Facebook pay no Corporation Tax AGAIN
Discussion
CamMoreRon said:
My degree was in flange management
Is this your wife?http://www.break.com/video/judge-judy-destroys-mot...
waterwonder said:
NicD said:
seems pretty simple - manufacturing from raw materials (or do you need a definition of this also) versus assembly of already manufactured components.
In fact, as mentioned above the important metric is perhaps, the number of people employed locally plus value of taxable UK income declared.
In fact, as mentioned above the important metric is perhaps, the number of people employed locally plus value of taxable UK income declared.
No need to define raw materials unless you want to be pointlessly pedantic about that also.
CamMoreRon said:
Manufacturing by robot, assembly by robot, supervision by (very small amount of) people.
Not sure I agree, a volume car plant employes about 4000 people as a massive approximation. Granted less than it used to however the world moves on.If we are assembling cars here then you need suppliers, who also employee people and pay tax and so on.
It all comes back to the same point. As a country the UK has relatively low taxes, a key reason for this is to attract investment.
All this crap about multi-nationals where whining British politicians carp on about how they pay no UK tax.
They do pay tax. Often in the US. just not to HMRC.
Where they can pay tax in a lower tax environment, like the Netherlands or Ireland, can you blame them for doing so?
If the carping whiny-arsed hand wringing lying thieving MPs want the multi-nationals' money they can do two things about it:
COMPETE for their tax by running a low tax regime multi-nationals WANT to pay tax in rather than some other country.
CHANGE THE LAW so they have to pay more tax here
b
hing about companies following the letter of the law strikes me as completely fking dumb when you have the power to change laws in your favour. There is no suggestion that Facebook or Google have acted illegally in any way.
Bah.
They do pay tax. Often in the US. just not to HMRC.
Where they can pay tax in a lower tax environment, like the Netherlands or Ireland, can you blame them for doing so?
If the carping whiny-arsed hand wringing lying thieving MPs want the multi-nationals' money they can do two things about it:
COMPETE for their tax by running a low tax regime multi-nationals WANT to pay tax in rather than some other country.
CHANGE THE LAW so they have to pay more tax here
b
hing about companies following the letter of the law strikes me as completely fking dumb when you have the power to change laws in your favour. There is no suggestion that Facebook or Google have acted illegally in any way.Bah.
Don said:
All this crap about multi-nationals where whining British politicians carp on about how they pay no UK tax.
They do pay tax. Often in the US. just not to HMRC.
Where they can pay tax in a lower tax environment, like the Netherlands or Ireland, can you blame them for doing so?
If the carping whiny-arsed hand wringing lying thieving MPs want the multi-nationals' money they can do two things about it:
COMPETE for their tax by running a low tax regime multi-nationals WANT to pay tax in rather than some other country.
CHANGE THE LAW so they have to pay more tax here
bhing about companies following the letter of the law strikes me as completely fking dumb when you have the power to change laws in your favour. There is no suggestion that Facebook or Google have acted illegally in any way.
Bah.
While I agree with some of this, you are missing the pointThey do pay tax. Often in the US. just not to HMRC.
Where they can pay tax in a lower tax environment, like the Netherlands or Ireland, can you blame them for doing so?
If the carping whiny-arsed hand wringing lying thieving MPs want the multi-nationals' money they can do two things about it:
COMPETE for their tax by running a low tax regime multi-nationals WANT to pay tax in rather than some other country.
CHANGE THE LAW so they have to pay more tax here
b
hing about companies following the letter of the law strikes me as completely fking dumb when you have the power to change laws in your favour. There is no suggestion that Facebook or Google have acted illegally in any way.Bah.
WE as customers or voters are entitled to feel f
ked off by the antics of these multinational corporations and tax haven countries, no matter that it is 'only' a moral rather than legal crime.And yes, I am disgusted by the 'pork barrel' way our arcane tax laws and rules have evolved, though I am strongly for low taxes and small government.
I am NOT in favour of low tax for the unscrupulous and high tax for the middle workers
NicD said:
Don said:
All this crap about multi-nationals where whining British politicians carp on about how they pay no UK tax.
They do pay tax. Often in the US. just not to HMRC.
Where they can pay tax in a lower tax environment, like the Netherlands or Ireland, can you blame them for doing so?
If the carping whiny-arsed hand wringing lying thieving MPs want the multi-nationals' money they can do two things about it:
COMPETE for their tax by running a low tax regime multi-nationals WANT to pay tax in rather than some other country.
CHANGE THE LAW so they have to pay more tax here
bhing about companies following the letter of the law strikes me as completely fking dumb when you have the power to change laws in your favour. There is no suggestion that Facebook or Google have acted illegally in any way.
Bah.
While I agree with some of this, you are missing the pointThey do pay tax. Often in the US. just not to HMRC.
Where they can pay tax in a lower tax environment, like the Netherlands or Ireland, can you blame them for doing so?
If the carping whiny-arsed hand wringing lying thieving MPs want the multi-nationals' money they can do two things about it:
COMPETE for their tax by running a low tax regime multi-nationals WANT to pay tax in rather than some other country.
CHANGE THE LAW so they have to pay more tax here
b
hing about companies following the letter of the law strikes me as completely fking dumb when you have the power to change laws in your favour. There is no suggestion that Facebook or Google have acted illegally in any way.Bah.
WE as customers or voters are entitled to feel f
ked off by the antics of these multinational corporations and tax haven countries, no matter that it is 'only' a moral rather than legal crime.Certainly anyone can hold whatever opinion they wish but when a multinational that can operate anywhere locates some of its business in a particular country, the appropriate reaction is gratitude. If a business owner can run their business e.g. a web-based business from anywhere, that's what they'll do. As Don said we should be competing for their presence and then their tax by running a low tax regime multi-nationals want to pay tax in rather than some other country, and be pleased when they locate part of their enterprise here.
Both Google and Facebook and all the other multinationals that operate here do pay UK taxes.
They pay some VAT. Its a sales tax and not based on profits. So they can't avoid it.
Their employees who work in the UK pay UK income tax. They can't avoid it.
Their employees who have jobs and, perhaps, would not otherwise are paying taxes HMRC would not otherwise get.
They have to pay business rates on premises whether they rent or buy. They can't avoid it.
So the thing they're not paying is corporation tax. Because that is tax on profit declared in the UK.
They have legal means by which to declare profit in any of the countries they operate in. Is it any wonder they choose the cheaper tax regimes in which to declare profit? Not at all. It's what any rational, thinking person or corporate manager would do.
Tax is not charity. It's tax. You have a moral obligation to pay the exact amount due under the law. Not a penny more or less. And the whiny arsed MPs cheesed off about it have all the moral high ground of Al Capone.
They pay some VAT. Its a sales tax and not based on profits. So they can't avoid it.
Their employees who work in the UK pay UK income tax. They can't avoid it.
Their employees who have jobs and, perhaps, would not otherwise are paying taxes HMRC would not otherwise get.
They have to pay business rates on premises whether they rent or buy. They can't avoid it.
So the thing they're not paying is corporation tax. Because that is tax on profit declared in the UK.
They have legal means by which to declare profit in any of the countries they operate in. Is it any wonder they choose the cheaper tax regimes in which to declare profit? Not at all. It's what any rational, thinking person or corporate manager would do.
Tax is not charity. It's tax. You have a moral obligation to pay the exact amount due under the law. Not a penny more or less. And the whiny arsed MPs cheesed off about it have all the moral high ground of Al Capone.
Don said:
So the thing they're not paying is corporation tax. Because that is tax on profit declared in the UK. They have legal means by which to declare profit in any of the countries they operate in. Is it any wonder they choose the cheaper tax regimes in which to declare profit? Not at all. It's what any rational, thinking person or corporate manager would do.
When you mentioned the position of a rational thinking person, this comment from Guido's blog came to mind.MisterNed said:
We already know that labour voters do not inhabit rational, fact based reality at all, but in an emotion based fantasy world made up of whatever the hell they want to believe in at the time.
Don said:
You have a moral obligation to pay the exact amount due under the law. Not a penny more or less.
Some may see it like that, but all have a legal obligation 
Don said:
And the whiny arsed MPs cheesed off about it have all the moral high ground of Al Capone.
Margaret Hodge and Al Capone, an interesting comparison.
sidicks said:
BGARK said:
CamMoreRon said:
If you want to talk engineering
What type of engineering are you involved in?
Not quite as handy as this, mind..
turbobloke said:
NicD said:
Don said:
All this crap about multi-nationals where whining British politicians carp on about how they pay no UK tax.
They do pay tax. Often in the US. just not to HMRC.
Where they can pay tax in a lower tax environment, like the Netherlands or Ireland, can you blame them for doing so?
If the carping whiny-arsed hand wringing lying thieving MPs want the multi-nationals' money they can do two things about it:
COMPETE for their tax by running a low tax regime multi-nationals WANT to pay tax in rather than some other country.
CHANGE THE LAW so they have to pay more tax here
bhing about companies following the letter of the law strikes me as completely fking dumb when you have the power to change laws in your favour. There is no suggestion that Facebook or Google have acted illegally in any way.
Bah.
While I agree with some of this, you are missing the pointThey do pay tax. Often in the US. just not to HMRC.
Where they can pay tax in a lower tax environment, like the Netherlands or Ireland, can you blame them for doing so?
If the carping whiny-arsed hand wringing lying thieving MPs want the multi-nationals' money they can do two things about it:
COMPETE for their tax by running a low tax regime multi-nationals WANT to pay tax in rather than some other country.
CHANGE THE LAW so they have to pay more tax here
b
hing about companies following the letter of the law strikes me as completely fking dumb when you have the power to change laws in your favour. There is no suggestion that Facebook or Google have acted illegally in any way.Bah.
WE as customers or voters are entitled to feel f
ked off by the antics of these multinational corporations and tax haven countries, no matter that it is 'only' a moral rather than legal crime.Certainly anyone can hold whatever opinion they wish but when a multinational that can operate anywhere locates some of its business in a particular country, the appropriate reaction is gratitude. If a business owner can run their business e.g. a web-based business from anywhere, that's what they'll do. As Don said we should be competing for their presence and then their tax by running a low tax regime multi-nationals want to pay tax in rather than some other country, and be pleased when they locate part of their enterprise here.
You can say this is a great thing if you like, but if extended to the whole economy, the results would be disastrous.
All companies that earn profit here should pay the appropriate tax here. That does not happen with these spiv multinats that employ transfer pricing and double Irish or double Luxembourg or double Netherlands or whatever to shield the true profit.
As I said,our crooked and stupid rulers allow this to happen, but it doesn't make it right.
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