Done Better than Expected - That will be £1.7bn then - WTF!

[unrepentant]

You're all deluding yourselves if you think it won't be paid. You're signed up to the formula and the formula says you have to pay.

If you want to change this you have only one option. Everyone needs to join the Conservative party. Hear me out here because I can already see the frothing at the mouth brigade shouting NO!, JOIN UKIP. UKIP have no chance whatsover of winning a GE or power sharing.

Ok, so you all join your local Tory party. Then you threaten all your Tory MP's with deselection and replacement with an anti EU candidate unless they tell Cameron to "eff off" and hold an immediate referendum. If they refuse you move to deselect them. Once a few are deselected they will ALL move towards your viewpoint becuase these people care about one thing more than anything else - themselves.

You think this isn't possible? Very few people belong to the Conservative party, only about 134,000. It's tiny, especially when divided by 650 constituencies. Even big constituencies can't have more than a couple of thousand members. Should be relatively easy to do, especially as a decent percentage of party activists are already as anti EU as most PHers.

If you want an example look to the US. Loony right wing "Tea party" Republicans managed to remove numerous long standing Republican congressmen and senators who they thought were too soft by using exactly this method, by taking over local partys. Others then changed their tune pretty quickly when faced with the same thing and moved rapidly rightwards! If you lot want to exit the EU you need a vehicle and the only vehicle you have is the Conservative party. So stop debating it here and get on and take over your party!

[don4l]

Welshbeef said:

So you believe somehow our 63m customer base will stop buying EU goods and instead buy UK goods to such a level to counter the loss of 800m EU customers?

Its possible but (without knowing the numbers) sniff test it really doesn't pass go.

What a splendid post.

It is so full of "fail" that it is truely impressive.

On the one hand, there are only 500m people in the EU. So we could only lose 437m EU customers - not 800m.

On the other hand, we wouldn't lose a single customer. We would join the WTO( http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e...), and we would immediately have precisely the same trading relationship with the EU that we currently enjoy. In fact, trade with Europe would be simplified because we wouldn't have to exchange VAT numbers before buying or selling.

[Welshbeef]

7mike said:

What I can't get my head around is; if we left the EU you are saying no EU country will import goods from us.But, we will continue to import goods from them? Why wouldn't it work both ways?

Do you and others want to buy Mercs BMW Audi Ferrari Lambo Porsche lots will and even though we have Aston and Vauxhall they don't really compare do they...


Hard engineering
Think KONE, Otis, Schneider. Schindler, clevett these lot make closed protocal lifts escalators top end and best chillers UPS etc. So we will have to buy from them.

Wine? Sure English make cracking wine but we don't make the quantity to offset the EU
Cheese hmm we make good cheddar not Brie blue etc
White goods
- Bosch, Smeg,siemans,Miele, Beko, neff
Best leather - Italian
Best fashion - Italian
Really good beer - Belgium - though we have great ale and cider

Granite work tops/ceramic sinks in tops etc

Pork - we physically don't have anywhere near enough pigs to cater for our consumption


So no we couldn't just stop buying from them without huge consequences
If they stopped buying from us - which they wouldn't but the cost to buy from is would be higher so less competitive that's the key.

[don4l]

unrepentant said:

You're all deluding yourselves if you think it won't be paid. You're signed up to the formula and the formula says you have to pay.

If you want to change this you have only one option. Everyone needs to join the Conservative party. Hear me out here because I can already see the frothing at the mouth brigade shouting NO!, JOIN UKIP. UKIP have no chance whatsover of winning a GE or power sharing.

Ok, so you all join your local Tory party. Then you threaten all your Tory MP's with deselection and replacement with an anti EU candidate unless they tell Cameron to "eff off" and hold an immediate referendum. If they refuse you move to deselect them. Once a few are deselected they will ALL move towards your viewpoint becuase these people care about one thing more than anything else - themselves.

You think this isn't possible? Very few people belong to the Conservative party, only about 134,000. It's tiny, especially when divided by 650 constituencies. Even big constituencies can't have more than a couple of thousand members. Should be relatively easy to do, especially as a decent percentage of party activists are already as anti EU as most PHers.

If you want an example look to the US. Loony right wing "Tea party" Republicans managed to remove numerous long standing Republican congressmen and senators who they thought were too soft by using exactly this method, by taking over local partys. Others then changed their tune pretty quickly when faced with the same thing and moved rapidly rightwards! If you lot want to exit the EU you need a vehicle and the only vehicle you have is the Conservative party. So stop debating it here and get on and take over your party!

Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?

Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.

[Croutons]

Northern Munkee said:

when he said 10000 more midwives, 20000 nurses, 5000 doctors (or whatever it was) he says that he didn't specify which country they'd be employed, as in they'll be in France, Germany, etc

LOL!

[smegmore]

Welshbeef said:

<snip> Pork - we physically don't have anywhere near enough pigs to cater for our consumption <snip>

The way things are heading in this country, pork consumption will be dropping off steadily in the not so distant future so this will cease to be a problem.

[unrepentant]

don4l said:

Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?

Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.

Then you're always going to be backing a loser!

You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.

[Mojocvh]

unrepentant said:

don4l said:

Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?

Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.

Then you're always going to be backing a loser!

You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.

dream on.

[s2art]

unrepentant said:

Then you're always going to be backing a loser!

You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.

In large tracts of the North of England only UKIP stand a chance of displacing Labour, the Tories are dead there. What you should be advocating is that the Tories stop splitting the UKIP vote in those constituencies.

[jogon]

unrepentant said:

Then you're always going to be backing a loser!

You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.

Sounds all too similar to the EU position only problem is that Dave has been uncovered as the Europhile he is, the populous no longer believe a word he says or that he even has any bargaining power remaining. We really now only have a choice between UKIP and Labour as the Torys will produce the same outcome as voting for the latter.

[AJS-]

shred2bits said:

I'm just wondering what the headlines would be if we would've be liable to receive a rebate or whatever it's called and France and Germany refused to pay? Tbh it doesn't bother me as 2bn is probably nothing compared to what we spend on the wars we've been fighting for no reason. Didn't Cameron go and shout at other countries who didn't pay enough to stop Ebola?

Going off £1.8bn between 60 million people I make it £30 for every man, woman and child in the country. Since my wife and daughter don't work that's £90 from me. Without even considering who pays on behalf of the penaioners, public sector workers, benefit recipients and others who don't contribute, which at roughly 50% means £180. Glad if that's nothing to you but it would be useful to me. Mention me on a cheque.

[XJ Flyer]

REALIST123 said:

XJ Flyer said:

BoRED S2upid said:

steveT350C said:

@David_Cameron: I'm angry at the sudden presentation of a â?¬2bn bill to the UK by the EU. It's an appalling way to behave and I won't be paying it on Dec 1st

Won't be paying it full stop!

There is no way he can pay this. Germany and France get money back!

The reason he 'can't' pay it is because the economic 'recovery' is just a lie based on smoke and mirrors anyway.That won't stop him paying it by adding it to our borrowing requirement and making more cuts at home to keep his federalist cronies happy.

Really? So the GDP isn't rising? Unemployment isn't falling? Interest dates aren't at an historic low?

Let's hear your version of where we are then......

The Cons idea of GDP and unemployment figures are all just a rigged matter of smoke and mirrors.While there's nothing good about the very real issue of low interest rates in which people's savings are effectively being thieved as a form of benefits to subsidise mortgages and consumer spending in an environment of historic real terms low wage rates.

Hopefully the LabLibdemCons are about to be wiped out with the help of their own federalist cronies in the EU.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Friday 24th October 21:24

[XJ Flyer]

s2art said:

unrepentant said:

Then you're always going to be backing a loser!

You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.

In large tracts of the North of England only UKIP stand a chance of displacing Labour, the Tories are dead there. What you should be advocating is that the Tories stop splitting the UKIP vote in those constituencies.

The truth is the Cons would actually prefer to see their pro EU pro immigration allies in the form of Labour win out against UKIP.

[XJ Flyer]

Axionknight said:

I think this should be by voluntary public subscription. I saw a figure of £56 (IIRC) per tax payer - how about a public vote of confidence in the EU? If you think it's a good idea to pay up and believe the money will be put to good use, do so - if you don't, then don't!

I know which camp I'm in! Aaaahm oot!

^ This.If the EU supporters think the EU is such a good deal then let them pay for it all with an opt out of all EU based taxation for everyone else.The same applies in the case of the green taxes imposed by the global warmist cause.

[unrepentant]

s2art said:

unrepentant said:

Then you're always going to be backing a loser!

You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.

In large tracts of the North of England only UKIP stand a chance of displacing Labour, the Tories are dead there. What you should be advocating is that the Tories stop splitting the UKIP vote in those constituencies.

No, in large tracts of Northern England nobody is going to displace Labour. In large tracts of Southern England nobody is going to displace the Tories. Your only chance of getting out of the EU is to move the Tory party to your position and it's not a problam if you control the grass roots of each local constituency party. Think big, act local, the Tea Party nutters have shown you how to do it.

[XJ Flyer]

don4l said:

unrepentant said:

You're all deluding yourselves if you think it won't be paid. You're signed up to the formula and the formula says you have to pay.

If you want to change this you have only one option. Everyone needs to join the Conservative party. Hear me out here because I can already see the frothing at the mouth brigade shouting NO!, JOIN UKIP. UKIP have no chance whatsover of winning a GE or power sharing.

Ok, so you all join your local Tory party. Then you threaten all your Tory MP's with deselection and replacement with an anti EU candidate unless they tell Cameron to "eff off" and hold an immediate referendum. If they refuse you move to deselect them. Once a few are deselected they will ALL move towards your viewpoint becuase these people care about one thing more than anything else - themselves.

You think this isn't possible? Very few people belong to the Conservative party, only about 134,000. It's tiny, especially when divided by 650 constituencies. Even big constituencies can't have more than a couple of thousand members. Should be relatively easy to do, especially as a decent percentage of party activists are already as anti EU as most PHers.

If you want an example look to the US. Loony right wing "Tea party" Republicans managed to remove numerous long standing Republican congressmen and senators who they thought were too soft by using exactly this method, by taking over local partys. Others then changed their tune pretty quickly when faced with the same thing and moved rapidly rightwards! If you lot want to exit the EU you need a vehicle and the only vehicle you have is the Conservative party. So stop debating it here and get on and take over your party!

Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?

Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.

The fact is the Cons are getting desperate so as usual resort to all the reasons why we should keep voting for the same knackered old horse of a party that took us into the scam at the start.

[dandarez]

unrepentant said:

don4l said:

Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?

Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.

Then you're always going to be backing a loser!

You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.

Face the truth, Dave's the loser.
IF there had been no UKIP he would probably have signed the cheque today, not in December.

As for parties being wiped out, it won't be UKIP. Limpdems will be first, and the wilderness is beckoning for the Tories if CMD is still at the helm.

You can warble on all day, the train is not stopping.

Wait and see.

[XJ Flyer]

unrepentant said:

s2art said:

unrepentant said:

Then you're always going to be backing a loser!

You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.

In large tracts of the North of England only UKIP stand a chance of displacing Labour, the Tories are dead there. What you should be advocating is that the Tories stop splitting the UKIP vote in those constituencies.

No, in large tracts of Northern England nobody is going to displace Labour. In large tracts of Southern England nobody is going to displace the Tories. Your only chance of getting out of the EU is to move the Tory party to your position and it's not a problam if you control the grass roots of each local constituency party. Think big, act local, the Tea Party nutters have shown you how to do it.

The inconvenient fact being that Obama is still running the US show.Just as voting for the Cons is just a vote for more of the same old pro EU agenda started by Heath and supported by Thatcher etc etc.

[AJS-]

unrepentant said:

No, in large tracts of Northern England nobody is going to displace Labour. In large tracts of Southern England nobody is going to displace the Tories. Your only chance of getting out of the EU is to move the Tory party to your position and it's not a problam if you control the grass roots of each local constituency party. Think big, act local, the Tea Party nutters have shown you how to do it.

Since 1973 we've had 18 years of Labour governments and 19 years of Tory governments, then 4 years of a Tory led coalition. Labour gave us one referendum. In addition to signing the Treaty of Rome in the first place the Tories gave us the Single European Act, the joys of the ERM and Maastricht, then most recently reneged on their promise of a referendum on Lisbon.

The Tories are not to be trusted on Europe. On the contrary, our best chance of getting out of this mess is to stop trusting the Conservative party to do anything positive at all, and make sure the relatively few decent people still wearing a blue rosette defect to UKIP.

[s2art]

unrepentant said:

s2art said:

unrepentant said:

Then you're always going to be backing a loser!

You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.

In large tracts of the North of England only UKIP stand a chance of displacing Labour, the Tories are dead there. What you should be advocating is that the Tories stop splitting the UKIP vote in those constituencies.

No, in large tracts of Northern England nobody is going to displace Labour. In large tracts of Southern England nobody is going to displace the Tories. Your only chance of getting out of the EU is to move the Tory party to your position and it's not a problam if you control the grass roots of each local constituency party. Think big, act local, the Tea Party nutters have shown you how to do it.

Drivel. In the Middleton by-election UKIP fell short by only 600 odd votes of displacing Labour. If the few thousand Tory voters just woke up and realised they could not possibly win that seat then UKIP would have stormed it.