Tories the future (part1)
Discussion
Right. So in company accounts terms the national debt is the net liabilities (the balance sheet "bottom line"); the deficit the the annual level of net losses, and anything as a % of GDP is equivalent to a % of turnover (?).
UK PLC has been balance sheet insolvent for many years, and making moderate losses, increasing the level of its balance sheet insolvency.
In the two years 2008-2010 it made massive losses, and its balance sheet insolvency leapt.
Since then, it has continued to make large losses, but each year's large loss has been smaller than the preceding year. So the debt/level of balance sheet insolvency has continued to grow, but at a slower rate.
According to projections, in 2017-2018, UK PLC should return to profit - just - and its level of debt/balance sheet insolvency will start to fall
Overall, during this Parliament, the national debt has risen from £0.91 trillion to and estimated £1.36 trillion - an increase of 50% (and not 100%, as suggested upthread).
Is that about it?
UK PLC has been balance sheet insolvent for many years, and making moderate losses, increasing the level of its balance sheet insolvency.
In the two years 2008-2010 it made massive losses, and its balance sheet insolvency leapt.
Since then, it has continued to make large losses, but each year's large loss has been smaller than the preceding year. So the debt/level of balance sheet insolvency has continued to grow, but at a slower rate.
According to projections, in 2017-2018, UK PLC should return to profit - just - and its level of debt/balance sheet insolvency will start to fall
Overall, during this Parliament, the national debt has risen from £0.91 trillion to and estimated £1.36 trillion - an increase of 50% (and not 100%, as suggested upthread).
Is that about it?
"Boris Johnson 'intends to renounce US citizenship
Boris Johnson says he intends to renounce his American citizenship to prove his "commitment to Britain".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31475945
Boris Johnson says he intends to renounce his American citizenship to prove his "commitment to Britain".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31475945
Tories frothing about the Church of England pastoral letter apparently.
Setting aside the religious part of the message, and the usual the Church should keep out of politics, aspects of the message worthy of a listen.
Just short extracts below, and don't anyone start the usual diversions of why did you choose to just quote that bit. Too many quotable sections frankly.
Setting aside the religious part of the message, and the usual the Church should keep out of politics, aspects of the message worthy of a listen.
Just short extracts below, and don't anyone start the usual diversions of why did you choose to just quote that bit. Too many quotable sections frankly.
Pastoral letter said:
parties generate policies targeted at specific demographic groupings, fashioned by expediency rather than vision or even consistency.
The time has surely come to move beyond mere “retail politics”, where parties tailor their policies to the groups whose votes they need, regardless of the good of the majority, whilst lobbyists, pressure groups and sectional interests come armed with their policy shopping lists and judge politicians by how many items they promise to deliver. Instead of treating politics as an extension of consumerism, we should focus on the common good, the participation of more people in developing a political vision and constructive ways to talk about communities and how they relate to one another.
https://www.churchofengland.org/media-centre/news/...The time has surely come to move beyond mere “retail politics”, where parties tailor their policies to the groups whose votes they need, regardless of the good of the majority, whilst lobbyists, pressure groups and sectional interests come armed with their policy shopping lists and judge politicians by how many items they promise to deliver. Instead of treating politics as an extension of consumerism, we should focus on the common good, the participation of more people in developing a political vision and constructive ways to talk about communities and how they relate to one another.
FiF said:
Seems common purpose has infected the CofE now as they try to backtrack on the reformation in the 16th century, withe their now pro EU integration stance, along with issues like gay marriage and now women bishops are they really suprised when congregations have fallen to an all time low. If it wasn't for our new Eastern European residents they would probably be empty. FiF said:
Tories frothing about the Church of England pastoral letter apparently.
Setting aside the religious part of the message, and the usual the Church should keep out of politics, aspects of the message worthy of a listen.
Just short extracts below, and don't anyone start the usual diversions of why did you choose to just quote that bit. Too many quotable sections frankly.
Seems to be a lot of truth to what they say, there isn't much inspiration in modern political talk or a vision of the future, it just seems to be endless sniping at each other and demonisation of various people in society by both sides.Setting aside the religious part of the message, and the usual the Church should keep out of politics, aspects of the message worthy of a listen.
Just short extracts below, and don't anyone start the usual diversions of why did you choose to just quote that bit. Too many quotable sections frankly.
Pastoral letter said:
parties generate policies targeted at specific demographic groupings, fashioned by expediency rather than vision or even consistency.
The time has surely come to move beyond mere “retail politics”, where parties tailor their policies to the groups whose votes they need, regardless of the good of the majority, whilst lobbyists, pressure groups and sectional interests come armed with their policy shopping lists and judge politicians by how many items they promise to deliver. Instead of treating politics as an extension of consumerism, we should focus on the common good, the participation of more people in developing a political vision and constructive ways to talk about communities and how they relate to one another.
https://www.churchofengland.org/media-centre/news/...The time has surely come to move beyond mere “retail politics”, where parties tailor their policies to the groups whose votes they need, regardless of the good of the majority, whilst lobbyists, pressure groups and sectional interests come armed with their policy shopping lists and judge politicians by how many items they promise to deliver. Instead of treating politics as an extension of consumerism, we should focus on the common good, the participation of more people in developing a political vision and constructive ways to talk about communities and how they relate to one another.
The people want Boris but the party favour May.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/90562802-c34a-11e4-ac3d-...
FT.com said:
Theresa May, home secretary, is seen by prospective Conservative MPs as a more likely party leader than Boris Johnson, the London mayor, according to a survey of Tory candidates in winnable seats.
The Populus “future MP panel” poll found that 26 per cent of respondents thought that Ms May would be the next party leader — whether in six months or six years.
Meanwhile 22 per cent thought that Mr Johnson would succeed David Cameron and 12 per cent thought it would be Sajid Javid, the Thatcherite culture secretary, and a rising star of the Tory right.
However none of the Tory candidates in the survey thought that George Osborne, the chancellor, would succeed Mr Cameron as leader, in spite of the fact that his economic record is at the heart of the Conservative campaign.
Full article here:The Populus “future MP panel” poll found that 26 per cent of respondents thought that Ms May would be the next party leader — whether in six months or six years.
Meanwhile 22 per cent thought that Mr Johnson would succeed David Cameron and 12 per cent thought it would be Sajid Javid, the Thatcherite culture secretary, and a rising star of the Tory right.
However none of the Tory candidates in the survey thought that George Osborne, the chancellor, would succeed Mr Cameron as leader, in spite of the fact that his economic record is at the heart of the Conservative campaign.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/90562802-c34a-11e4-ac3d-...
eveningstandard said:
Boris Johnson should take over from David Cameron if the General Election ends in deadlock and the country is asked to go to the polls again in the autumn, Londoners say.
The Mayor has twice as much support as other senior Tories to succeed Mr Cameron as party leader if there is a historic second General Election this year, according to an exclusive YouGov poll for the Standard.
Four in 10 Londoners who expressed a view said Mr Johnson would make the best leader in such a scenario, while 33 per cent backed Mr Cameron, according to the survey.
Home Secretary Theresa May was in third place on 18 per cent, while Chancellor George Osborne managed just six per cent, and Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond was favoured by three per cent.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-is-londons-choice-to-replace-david-cameron-if-election-ends-in-deadlock-10088067.htmlThe Mayor has twice as much support as other senior Tories to succeed Mr Cameron as party leader if there is a historic second General Election this year, according to an exclusive YouGov poll for the Standard.
Four in 10 Londoners who expressed a view said Mr Johnson would make the best leader in such a scenario, while 33 per cent backed Mr Cameron, according to the survey.
Home Secretary Theresa May was in third place on 18 per cent, while Chancellor George Osborne managed just six per cent, and Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond was favoured by three per cent.
killingjoker said:
Esseesse said:
The future will most likely involve the continued slide in support, as the Conservative voting sheep gradually wake up to the realisation that 'their' party does not represent their views.
Much as with the other main parties 
Esseesse said:
This is hardly surprising as they're all EU Federalists.
None of the main parties in England and Wales are EU "federalists". 2 of them are pro-EU, one appears ambivalent and is offering a referendum on EU membership but is itself split between pro and anti-EU factions, with probably a few "not sure"s in there as well. But nobody is supporting closer political union within the EU. Them's the facts so stop twisting them.Bluebarge said:
Esseesse said:
This is hardly surprising as they're all EU Federalists.
None of the main parties in England and Wales are EU "federalists". 2 of them are pro-EU, one appears ambivalent and is offering a referendum on EU membership but is itself split between pro and anti-EU factions, with probably a few "not sure"s in there as well. But nobody is supporting closer political union within the EU. Them's the facts so stop twisting them.Esseesse said:
The future will most likely involve the continued slide in support, as the Conservative voting sheep gradually wake up to the realisation that 'their' party does not represent their views.
"Continued Slide"?
When will you wake up to the realisation that people who disagree with you are not "sheep"; are not "hoodwindked", and that they just have different views to you. And that the conservative party has not gine left wing. Its just a minority of votes like you with a very narrow focus of issues that have left.
Which is why there is no "continued slide".
Quite the contrary, support for the Conservative party has risen in the last 2 years according to the polls. Slowly it is true, but it has risen.
Esseesse said:
The EU is designed to be an "ever closer union", that's a fact. If you support it, you support an ever closer union. The Tory party has been at least as pro-EU as any other party in government. They often make out that they're not to deceive their voters whom they care about only at election time. You're the one twisting the facts.
Sorry, but the "ever closer union" wording is just some symbolic language from the Treaty of Rome in 1957 (before the UK signed up to the "Common Market"). It does not imply a federal Europe, or more transfer of powers, as the European Council made clear last year - see para 27http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/doc...
So your inference that everyone who supports the EU is a federalist is a complete nonsense and a manifest distortion of the facts.
JustAnotherLogin said:
"Continued Slide"
?
When will you wake up to the realisation that people who disagree with you are not "sheep"; are not "hoodwindked", and that they just have different views to you. And that the conservative party has not gine left wing. Its just a minority of votes like you with a very narrow focus of issues that have left.
Which is why there is no "continued slide".
Quite the contrary, support for the Conservative party has risen in the last 2 years according to the polls. Slowly it is true, but it has risen.
Why has Tory party membership halved since Cameron took over the helm? ?
When will you wake up to the realisation that people who disagree with you are not "sheep"; are not "hoodwindked", and that they just have different views to you. And that the conservative party has not gine left wing. Its just a minority of votes like you with a very narrow focus of issues that have left.
Which is why there is no "continued slide".
Quite the contrary, support for the Conservative party has risen in the last 2 years according to the polls. Slowly it is true, but it has risen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cam...
jogon said:
Why has Tory party membership halved since Cameron took over the helm?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cam...
The piece also says:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cam...
"Membership of both the Labour and Liberal Democrat parties has fallen in recent years."
Nobody except the fevered core joins a political party. In general the young don't join, and probably don't even realise there is such a thing as joining a political party. And older people die. Political "party membership" is a bit like "church congregation". It's an irrelevance to the vast majority.
JustAnotherLogin said:
"Continued Slide"
?
When will you wake up to the realisation that people who disagree with you are not "sheep"; are not "hoodwindked", and that they just have different views to you. And that the conservative party has not gine left wing. Its just a minority of votes like you with a very narrow focus of issues that have left.
Which is why there is no "continued slide".
Quite the contrary, support for the Conservative party has risen in the last 2 years according to the polls. Slowly it is true, but it has risen.
?
When will you wake up to the realisation that people who disagree with you are not "sheep"; are not "hoodwindked", and that they just have different views to you. And that the conservative party has not gine left wing. Its just a minority of votes like you with a very narrow focus of issues that have left.
Which is why there is no "continued slide".
Quite the contrary, support for the Conservative party has risen in the last 2 years according to the polls. Slowly it is true, but it has risen.
jogon said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
"Continued Slide"
?
When will you wake up to the realisation that people who disagree with you are not "sheep"; are not "hoodwindked", and that they just have different views to you. And that the conservative party has not gine left wing. Its just a minority of votes like you with a very narrow focus of issues that have left.
Which is why there is no "continued slide".
Quite the contrary, support for the Conservative party has risen in the last 2 years according to the polls. Slowly it is true, but it has risen.
Why has Tory party membership halved since Cameron took over the helm? ?
When will you wake up to the realisation that people who disagree with you are not "sheep"; are not "hoodwindked", and that they just have different views to you. And that the conservative party has not gine left wing. Its just a minority of votes like you with a very narrow focus of issues that have left.
Which is why there is no "continued slide".
Quite the contrary, support for the Conservative party has risen in the last 2 years according to the polls. Slowly it is true, but it has risen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cam...
Essessee comented on a "continued slide"
I pointed out that in the last 2 years it has risen according to polls
So how can a report dated 2 years ago contradict that? Even allowing for the fact that I was talking about voter support not membership
But if you want membership, 30s on google shows that has risen too
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2014/...
Thus bucking the trend of major party membership for the last few decades. Despite taking over an economy in a dire state.
So once again, not a continued slide, either in voter intentions or membership
JustAnotherLogin said:
Is this really so difficult?
Essessee comented on a "continued slide"
I pointed out that in the last 2 years it has risen according to polls
So how can a report dated 2 years ago contradict that? Even allowing for the fact that I was talking about voter support not membership
But if you want membership, 30s on google shows that has risen too
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2014/...
Thus bucking the trend of major party membership for the last few decades. Despite taking over an economy in a dire state.
So once again, not a continued slide, either in voter intentions or membership
I'm sorry but I struggle to believe any article written by Grant Shapps the man is a compulsive liar.Essessee comented on a "continued slide"
I pointed out that in the last 2 years it has risen according to polls
So how can a report dated 2 years ago contradict that? Even allowing for the fact that I was talking about voter support not membership
But if you want membership, 30s on google shows that has risen too
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2014/...
Thus bucking the trend of major party membership for the last few decades. Despite taking over an economy in a dire state.
So once again, not a continued slide, either in voter intentions or membership
jogon said:
I'm sorry but I struggle to believe any article written by Grant Shapps the man is a compulsive liar.
Odd. Since the article you quoted before was based on figures released by himBut then as per the other thread, Kippers don't trust any source that ever publishes something they disagree with.
Newspapers, BBC, business organisations, polling organisations, think tanks, universities: all are biased.
Only UKIP tell the truth
There is an irony that the longer we go on, the more Kippers sound like the communist party
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