Done Better than Expected - That will be £1.7bn then - WTF!

[retrorider]

Puggit said:

Let's not forget the deficit - which is exactly what the EU sums did!

Our economy is not doing well - we owe st loads of money to everyone. It's all smoke and mirrors.

The deficit is small beer.Think about the £1.4+ trillion of national debt we've got to find...

[XJ Flyer]

Puggit said:

williamp said:

Mainland Europe have done this to get a rise from us. Odd, as in the grand scheme of things its not a lot of money, (labour blew 10bn on an abandoned it project for the nhs) but they obviously need it.

So Don't fall for it. Call their bluff. Be like the harry enfield loads a money character. Prove to them how good this country is compared to them.

Pull a blank cheque from your shirt pocket, sign it and hand it over. Look how rich we are..


..in fact. Make the cheque out for More. Then ask for the remainder back...if they can afford it...

Let's not forget the deficit - which is exactly what the EU sums did!

Our economy is not doing well - we owe st loads of money to everyone. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Exactly.The Cons make up a load of figures to show that the economy is 'recovering' and the EU says great we'll take some of that non existent money.

[simoid]

retrorider said:

Puggit said:

Let's not forget the deficit - which is exactly what the EU sums did!

Our economy is not doing well - we owe st loads of money to everyone. It's all smoke and mirrors.

The deficit is small beer.Think about the £1.4+ trillion of national debt we've got to find...

Perhaps we could pull a fast one on the Europeanises by taking measures to slash our national income, thereby ensuring we actually get paid to be in the EU!

[Du1point8]

Art0ir said:

Du1point8 said:

It looks like the rules means we don't have a choice.... If we don't pay it they are dumping 2.5% interest on it per month (yes you read that fking right)...

Amazing that if France had told them to eff off, they would have got away with it, but when it comes to the UK, they like to make an example out of them... every time.

Source?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11184760/David-Cameron-demands-emergency-talks-over-EU-budget-demand.html

Farage has already been quoted:

“Of course he will pay up," he said. "These are the rules, the contributions to the European Union was a very complex formula and part of it is a measurement of your GDP against everybody else’s. There’s nothing he can do."

Ed Balls has already claimed that the PM will have known about this for weeks and is just pretending to be surprised... Not surprised with his comment.

[Leithen]

The UK needs to have look at how the USA treats the UN's demands for money.

[steveT350C]

@David_Cameron: I'm angry at the sudden presentation of a €2bn bill to the UK by the EU. It's an appalling way to behave and I won't be paying it on Dec 1st

[tangerine_sedge]

DaveCWK said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Do people really think that there is a huge untapped global market that we are not exporting to? if so, why are busineses not already exporting their goods and services there now? I suggest it's because they are already trying and finding it incredibly difficult.

Isn't that because the EU restricts member states in setting up their own trade deals?

No, we have UK trade delgations to other countries. China & India for starters. If there was all this untapped trade just begging for our goods and services we'ed have hoovered it up by now.

DaveCWK said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Put simply, if we backed out of the EU, then certainly it would make trading with the EU more difficult, and the loss of trade wouldn't be replaced by trading to to other countries and regions overnight. Add to that, that some global companies would move some or all of their business from the UK into the EU, and you could quite quickly see an impact to the UK economy.

But the trade wouldn't be lost overnight, so wouldn't need to be immediatelty replaced. I don't think it would make any dfference at all really. We'd gradually buy a bit less from the EU than we currently do, they would buy a bit less from us, we'd set up a few trade deals, buy a bit more from and sell to other less insular areas of the world etc etc.

Not necessarily overnight, but there would be a shift. Take for example Toyota, they might choose to move production to mainland Europe over a 5 year period. Would people stop buying Toyotas? No, but this purchase would become an import. I doubt another car manufacturer would choose to set up a new factory in the UK when there are Millions of skilled, cheaper & unemployed people in mainland Europe.

You can criticise the EU for demanding this money, but the point is, that our economy is in a much better shape than the rest of Europe. This proves the point that (a) financial union is a mistake (thankgod we didn't join the Eurozone) and (b) the EU doesn't overly meddle in our commercial affairs.

DaveCWK said:

tangerine_sedge said:

The EU is certainly not perfect, but anyone who thinks that it will be a land of milk and honey as an independant nation will get a suprise.

I don't think anyone thinks it will be immediately, but long term I see it being the right thing. I see the EU in its current form being the one left behind in the global race. The only future appears to be full integration, US style, and I cannot see that ever happening without some serious pain. Personally I don't want it either.

Long term (20 years+), the UK economy *might* be better off, it could also be worse off. This is the same scenario as the Scottish referendum. Continue with a system which is not perfect but could be improved, or make a major change and hope the gamble will pay off?

Personally, I think the low risk solution is to push for further negotiation and remain in the EU.

Finally, whether you agree with me or not, you have to give me some credit for being able to keep the quotes in the correct order.

[XJ Flyer]

simoid said:

retrorider said:

Puggit said:

Let's not forget the deficit - which is exactly what the EU sums did!

Our economy is not doing well - we owe st loads of money to everyone. It's all smoke and mirrors.

The deficit is small beer.Think about the £1.4+ trillion of national debt we've got to find...

Perhaps we could pull a fast one on the Europeanises by taking measures to slash our national income, thereby ensuring we actually get paid to be in the EU!

Like borrow loads more money to spend on German goods which the Germans then have to pay for.Instead of the situation in which we borrow loads of money to buy German goods while pretending that its our own money so the Germans charge us twice to buy their stuff.

[XJ Flyer]

steveT350C said:

@David_Cameron: I'm angry at the sudden presentation of a €2bn bill to the UK by the EU. It's an appalling way to behave and I won't be paying it on Dec 1st

Which translates as you stupid Europeans.If you'd have charged us twice the amount but spread it over a longer period I could have sold that easier to the UK public than charging us half as much but wanting it all immediately.

[Soov535]

steveT350C said:

@David_Cameron: I'm angry at the sudden presentation of a €2bn bill to the UK by the EU. It's an appalling way to behave and I won't be paying it on Dec 1st

oooh get her.

Cameropn needs to grow a pair and pull us out. UKIP all the way now.

[XJ Flyer]

tangerine_sedge said:

DaveCWK said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Do people really think that there is a huge untapped global market that we are not exporting to? if so, why are busineses not already exporting their goods and services there now? I suggest it's because they are already trying and finding it incredibly difficult.

Isn't that because the EU restricts member states in setting up their own trade deals?

No, we have UK trade delgations to other countries. China & India for starters. If there was all this untapped trade just begging for our goods and services we'ed have hoovered it up by now.

DaveCWK said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Put simply, if we backed out of the EU, then certainly it would make trading with the EU more difficult, and the loss of trade wouldn't be replaced by trading to to other countries and regions overnight. Add to that, that some global companies would move some or all of their business from the UK into the EU, and you could quite quickly see an impact to the UK economy.

But the trade wouldn't be lost overnight, so wouldn't need to be immediatelty replaced. I don't think it would make any dfference at all really. We'd gradually buy a bit less from the EU than we currently do, they would buy a bit less from us, we'd set up a few trade deals, buy a bit more from and sell to other less insular areas of the world etc etc.

Not necessarily overnight, but there would be a shift. Take for example Toyota, they might choose to move production to mainland Europe over a 5 year period. Would people stop buying Toyotas? No, but this purchase would become an import. I doubt another car manufacturer would choose to set up a new factory in the UK when there are Millions of skilled, cheaper & unemployed people in mainland Europe.

You can criticise the EU for demanding this money, but the point is, that our economy is in a much better shape than the rest of Europe. This proves the point that (a) financial union is a mistake (thankgod we didn't join the Eurozone) and (b) the EU doesn't overly meddle in our commercial affairs.

DaveCWK said:

tangerine_sedge said:

The EU is certainly not perfect, but anyone who thinks that it will be a land of milk and honey as an independant nation will get a suprise.

I don't think anyone thinks it will be immediately, but long term I see it being the right thing. I see the EU in its current form being the one left behind in the global race. The only future appears to be full integration, US style, and I cannot see that ever happening without some serious pain. Personally I don't want it either.

Long term (20 years+), the UK economy *might* be better off, it could also be worse off. This is the same scenario as the Scottish referendum. Continue with a system which is not perfect but could be improved, or make a major change and hope the gamble will pay off?

Personally, I think the low risk solution is to push for further negotiation and remain in the EU.

Finally, whether you agree with me or not, you have to give me some credit for being able to keep the quotes in the correct order.

What's needed is for this country to start making things to satisfy its own demands using trade barriers and not be lumbered with a huge import bill to pay other countries to provide things for us in a trade deficit situation.In that regard staying in the global free market economy is as bad as staying in the EU.

[simoid]

XJ Flyer said:

Like borrow loads more money to spend on German goods which the Germans then have to pay for.Instead of the situation in which we borrow loads of money to buy German goods while pretending that its our own money so the Germans charge us twice to buy their stuff.

Yes! Or no. I'm not remotely sure you're making any sense. Or not. Aren't you?

[simoid]

XJ Flyer said:

What's needed is for this country to start making things to satisfy its own demands using trade barriers and not be lumbered with a huge import bill to pay other countries to provide things for us in a trade deficit situation.In that regard staying in the global free market economy is as bad as staying in the EU.

http://tutor2u.net/economics/revision-notes/as-markets-specialisation-trade.html

[Scuffers]

steveT350C said:

@David_Cameron: I'm angry at the sudden presentation of a €2bn bill to the UK by the EU. It's an appalling way to behave and I won't be paying it on Dec 1st

translation:

I'll be paying that one on the 2nd....

[simoid]

Scuffers said:

steveT350C said:

@David_Cameron: I'm angry at the sudden presentation of a €2bn bill to the UK by the EU. It's an appalling way to behave and I won't be paying it on Dec 1st

translation:

I'll be paying that one on the 2nd....

In all seriousness, don't we owe the money?

A bit like if we got our income wrong on our self-assessment because of a new way to calculate...?

[gruffalo]

World Population is 7.15Bn
UK population is 64m

I would rather we made stuff that sold to the 7Bn and we reaped the huge rewards that this would bring, we could import all we wanted then and still be in a trading surplus, just like China but without the communism.

[XJ Flyer]

simoid said:

XJ Flyer said:

Like borrow loads more money to spend on German goods which the Germans then have to pay for.Instead of the situation in which we borrow loads of money to buy German goods while pretending that its our own money so the Germans charge us twice to buy their stuff.

Yes! Or no. I'm not remotely sure you're making any sense. Or not. Aren't you?

I thought it was clear enough.Firstly we're in a trade deficit situation with Germany which we take on debt to pay for.Cameron pretends the debt is less than it actually is to show that we're 'recovering' to get himself elected.The EU says great then you can afford to pay the Germans even more for the privilege.

[Du1point8]

simoid said:

Scuffers said:

steveT350C said:

@David_Cameron: I'm angry at the sudden presentation of a €2bn bill to the UK by the EU. It's an appalling way to behave and I won't be paying it on Dec 1st

translation:

I'll be paying that one on the 2nd....

In all seriousness, don't we owe the money?

A bit like if we got our income wrong on our self-assessment because of a new way to calculate...?

Think you mean we got our income right and Gordon Brown decided we were not paying enough legally, decided to back dated it, closed some loopholes and open some more, resulting in large bill due asap.

(wonder which people had to put up with this one in the past?)

[simoid]

XJ Flyer said:

I thought it was clear enough.Firstly we're in a trade deficit situation with Germany which we take on debt to pay for.Cameron pretends the debt is less than it actually is to show that we're 'recovering' to get himself elected.The EU says great then you can afford to pay the Germans even more for the privilege.

As clear as mud to me I'm afraid.

So you think we should just cease all international trade?

[XJ Flyer]

gruffalo said:

World Population is 7.15Bn
UK population is 64m

I would rather we made stuff that sold to the 7Bn and we reaped the huge rewards that this would bring, we could import all we wanted then and still be in a trading surplus, just like China but without the communism.

You've missed the bit that most of that 7Bn can't afford to buy what we've got to sell.At least until we've given them the money to buy it with first.While most of those who can afford it can only do so because they didn't follow your ideas.IE Germany not China.While even at best your idea just turns us into a slave state working for everyone else in the world.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Friday 24th October 16:01