Tory plan for Budget March 2015 to help win election

Tory plan for Budget March 2015 to help win election

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Welshbeef

Original Poster:

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Anyone think they will increase min wage to £7 from Oct 2015 and up min tax threshold to £11k. And also commit that all public sector will pay the living wage be it directly employer or subcontracted (UK wide so Scott's too).


Reason - if they lose labour cannot reverse it, if they win they are seen as champions for the lower earners.





Also I think its pretty sensible to do- and also cut benefits to fund work apprentices.

gamefreaks

1,955 posts

186 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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I think it depends on what the polls look like...

If it still looks like a Labour majority then I would expect a poison pill or two, just like Labour did with the 50% tax rate...

rover 623gsi

5,230 posts

160 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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the govt has already committed to raising the personal allowance from £10,000 to £10,500 from April 2015 so promising to increase it to £11k wouldn't be particularly earth shattering.

king arthur

6,542 posts

260 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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gamefreaks said:
I think it depends on what the polls look like...

If it still looks like a Labour majority then I would expect a poison pill or two, just like Labour did with the 50% tax rate...
The polls may point to Labour majority but many of the bookies seem to be making 'no overall majority' as the favourite result.

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
rover 623gsi said:
the govt has already committed to raising the personal allowance from £10,000 to £10,500 from April 2015 so promising to increase it to £11k wouldn't be particularly earth shattering.
But its a huge impact and would come in from 2016 Apr. Sure if labour did come in they could cancel this and then Torys or anyone else could use the line "a labour govt taxing the hardest and lowest paid in the country while the Torys have them a tax cut".

Labour used the line tax cut for millionaires - well I wonder how well a tax rise for the lowest paid would go down.


It would also nullify the Labour 10% tax band - so they would have to either up the tax on low paid or keep the Tory policy a victory for the Torys or have to do both but then where does the spending cuts or tax rises come from?

Croutons

9,809 posts

165 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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I know you're a Tory fanboi but jeez, you really are scraping the barrel here-

They're not acutally in power you know, so they don't get to decide alone. This is why the "evil" Lib Dems have scuppered some of their election pledges (and essentially, let them get away with dropping some of the things they said they'd do). Just not all of them, some of which will be rembered...

And sooner or later at least one party will stop pissing around with this nonsense of raising the income tax level and deal with the stupidity of "no income tax" but st loads of national insurance still kicking in anyway, which just makes a farce of continuing to up one threshold and not that too.

What they will do is make loads of election pledges, just like last time, and we'll have to see if a coalition saves their skin in failing to deliver them...

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
So you ignored the other bits I stated as real options to help the lowest paid and I used on the income tax threshold rising further... Guess you are a labour supporter from birth to grave wink

Super Slo Mo

5,368 posts

197 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
It would also nullify the Labour 10% tax band - so they would have to either up the tax on low paid or keep the Tory policy a victory for the Torys or have to do both but then where does the spending cuts or tax rises come from?
There is no 10% band (other than for savings), Gordon Brown axed this ages ago, admittedly he re-instated it for a year, but it slipped away without anyone noticing or really complaining.

Jasandjules

69,826 posts

228 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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I think that it will be too little too late to save them.

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Super Slo Mo said:
Welshbeef said:
It would also nullify the Labour 10% tax band - so they would have to either up the tax on low paid or keep the Tory policy a victory for the Torys or have to do both but then where does the spending cuts or tax rises come from?
There is no 10% band (other than for savings), Gordon Brown axed this ages ago, admittedly he re-instated it for a year, but it slipped away without anyone noticing or really complaining.
I'm fully aware of that - but in the recent party conf one of the pledges by Labour was to introduce a 10% income tax band and to increase the 45% to 50% one pays for the other apparently.

They also said about the mansion tax expecting £1.5billion to invest in the NHS and close the funding Gap - though as its been confirmed there will be a £30billion gap by 2020 ed Balls didn't really answer the question.

Ed balls also ignored the question what will you cut or increase taxes on to eliminate the expected £85billion defecit ? Answer he came out with was a £400m saving... Um that's great in isolation but what about the other £80billion what's the plan? His sole response and other Labour responses is the economy will improve to find it.
So given the forecasts are not great for the EU and 50% of out GDP goes there well that and a slowdown in China = contraction /recession in the UK. That means zero deficit reduction.



So what is the plan? What will labour do differently to Tory? A genuine question especially as they have signed up to the spending plans by the Torys which goes near on the whole length of the next parliment - including a £25billion public sector cut.... Which nothing has been detailed about what how which who will be cut.


legzr1

3,843 posts

138 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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Jasandjules said:
I think that it will be too little too late to save them.
smile

Croutons

9,809 posts

165 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Guess you are a labour supporter from birth to grave wink
Never have, never will, to date always the blue team, but they're making it fking difficult ths time round, and as most of your points were nonsense ("champions of the lower earners") I did indeed ignore them.

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
I think that it will be too little too late to save them.
But they will be setting up labour to fail - snookering them for a better term.


Labour continue with the suggested increases = they agree with Tory policy
Labour reverse these policies - seen as anti working class and want tax rises for the poorest and hardest workers
Labour continue it and scrap their pledge - Tory win
Labour continue and increase it by their pledge - just what else are you going to cut?


Labour continue - questions instantly what will you cut to fund it?

jogon

2,971 posts

157 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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With the SNP rise up north, UKIP surge across many parts of England thanks to a pro-EU PM and oppostion leader, Lib Dems hitting the self destruct button and catastrophic failings in the labour governed NHS over in Wales and we are set for very unpredictable political times ahead and long shall it continue.



vonuber

17,868 posts

164 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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I suspect they will do whatever best feathers their own and their mate's nests.

Super Slo Mo

5,368 posts

197 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
I'm fully aware of that - but in the recent party conf one of the pledges by Labour was to introduce a 10% income tax band and to increase the 45% to 50% one pays for the other apparently.

They also said about the mansion tax expecting £1.5billion to invest in the NHS and close the funding Gap - though as its been confirmed there will be a £30billion gap by 2020 ed Balls didn't really answer the question.

Ed balls also ignored the question what will you cut or increase taxes on to eliminate the expected £85billion defecit ? Answer he came out with was a £400m saving... Um that's great in isolation but what about the other £80billion what's the plan? His sole response and other Labour responses is the economy will improve to find it.
So given the forecasts are not great for the EU and 50% of out GDP goes there well that and a slowdown in China = contraction /recession in the UK. That means zero deficit reduction.



So what is the plan? What will labour do differently to Tory? A genuine question especially as they have signed up to the spending plans by the Torys which goes near on the whole length of the next parliment - including a £25billion public sector cut.... Which nothing has been detailed about what how which who will be cut.
Gotcha, I know nothing about what went on at any of the conferences, hence the confusion. I do, however, wish they'd all get on with doing the best for the country instead of trying to score cheap points of each other.

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
Well Govt borrowing is up 10% on last year... So give always would unless things improve look naive and the voters should realise.


However it raises a difficult issue for labour just how do you offer anything different to what the Tory's are delivering? Its either much more cuts or raising taxes. On the raising of Taxes IIRC income tax total take is c£130billion so to close the current deficit of £100billion would require the Labour Govt to increase income taxes by 75%.... Just think about that for a second! Now the realisation that cutting spending is the only option available - its needs to be quick else the EU recession issue will snowball and push us back to £160billion deficit before we know it + interest % on our borrowing will increase resulting in even more tax rises/spending cuts.



BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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Tax cuts and/or public sector salary rises have to be paid for from somewhere. How could the Tories promise such things whilst still meeting the deficit reduction targets?

Of course they could say something like 'we're slashing foreign aid by half and with the savings we'll cut tax X by Y percent'. But they won't do this because 1-they don't want to and 2-even if they did want to the Lib Dems would not let them get away with it.

Edited by BlackLabel on Tuesday 21st October 15:36

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
Tax cuts and/or public sector salary rises have to be paid for from somewhere. How could the Tories promise such things whilst still meeting the deficit reduction targets?

Of course they could say something like 'we're slashing foreign aid by half and with the savings we'll cut tax X by Y percent'. But they won't do this because 1-they don't want to and 2-even if they did want to the Lib Dems would not let them get away with it.

Edited by BlackLabel on Tuesday 21st October 15:36
So if Labour Pledge to lower lowest income tax rate to £0 so everyone suddenly pays tax to help cut the defecit. Now do you think those impacted will vote for that ? Or do you think they would be selfish and if a party promises to increase tax free income tax of increase min wage then you'd vote for them.



Actually increasing min wage may actually help with wage inflation issues the auK is facing

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Reason - if they lose labour cannot reverse it, if they win they are seen as champions for the lower earners.
My understanding is that one government cannot hold the government that succeeds it to such an arrangement, only if the Tories claimed they would do it and used that to "drop Labour in it" would it work, and barely at all at that, as much of the electorate have a short memory.

Alistair Darling issued a spending review some time in 2009 with regards to tidying up the UK public spending figures by 2014/2015, but it was derided by just about everyone in Government as there was no way that the government that would end up winning the 2010 election could be held to account by such a plan.

One person who lambasted this idea/plan above all others was a certain George Osbourne - in opposition at the time, who has, since gaining office, made claims similar to those he derided with regards to spending plans continuing beyond the date of the 2015 election.