Bike thief drowns after cycling straight into harbour.

[CamMoreRon]

voyds9 said:

Surely, you mean another opportunity.

If he decided not to make use of school, careers advice and job opportunities why should we waste more money on him.

Let us instead us that money on people who have decided to live within normal society, those who attended education but are unable to find a well paying job, or even those that have good jobs, lets provide them with more opportunity as they may increase their pay and therefore pay more tax and so enable the system to help others.

You seem to be under the illusion that this guy came from a balanced background and it was his decision to reject all that and stuff everything up. People get born in to poverty, neglect, abuse, and grow up having to battle against all that. It shapes their decision making in later life, and yes they may foolishly squander opportunities like primary education or menial jobs. I guarantee you the majority of them regret those actions and wish they had known how to make the most of them.

It's too easy to simplify the situation to them choosing their lifestyle. It may well be true that their actions were voluntary, but they didn't necessarily have a choice.

[sidicks]

Jim the Sunderer said:

He was framed.

If only someone had put the brakes on his criminal career before it got this far.

[sidicks]

Perhaps he was saddled with too much responsibility from an early age?

[WinstonWolf]

CamMoreRon said:

voyds9 said:

Surely, you mean another opportunity.

If he decided not to make use of school, careers advice and job opportunities why should we waste more money on him.

Let us instead us that money on people who have decided to live within normal society, those who attended education but are unable to find a well paying job, or even those that have good jobs, lets provide them with more opportunity as they may increase their pay and therefore pay more tax and so enable the system to help others.

You seem to be under the illusion that this guy came from a balanced background and it was his decision to reject all that and stuff everything up. People get born in to poverty, neglect, abuse, and grow up having to battle against all that. It shapes their decision making in later life, and yes they may foolishly squander opportunities like primary education or menial jobs. I guarantee you the majority of them regret those actions and wish they had known how to make the most of them.

It's too easy to simplify the situation to them choosing their lifestyle. It may well be true that their actions were voluntary, but they didn't necessarily have a choice.

If you were a breeder would you choose unsuitable stock?

[Joey Ramone]

H

Johnnytheboy said:

Joey Ramone said:

Many of you rejoicing over this lad's demise are parents of young or teenage children. I'll put money on the fact that some of those children will grow up to do something stupid one day. Maybe something criminal.

Let's say your kid stole a bike. And then died as a consequence. Hopefully you could deal happily with the fact that strangers on some internet forum were celebrating his death.

He deserved a beating, for sure. He didn't deserve to die though.

People who die accidentally never "deserve it" in the classic sense. But some have it coming. Part of growing up is realising actions have consequences.

Indeed. And my point was that the appropriate 'consequence' in this instance was on the level of a beating. Not death.

[grumbledoak]

Jim the Sunderer said:

He was framed.

Winner!

[CamMoreRon]

WinstonWolf said:

If you were a breeder would you choose unsuitable stock?

Right, so your solution is to go round the ghettos with a bolt gun?

Godwin's Law.. so hard to resist..

[CAPP0]

Whilst I'm not, as has been levelled at some posters, "celebrating" the thief's death, I'm certainly not mourning it either. He was entirely culpable for his actions and his own demise. There cannot ever, ever be any justification for theft of a fellow human's possessions, and if he had not taken this bike, he would probably still be alive. Had he climbed onto the roof of a building to steal the lead, and fallen to his death, same equation. He is was the author of his own misfortune.

Edited by CAPP0 on Monday 13th October 13:33

[sidicks]

CamMoreRon said:

Right, so your solution is to go round the ghettos with a bolt gun?

Godwin's Law.. so hard to resist..

Two key points:

1) It's hard to have sympathy given the situation. That's quite different than 'enjoying' the outcome.

2) With limited funds, it's hard to justify investing more time and effort into people like this (who have already had and blown previous opportunities), rather then spend the money on those who deserve more

[Cotty]

No sympathy and he won't do it again. Maybe death for stealing a bike is a heavy price but thats the decision he chose.

[Kermit power]

CamMoreRon said:

Kermit power said:

Chances are he'd have another way to eat later if he'd not blown the proceeds of his crimes on drugs.

I'd be more willing to contemplate having sympathy for criminals if the scummy fkers ever actually got any sort of reasonably harsh sentence when they got caught.

Right.. and when a person values numbing themselves to the unrelenting stness of their life over securing their next meal, what does that say to you?

It says they should've worked a bit harder to get a decent standard of living, rather than expecting the rest of us to pay for their existence, either via benefits or by providing stuff for them to steal.

Build a few more prisons, give them a couple of chances, and if they continue the way they are, just chuck away the keys. Yes, it might cost money to keep them locked up, but how much does it cost to investigate their crimes and rectify the damage they cause?

[WinstonWolf]

CamMoreRon said:

WinstonWolf said:

If you were a breeder would you choose unsuitable stock?

Right, so your solution is to go round the ghettos with a bolt gun?

Godwin's Law.. so hard to resist..

No need, Darwin has taken care of this one already...

[paranoid airbag]

sidicks said:

CamMoreRon said:

Right, so your solution is to go round the ghettos with a bolt gun?

Godwin's Law.. so hard to resist..

Two key points:

1) It's hard to have sympathy given the situation. That's quite different than 'enjoying' the outcome.

2) With limited funds, it's hard to justify investing more time and effort into people like this (who have already had and blown previous opportunities), rather then spend the money on those who deserve more

This. Although talking about "breeding stock" is indeed a point where comparisons to the angry german fellow are actually entirely fair. Whoever said that should really reconsider... just about everything.

Entirely possible, likely even, this scrote was also a victim of the system and uncaring society, broken home, failed by education and the law etc etc.

The number of people who end up going down that path IS worth caring about.

The fate of one of them, almost certainly too far gone to recover, isn't. Well, unless you're a pastor-type with far more patience and compassion than me. In that case, you have my respect - you are, and I say this entirely seriously, a better person than I.

Within my more limited compassion, however, I will try and better humanity in my way, which is one that involves using my compassion more sparingly, only where I think it's going to make the most effect. And probably preventing myself getting disheartened by finding humour where I can, including the ridiculously bad decisions some former people have made .

Edited by paranoid airbag on Monday 13th October 15:26

[Lost soul]

The Spruce goose said:

NicD said:

justice

death for a bike I wouldn't call justice .

He did not have to steal it

[FlashmanChop]

The Spruce goose said:

i have seen 2 people die before my eyes and even thou your comment is standard ph fair, death should never be taken likely, and over a bike is just pointless.

shouldn't have stolen it then!

[Cliftonite]

mccrackenj said:

I'd write for an ambulance.

First Class stamp, I hope!

[cptsideways]

Cliftonite said:

mccrackenj said:

I'd write for an ambulance.

First Class stamp, I hope!

Only a recycled one

[dandarez]

CamMoreRon said:

voyds9 said:

Surely, you mean another opportunity.

If he decided not to make use of school, careers advice and job opportunities why should we waste more money on him.

Let us instead us that money on people who have decided to live within normal society, those who attended education but are unable to find a well paying job, or even those that have good jobs, lets provide them with more opportunity as they may increase their pay and therefore pay more tax and so enable the system to help others.

You seem to be under the illusion that this guy came from a balanced background and it was his decision to reject all that and stuff everything up. People get born in to poverty, neglect, abuse, and grow up having to battle against all that. It shapes their decision making in later life, and yes they may foolishly squander opportunities like primary education or menial jobs. I guarantee you the majority of them regret those actions and wish they had known how to make the most of them.

It's too easy to simplify the situation to them choosing their lifestyle. It may well be true that their actions were voluntary, but they didn't necessarily have a choice.

Yeah, and he made the wrong one.

I'd like more cash. Wouldn't we all. I could probably walk into a building soc. or bank and if I did it the once possibly get away with it, but I don't even take the chance because I realise, and KNOW, it's wrong. Hence I never make that sort of wrong choice.

Where would your thoughts be if this 'scum' had careered into, let's say (as it could be quite feasible) a young mother and a babe in a pram and the pram went over the quayside with him and the bike, and not only he drowns, but the babe too.

Still feel for him?

[anonymous-user]

Ridiculous analogy

[dandarez]

Jimboka said:

Ridiculous analogy

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