Canadian Soldier Shot in Ottawa

[petemurphy]

XJ Flyer said:

In this case we 'began' in 1943 with the design of the Centurion and so far leading up to the Challenger 2.What's being planned now is a retrograde return to where we were before the Comet let alone the Centurion.All to save a few bob because the economy is sinking owing to the failed experiment of the global free market economy.

when did we last use a tank? if it gets to the needing a tank stage cant we just use air power?

[XJ Flyer]

RemyMartin said:

Hats off to the Canadian forces. Didn't fanny around with putting down said terrorist.

Let's just say that surrendering while referring to his human rights probably wouldn't have saved him.

[XJ Flyer]

petemurphy said:

XJ Flyer said:

In this case we 'began' in 1943 with the design of the Centurion and so far leading up to the Challenger 2.What's being planned now is a retrograde return to where we were before the Comet let alone the Centurion.All to save a few bob because the economy is sinking owing to the failed experiment of the global free market economy.

when did we last use a tank? if it gets to the needing a tank stage cant we just use air power?

Gulf Wars 1 and 2.Let alone if the government decide to keep picking fights with the Russians.In which case fair enough then you obviously won't mind if unlike those Sherman crews in WW2 the poor mugs expected to go up against T90's with an armoured car armed with a pea shooter will just say no thanks send in the planes and we'll get back to playing cards and don't blame us for all the money you wasted on 'tanks' that you could have spent on more hellfire missiles instead.

[MikeGTi]

XJ Flyer said:

In this case we 'began' in 1943 with the design of the Centurion and so far leading up to the Challenger 2.What's being planned now is a retrograde return to where we were before the Comet let alone the Centurion.All to save a few bob because the economy is sinking owing to the failed experiment of the global free market economy.

Err.. Scout won't replace CR2. Scout will replace the CVRT series of vehicles. The replacement of which has been in the pipeline for some time.

[anonymous-user]

Jimbeaux said:

Silent1 said:

Jimbeaux said:

Breadvan72 said:

Petemate said:

I am convinced that we need our own Guantanamo in the UK.

Hey, let's combat nutters who support tyranny and oppose the rule of law by, er... imposing tyranny and abandoning the rule of law. Top Plan!

Sadly, it is often neccessary to outplay one at one's own game and by their rules.

Except that we're supposed to be better than them and either declare them POWs or atleast follow the rule of law and charge or release them, not hold them for indefinite periods even after they've been "cleared for release" or realise that it's likely to recruit far more people than will ever be held there

And you believe that will make them hate us less? No, that simply turns them loose so they can hit us again. Wake up, this is war and you have to decide if you want to win or roll over let them have their way. It is barbaric, dirty, and not in line with the way we conduct our live within our Polus. These people are not in our Polus, they are trying to destroy it, therefore we fight the game they layed out and by their rules. We protect our Polus in any way possible so that we can go back inside and resume living the way we believe is proper and civilized. If you believe treating these assholes justly, gently, and with progressive ideas and philosophies will "bring them around", then you have already been defeated.

What's a "Polus"? Perhaps you meant a "Polis".

The Nazis weren't part of our Polis,and posed a far greater threat to us than the Islamists do, but we didn't abandon our rules to defeat the Nazis.

The incident in Canada is terrible, but it remains the case that, signal outrages such as 9/11 apart, in the West you tend to stand more chance of being killed by the weather than by terrorists. In other words, we should take the threat seriously but we shouldn't panic.

The notion suggested above that we should arm the EDL to control Islamist terrorists, if meant seriously [insert Joker meme], probably wins the Nobel price for Crackpot Schemes for the next ten years.

[XJ Flyer]

Jimbeaux said:

And you believe that will make them hate us less? No, that simply turns them loose so they can hit us again. Wake up, this is war and you have to decide if you want to win or roll over let them have their way. It is barbaric, dirty, and not in line with the way we conduct our live within our Polus. These people are not in our Polus, they are trying to destroy it, therefore we fight the game they layed out and by their rules. We protect our Polus in any way possible so that we can go back inside and resume living the way we believe is proper and civilized. If you believe treating these assholes justly, gently, and with progressive ideas and philosophies will "bring them around", then you have already been defeated.

^ This.

[XJ Flyer]

MikeGTi said:

XJ Flyer said:

In this case we 'began' in 1943 with the design of the Centurion and so far leading up to the Challenger 2.What's being planned now is a retrograde return to where we were before the Comet let alone the Centurion.All to save a few bob because the economy is sinking owing to the failed experiment of the global free market economy.

Err.. Scout won't replace CR2. Scout will replace the CVRT series of vehicles. The replacement of which has been in the pipeline for some time.

The relevant bit being that production of MBT's has stopped in favour of spending less on a force of lighter 'tanks'.So excactly what is the replacement for the Challenger 2 in the MBT role and in what possible way can it be better.

[MikeGTi]

XJ Flyer said:

The relevant bit being that production of MBT's has stopped in favour of spending less on a force of lighter 'tanks'.So excactly what is the replacement for the Challenger 2 in the MBT role and in what possible way can it be better.

There is no replacement for CR2 in the MBT role because CR2 still fulfills the requirement.

[XJ Flyer]

Breadvan72 said:

What's a "Polus"? Perhaps you meant a "Polis".

The Nazis weren't part of our Polis,and posed a far greater threat to us than the Islamists do, but we didn't abandon our rules to defeat the Nazis.

The incident in Canada is terrible, but it remains the case that, signal outrages such as 9/11 apart, in the West you tend to stand more chance of being killed by the weather than by terrorists. In other words, we should take the threat seriously but we shouldn't panic.

The notion suggested above that we should arm the EDL to control Islamist terrorists, if meant seriously [insert Joker meme], probably wins the Nobel price for Crackpot Schemes for the next ten years.

I didn't say we 'should' arm the EDL.What I actually said is that we haven't yet seen the type of sustained series of spectaculars which IS would obviously 'like' to carry out.'If' they thought that doing so wouldn't be counterproductive in the form of an inevitable change in the rules to opposition against them in the form of opposing paramilitary groups 'like' an armed EDL 'for example'.Which really would be the only effective way to defeat such a threat and at which point,trust me,would have widespread public support.

[XJ Flyer]

MikeGTi said:

XJ Flyer said:

The relevant bit being that production of MBT's has stopped in favour of spending less on a force of lighter 'tanks'.So excactly what is the replacement for the Challenger 2 in the MBT role and in what possible way can it be better.

There is no replacement for CR2 in the MBT role because CR2 still fulfills the requirement.

How can the ceasing of production of the Challenger 2 while spending billions on a light tank armament programme being anything other than a replacement of the MBT role with the light tank one.

[Mojocvh]

There we go that's straightened that out, now can we get back on topic?

[Jimbeaux]

Breadvan72 said:

Jimbeaux said:

Silent1 said:

Jimbeaux said:

Breadvan72 said:

Petemate said:

I am convinced that we need our own Guantanamo in the UK.

Hey, let's combat nutters who support tyranny and oppose the rule of law by, er... imposing tyranny and abandoning the rule of law. Top Plan!

Sadly, it is often neccessary to outplay one at one's own game and by their rules.

Except that we're supposed to be better than them and either declare them POWs or atleast follow the rule of law and charge or release them, not hold them for indefinite periods even after they've been "cleared for release" or realise that it's likely to recruit far more people than will ever be held there

And you believe that will make them hate us less? No, that simply turns them loose so they can hit us again. Wake up, this is war and you have to decide if you want to win or roll over let them have their way. It is barbaric, dirty, and not in line with the way we conduct our live within our Polus. These people are not in our Polus, they are trying to destroy it, therefore we fight the game they layed out and by their rules. We protect our Polus in any way possible so that we can go back inside and resume living the way we believe is proper and civilized. If you believe treating these assholes justly, gently, and with progressive ideas and philosophies will "bring them around", then you have already been defeated.

What's a "Polus"? Perhaps you meant a "Polis".

The Nazis weren't part of our Polis,and posed a far greater threat to us than the Islamists do, but we didn't abandon our rules to defeat the Nazis.

The incident in Canada is terrible, but it remains the case that, signal outrages such as 9/11 apart, in the West you tend to stand more chance of being killed by the weather than by terrorists. In other words, we should take the threat seriously but we shouldn't panic.

The notion suggested above that we should arm the EDL to control Islamist terrorists, if meant seriously [insert Joker meme], probably wins the Nobel price for Crackpot Schemes for the next ten years.

I gave no comment or support to the EDL idea another poster put forward; nothing to do with me.

The German Army more or less followed the rules of war generally accepted by the western civilizations. Prisoners were kept and cared for as opposed to being shot on site, etc (the SS being the exception). The Nazis leadership or SS arm did not; however, their policies were represented on the main part by the German military, which was no more Nazi than you or I but rather a professional military fighting for their country (right or wrong).

The Germans had much in common with our Polis while these Muslim extremists were are facing now do not. So I say again, we may be forced to step out of our "zone", fight an enemy on terms and conditions that he chose, so that we may make it safe to return to our "zone" and live by the principles we have chosen.

I feel certain that the generation that made your safe and comfortable life possible would not even be having this discussion, it would be understood without a word said. Thanks for the spelling lesson btw, but I believe it more significant that I understood the concept of Polis to begin with than got the spelling correct (which you probably noticed when you Googled the word to begin with).

Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 23 October 15:24

[MikeGTi]

XJ Flyer said:

How can the ceasing of production of the Challenger 2 while spending billions on a light tank armament programme being anything other than a replacement of the MBT role with the light tank one.

Because as you've just stated, they're seperate roles.

There are enough CR2 available to equip CR2 units (more than enough now, in fact). CVR(T) is due for replacement and so is being replaced.

It's really not a difficult concept.

[Four Litre]

Eclassy said:

Hooli said:

TLandCruiser said:

Four Litre said:

I for one am done with Islam

I cant personally do much about it but, finanically I wont go near any shop that is Halal (Pizza express included!) or use any business that is Islamic owned.

Yes it may be petty, my loss etc etc but Ive really had enough. Its my personal choice.

So am I and I have been doing the same for some time now.

Very common with a lot of people I know too, including myself.


As for whoever said we need our own Gutanemo, wasn't that why we invented stain when we spilt it off from India?

Big shame, very petty and extremely counter productive.

I'd like to think you three are reasonable people and if you have altered your perception of every muslim because of the actions a tiny but violent minority (who do not represent muslims) then the terrorists have achieved their aim.

I hope you also boycotted all Catholic owned establishments and the BBC when news of peadophilia by some in these establishments broke.

While you are carrying out your boycott ensure you do not get treated by a muslim doctor, take a train/cab/bus driven by a muslim e.t.c.

Quite right, I dont as a matter of course. Its a shame but I've lost all trust, nothing else to add.

As per you BBC analogy, your totally within your rights and not for me to question.

Im all for people believing their own fairy stories, however when it goes beyond say 9-10 years old it starts to get a bit concerning, makes me question their judgment.

When they are blowing things up, cutting off heads, stoning women to death, raping etc etc on a daily basis, kind of puts me off.

[XJ Flyer]

Jimbeaux said:

I gave no comment or support to the EDL idea another poster put forward; nothing to do with me.

The German Army more or less followed the rules of war generally accepted by the western civilizations. Prisoners were kept and cared for as opposed to being shot on site, etc (the SS being the exception). The Nazis leadership or SS arm did not; however, their policies were represented on the main part by the German military, which was no more Nazi than you or I but rather a professional military fighting for their country (right or wrong).

The Germans had much in common with our Polis while these Mulim extremists were are facing now do not. So I say again, we may be forced to step out of our "zone", fight an enemy on terms and conditions that he chose, so that we may make it safe to return to our "zone" and live by the principles we have chosen.

I feel certain that the generation that made your safe and comfortable life possible would not even be having this discussion, it would be understood without a word said. Thanks for the spelling lesson btw, but I believe it more significant that I understood the concept of Polis to begin with than got the spelling correct (which you probably noticed when you Googled the word to begin with).

Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 23 October 15:23

I think the correct conclusion in this case is that it would take a paramilitary group that isn't fighting by any rules to defeat another paramilitary group that isn't fighting by any rules.

[XJ Flyer]

MikeGTi said:

XJ Flyer said:

How can the ceasing of production of the Challenger 2 while spending billions on a light tank armament programme being anything other than a replacement of the MBT role with the light tank one.

Because as you've just stated, they're seperate roles.

There are enough CR2 available to equip CR2 units (more than enough now, in fact). CVR(T) is due for replacement and so is being replaced.

It's really not a difficult concept.

The fact is there is enough evidence out there to show that what's 'actually' happening is the future 'removal' of our MBT role capability to just be replaced by the light tank role.Removal in this case doesn't get more removed than 'stopping production' of Challenger 2 MBT's in favour of spending billions on a light tank armament programme.All to save money.

[Jimbeaux]

XJ Flyer said:

Jimbeaux said:

I gave no comment or support to the EDL idea another poster put forward; nothing to do with me.

The German Army more or less followed the rules of war generally accepted by the western civilizations. Prisoners were kept and cared for as opposed to being shot on site, etc (the SS being the exception). The Nazis leadership or SS arm did not; however, their policies were represented on the main part by the German military, which was no more Nazi than you or I but rather a professional military fighting for their country (right or wrong).

The Germans had much in common with our Polis while these Mulim extremists were are facing now do not. So I say again, we may be forced to step out of our "zone", fight an enemy on terms and conditions that he chose, so that we may make it safe to return to our "zone" and live by the principles we have chosen.

I feel certain that the generation that made your safe and comfortable life possible would not even be having this discussion, it would be understood without a word said. Thanks for the spelling lesson btw, but I believe it more significant that I understood the concept of Polis to begin with than got the spelling correct (which you probably noticed when you Googled the word to begin with).

Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 23 October 15:23

I think the correct conclusion in this case is that it would take a paramilitary group that isn't fighting by any rules to defeat another paramilitary group that isn't fighting by any rules.

"Taking the gloves off" does not mean we void all rules, it does mean that political and PC restaints are discarded in favor of victory. We can defeat them without crucifying, beheading, or ramming crucifixes through their throats. Special forces combined with light mechanized infantry along with tactical air support (Apaches & A-10s) would do nicely if combined with local fighters' ground intelligence. Understand the Middle Eastern mentality, they go with winners. If they see ISIS being defeated and humiliated, this does not breed more recruits (except for deluded western idiots that go there), it shows them as beaten and therefore, not worth joining. Take the "sexiness" and "rockstar" aura away and the pawns will drop off. For every true dumbass who really want to blow himself up for Allah, there are five more who really just want to plunder treasure, rape people, like to kill, enjoy power, etc. Those will not hang about if none of that is available.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 23 October 15:41

[MikeGTi]

XJ Flyer said:

The fact is there is enough evidence out there to show that what's 'actually' happening is the future 'removal' of our MBT role capability to just be replaced by the light tank role.Removal in this case doesn't get more removed than 'stopping production' of Challenger 2 MBT's in favour of spending billions on a light tank armament programme.All to save money.

Source? I don't remember reading anywhere about us losing our MBT capability.

[PRTVR]

Jimbeaux said:

XJ Flyer said:

Jimbeaux said:

I gave no comment or support to the EDL idea another poster put forward; nothing to do with me.

The German Army more or less followed the rules of war generally accepted by the western civilizations. Prisoners were kept and cared for as opposed to being shot on site, etc (the SS being the exception). The Nazis leadership or SS arm did not; however, their policies were represented on the main part by the German military, which was no more Nazi than you or I but rather a professional military fighting for their country (right or wrong).

The Germans had much in common with our Polis while these Mulim extremists were are facing now do not. So I say again, we may be forced to step out of our "zone", fight an enemy on terms and conditions that he chose, so that we may make it safe to return to our "zone" and live by the principles we have chosen.

I feel certain that the generation that made your safe and comfortable life possible would not even be having this discussion, it would be understood without a word said. Thanks for the spelling lesson btw, but I believe it more significant that I understood the concept of Polis to begin with than got the spelling correct (which you probably noticed when you Googled the word to begin with).

Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 23 October 15:23

I think the correct conclusion in this case is that it would take a paramilitary group that isn't fighting by any rules to defeat another paramilitary group that isn't fighting by any rules.

"Taking the gloves off" does not mean we void all rules, it does mean that political and PC restaints are discarded in favor of victory. We can defeat them without crucifying, beheading, or ramming crucifixes through their throats. Special forces combined with light mechanized infantry along with tactical air support (Apaches & A-10s) would do nicely if combined with local fighters' ground intelligence.

This is how I envisioned it would happen, along with no press present.
More a job for your marines?

[XJ Flyer]

Jimbeaux said:

XJ Flyer said:

Jimbeaux said:

I gave no comment or support to the EDL idea another poster put forward; nothing to do with me.

The German Army more or less followed the rules of war generally accepted by the western civilizations. Prisoners were kept and cared for as opposed to being shot on site, etc (the SS being the exception). The Nazis leadership or SS arm did not; however, their policies were represented on the main part by the German military, which was no more Nazi than you or I but rather a professional military fighting for their country (right or wrong).

The Germans had much in common with our Polis while these Mulim extremists were are facing now do not. So I say again, we may be forced to step out of our "zone", fight an enemy on terms and conditions that he chose, so that we may make it safe to return to our "zone" and live by the principles we have chosen.

I feel certain that the generation that made your safe and comfortable life possible would not even be having this discussion, it would be understood without a word said. Thanks for the spelling lesson btw, but I believe it more significant that I understood the concept of Polis to begin with than got the spelling correct (which you probably noticed when you Googled the word to begin with).

Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 23 October 15:23

I think the correct conclusion in this case is that it would take a paramilitary group that isn't fighting by any rules to defeat another paramilitary group that isn't fighting by any rules.

Special forces combined with light mechanized infantry along with tactical air support (Apaches & A-10s) would do nicely if combined with local fighters' ground intelligence.

Apaches and drones firing Hellfire missiles and light tanks aren't going to be any good in dealing with a domestic threat from our own immigrant populations.The issue of it being a dirty no hold barred confrontation then inevitably descends into tit for tat actions by paramilitary groups working without government control or knowledge.

In this case the issue of tit for tat taking on new meaning assuming an environment of indiscriminate mass casualty spectaculars with no warning.Which as I've said probably explains the real fears of the western governments and the relatively lower level and seemingly more restrained and selective actions undertaken by the IS lot since 9/11 and 7/7.