Tories the future (part1)

[irocfan]

BlackLabel said:

Assuming the polls are correct and we see a remain vote next month how long will Dave last?

Apparently the Gruan has leave a few points ahead - and (in Hull at least) youngsters looking to vote leave. It'll all be in vain though - the EU can't afford to let Brexit happen so it won't

[Mario149]

So how exactly would the EU, our arch nemesis it seems, stop us?

[tarnished]

Step 1 in their manual seems to be to ask the question again until they get the answer they want.

[powerstroke]

BlackLabel said:

"The NHS would be as safe as a pet hamster in the presence of hungry python if Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Iain Duncan Smith rose to power following Brexit, Sir John Major has said."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/jo...


What a horrible campaign number 10 are running (and Major is a fool for being used as a pawn) - they are willing to do anything to win the referendum even if that means ripping apart their own party.

What a wker another tory leader who fked you, the ERM .... Christ you would think the st would keep his head down
and we think Gordon and Tony were bad !! the arrogance of 3rd rate politicans

[irocfan]

Mario149 said:

So how exactly would the EU, our arch nemesis it seems, stop us?

OK - poor choice of words... THE EU through its puppets might have been a better thing to say

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

[FiF]

Apparently Tories fuming now because Dave is going to take the stage today and align with Greens and Lib Dems.

[turbobloke]

FiF said:

Apparently Tories fuming now because Dave is going to take the stage today and align with Greens and Lib Dems.

Jeez.

[BlackLabel]

Jacob Rees-Mogg on Radio 4’s Westminster Hour.

The Mogg said:

What we’ve had today are the bitter ramblings of a vengeful man,

He is the man who took us into the Exchange Rate Mechanism, destroyed hundreds of thousands of jobs, had people evicted from their homes and led to the destruction of businesses for the sake of his failed European policy.

And now he says things that are both hypocritical and untrue in his attack on Boris. And how magnanimous Boris was in saying we should rise above it; well, I’m going to sling the mud straight back at Sir John Major, a knight of the garter who ought to know how to behave better, who has said things about our campaign and then responds by using the most dishonest figure from their campaign about three million jobs...

We have an extraordinary attack, a hypocritical attack using dodgy figures of his own and it’s all to do with his bitterness over his failings that came from the Exchange Rate Mechanism that tarnished his whole prime ministership.

[turbobloke]

"...destroyed hundreds of thousands of jobs, had people evicted from their homes and led to the destruction of businesses for the sake of his failed European policy..."

That blast from the Major past sounds like today with the EU and Greece, Spain et al.

Plus ça change.

[Mario149]

tarnished said:

Step 1 in their manual seems to be to ask the question again until they get the answer they want.

You must be one of those people who don't understand what happened in the Irish referendum.

[Mario149]

irocfan said:

Mario149 said:

So how exactly would the EU, our arch nemesis it seems, stop us?

OK - poor choice of words... THE EU through its puppets might have been a better thing to say

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

So a majority of MPs who we voted in based on their politics would vote, wait for it, according to their politics? Shocking, truly shocking. The irony of course is that you would no doubt be happy to bulldoze over than part of our democracy while presumably as a Leave supporter you take issue with the perceived lack of democracy in the EU.

[irocfan]

Mario149 said:

irocfan said:

Mario149 said:

So how exactly would the EU, our arch nemesis it seems, stop us?

OK - poor choice of words... THE EU through its puppets might have been a better thing to say

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

So a majority of MPs who we voted in based on their politics would vote, wait for it, according to their politics? Shocking, truly shocking. The irony of course is that you would no doubt be happy to bulldoze over than part of our democracy while presumably as a Leave supporter you take issue with the perceived lack of democracy in the EU.

well the thing is that assuming that the majority vote to leave one might imagine that the piggies not wanting to have their trough taken from them would count as being undemocratic.... I think however that this really has become possibly the most contentious issues that I can recall (certainly on PH!) and the amount of resentment (and in some cases hatred) it has stirred up is quite frankly disturbing (TBH now I know how both the SNP supporters and opposition felt)

[Esseesse]

irocfan said:

Mario149 said:

irocfan said:

Mario149 said:

So how exactly would the EU, our arch nemesis it seems, stop us?

OK - poor choice of words... THE EU through its puppets might have been a better thing to say

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

So a majority of MPs who we voted in based on their politics would vote, wait for it, according to their politics? Shocking, truly shocking. The irony of course is that you would no doubt be happy to bulldoze over than part of our democracy while presumably as a Leave supporter you take issue with the perceived lack of democracy in the EU.

well the thing is that assuming that the majority vote to leave one might imagine that the piggies not wanting to have their trough taken from them would count as being undemocratic.... I think however that this really has become possibly the most contentious issues that I can recall (certainly on PH!) and the amount of resentment (and in some cases hatred) it has stirred up is quite frankly disturbing (TBH now I know how both the SNP supporters and opposition felt)

That's because Britain's membership (or not) of the EU really really matters. I would agree with Mario really - we know referendums are not binding in the UK, they're basically unconstitutional. If we leave following a leave vote it won't really be the right way.

[Mario149]

Esseesse said:

irocfan said:

Mario149 said:

irocfan said:

Mario149 said:

So how exactly would the EU, our arch nemesis it seems, stop us?

OK - poor choice of words... THE EU through its puppets might have been a better thing to say

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

So a majority of MPs who we voted in based on their politics would vote, wait for it, according to their politics? Shocking, truly shocking. The irony of course is that you would no doubt be happy to bulldoze over than part of our democracy while presumably as a Leave supporter you take issue with the perceived lack of democracy in the EU.

well the thing is that assuming that the majority vote to leave one might imagine that the piggies not wanting to have their trough taken from them would count as being undemocratic.... I think however that this really has become possibly the most contentious issues that I can recall (certainly on PH!) and the amount of resentment (and in some cases hatred) it has stirred up is quite frankly disturbing (TBH now I know how both the SNP supporters and opposition felt)

That's because Britain's membership (or not) of the EU really really matters. I would agree with Mario really - we know referendums are not binding in the UK, they're basically unconstitutional. If we leave following a leave vote it won't really be the right way.

Agreed. I can see why we're having a referendum, but in general there's a very good reason for not letting the public make decisions such as this as by and large the average person is not equipped with the knowledge to come to a sensible answer. A referendum to gauge public mood or force something to be debated in parliament (a bit like the petitions we now have) and a decision taken there - that I can get on board with. But something as serious as forcing politicians to take us out of the EU with permanent ramifications that cannot be "rectified" in the next GE? No.

[Murph7355]

If a vote for Leave happens, it makes sense to let parliament sort the details out thereafter. This is what we're voting for primarily IMO after all (this is the way we self govern). To a point.

I suspect, however, that the Remain/Leave split of MPs will count for nothing if Leave is voted for. There will be different factions appearing. I imagine Corbyn will change his tune (again) and have a strong view on some topics for example.

Equally there are some aspects to the referendum that the government will need to tread very, very carefully with. Immigration being a key one for better or for worse.

I can't see playing fast and loose will be a good strategy.

[anonymous-user]

Brexit will definitely be bad for the employment figures. Dorries & similar disloyal turncoats will be down the job centre. They can afford to fire a few due to having no credible opposition..

[turbobloke]

Mario149 said:

Esseesse said:

irocfan said:

Mario149 said:

irocfan said:

Mario149 said:

So how exactly would the EU, our arch nemesis it seems, stop us?

OK - poor choice of words... THE EU through its puppets might have been a better thing to say

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

So a majority of MPs who we voted in based on their politics would vote, wait for it, according to their politics? Shocking, truly shocking. The irony of course is that you would no doubt be happy to bulldoze over than part of our democracy while presumably as a Leave supporter you take issue with the perceived lack of democracy in the EU.

well the thing is that assuming that the majority vote to leave one might imagine that the piggies not wanting to have their trough taken from them would count as being undemocratic.... I think however that this really has become possibly the most contentious issues that I can recall (certainly on PH!) and the amount of resentment (and in some cases hatred) it has stirred up is quite frankly disturbing (TBH now I know how both the SNP supporters and opposition felt)

That's because Britain's membership (or not) of the EU really really matters. I would agree with Mario really - we know referendums are not binding in the UK, they're basically unconstitutional. If we leave following a leave vote it won't really be the right way.

Agreed. I can see why we're having a referendum, but in general there's a very good reason for not letting the public make decisions such as this as by and large the average person is not equipped with the knowledge to come to a sensible answer.

Joe and Jo Public might even be the worst people to decide, if only politicians didn't occupy that slot already.

Take a look at what CMD has said throughout the Remain campaign, totally barking, and the disinformation in George's dodgy dossier.

[turbobloke]

Not forgetting Corbyn's U-turn after years of euroscepticism. He voted against the EEC in 1975 and against Maastricht which converted the EEC into the EU.

One comment says it all: 'No-one really believes his private opinion has changed.'

Maybe he had a dream and saw his name plate on the door of Kinnock's old office, ready for when he loses the 2020 general election and takes his place at the trough.

If he gets that far.

Osborne is doing his boss's bidding while awaiting a shoo-in to the PM's job. The PM is acting crazy enough to make people think he's worried more about his legacy than the future of the UK.

Self-interest and Party interest, that's the political problem and why the electorate is far better placed to decide (though referenda aren't binding as myself and others have pointed out).

The result is still in the balance - that said, the problem for Remain isn't that the public doesn't understand, the problem is that they/we understand only too well.

[irocfan]

Mario149 said:

Agreed. I can see why we're having a referendum, but in general there's a very good reason for not letting the public make decisions such as this as by and large the average person is not equipped with the knowledge to come to a sensible answer.

and you think that MP's are? Mhairi Black is better placed than you to decide what is best for the country? TBH chap your sentence above strikes me as being exactly what dictators tell themselves...

[BlackLabel]

Pot, kettle, black.

David Cameron has launched an extraordinary attack on his cabinet colleagues Michael Gove and Boris Johnson accusing them of telling “total untruths” to "con" the public into voting to leave. Amid signs of deep concern in the Remain camp that momentum is gathering behind a vote to leave, Mr Cameron ripped up his “self-denying ordinance” not to attack fellow Tories to accuse his colleagues of “peddling nonsense”.