marry in the UK if you are only in the UK on a tourist visa.

Looking at the cases in the press I am assuming one partner was in the UK as an asylum seeker and was seeking marriage as they expected, or had already been refused status.

It seems the Government is addressing this issue.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/t...

Mr_B said:

Yes, the Governments own estimate of 10,000 a year is very much like how you are trying to present it when you mention 7 convictions.

The Government estimate of 10k of sham marriages made in 2013 give no split between marriages where one part in a UK citizen and those where one party is a non UK, EU citizens.

Did you miss that point? So still no evidence to support the claim.