Done Better than Expected - That will be £1.7bn then - WTF!
Discussion
AJS- said:
unrepentant said:
No, in large tracts of Northern England nobody is going to displace Labour. In large tracts of Southern England nobody is going to displace the Tories. Your only chance of getting out of the EU is to move the Tory party to your position and it's not a problam if you control the grass roots of each local constituency party. Think big, act local, the Tea Party nutters have shown you how to do it.
Since 1973 we've had 18 years of Labour governments and 19 years of Tory governments, then 4 years of a Tory led coalition. Labour gave us one referendum. In addition to signing the Treaty of Rome in the first place the Tories gave us the Single European Act, the joys of the ERM and Maastricht, then most recently reneged on their promise of a referendum on Lisbon.The Tories are not to be trusted on Europe. On the contrary, our best chance of getting out of this mess is to stop trusting the Conservative party to do anything positive at all, and make sure the relatively few decent people still wearing a blue rosette defect to UKIP.
XJ Flyer said:
AJS- said:
unrepentant said:
No, in large tracts of Northern England nobody is going to displace Labour. In large tracts of Southern England nobody is going to displace the Tories. Your only chance of getting out of the EU is to move the Tory party to your position and it's not a problam if you control the grass roots of each local constituency party. Think big, act local, the Tea Party nutters have shown you how to do it.
Since 1973 we've had 18 years of Labour governments and 19 years of Tory governments, then 4 years of a Tory led coalition. Labour gave us one referendum. In addition to signing the Treaty of Rome in the first place the Tories gave us the Single European Act, the joys of the ERM and Maastricht, then most recently reneged on their promise of a referendum on Lisbon.The Tories are not to be trusted on Europe. On the contrary, our best chance of getting out of this mess is to stop trusting the Conservative party to do anything positive at all, and make sure the relatively few decent people still wearing a blue rosette defect to UKIP.
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
In large tracts of the North of England only UKIP stand a chance of displacing Labour, the Tories are dead there. What you should be advocating is that the Tories stop splitting the UKIP vote in those constituencies.You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
dandarez said:
unrepentant said:
don4l said:
Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?
Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
IF there had been no UKIP he would probably have signed the cheque today, not in December.
As for parties being wiped out, it won't be UKIP. Limpdems will be first, and the wilderness is beckoning for the Tories if CMD is still at the helm.
You can warble on all day, the train is not stopping.
Wait and see.
Esseesse said:
XJ Flyer said:
AJS- said:
unrepentant said:
No, in large tracts of Northern England nobody is going to displace Labour. In large tracts of Southern England nobody is going to displace the Tories. Your only chance of getting out of the EU is to move the Tory party to your position and it's not a problam if you control the grass roots of each local constituency party. Think big, act local, the Tea Party nutters have shown you how to do it.
Since 1973 we've had 18 years of Labour governments and 19 years of Tory governments, then 4 years of a Tory led coalition. Labour gave us one referendum. In addition to signing the Treaty of Rome in the first place the Tories gave us the Single European Act, the joys of the ERM and Maastricht, then most recently reneged on their promise of a referendum on Lisbon.The Tories are not to be trusted on Europe. On the contrary, our best chance of getting out of this mess is to stop trusting the Conservative party to do anything positive at all, and make sure the relatively few decent people still wearing a blue rosette defect to UKIP.
unrepentant said:
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
In large tracts of the North of England only UKIP stand a chance of displacing Labour, the Tories are dead there. What you should be advocating is that the Tories stop splitting the UKIP vote in those constituencies.You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
unrepentant said:
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
In large tracts of the North of England only UKIP stand a chance of displacing Labour, the Tories are dead there. What you should be advocating is that the Tories stop splitting the UKIP vote in those constituencies.You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
AJS- said:
shred2bits said:
I'm just wondering what the headlines would be if we would've be liable to receive a rebate or whatever it's called and France and Germany refused to pay? Tbh it doesn't bother me as 2bn is probably nothing compared to what we spend on the wars we've been fighting for no reason. Didn't Cameron go and shout at other countries who didn't pay enough to stop Ebola?
Going off £1.8bn between 60 million people I make it £30 for every man, woman and child in the country. Since my wife and daughter don't work that's £90 from me. Without even considering who pays on behalf of the penaioners, public sector workers, benefit recipients and others who don't contribute, which at roughly 50% means £180. Glad if that's nothing to you but it would be useful to me. Mention me on a cheque.
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
In large tracts of the North of England only UKIP stand a chance of displacing Labour, the Tories are dead there. What you should be advocating is that the Tories stop splitting the UKIP vote in those constituencies.You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Friday 24th October 22:34
shred2bits said:
AJS- said:
shred2bits said:
I'm just wondering what the headlines would be if we would've be liable to receive a rebate or whatever it's called and France and Germany refused to pay? Tbh it doesn't bother me as 2bn is probably nothing compared to what we spend on the wars we've been fighting for no reason. Didn't Cameron go and shout at other countries who didn't pay enough to stop Ebola?
Going off £1.8bn between 60 million people I make it £30 for every man, woman and child in the country. Since my wife and daughter don't work that's £90 from me. Without even considering who pays on behalf of the penaioners, public sector workers, benefit recipients and others who don't contribute, which at roughly 50% means £180. Glad if that's nothing to you but it would be useful to me. Mention me on a cheque.
XJ Flyer said:
Esseesse said:
XJ Flyer said:
AJS- said:
unrepentant said:
No, in large tracts of Northern England nobody is going to displace Labour. In large tracts of Southern England nobody is going to displace the Tories. Your only chance of getting out of the EU is to move the Tory party to your position and it's not a problam if you control the grass roots of each local constituency party. Think big, act local, the Tea Party nutters have shown you how to do it.
Since 1973 we've had 18 years of Labour governments and 19 years of Tory governments, then 4 years of a Tory led coalition. Labour gave us one referendum. In addition to signing the Treaty of Rome in the first place the Tories gave us the Single European Act, the joys of the ERM and Maastricht, then most recently reneged on their promise of a referendum on Lisbon.The Tories are not to be trusted on Europe. On the contrary, our best chance of getting out of this mess is to stop trusting the Conservative party to do anything positive at all, and make sure the relatively few decent people still wearing a blue rosette defect to UKIP.
Just noticed this... In 2013, Shore's widow and their daughter both stood as United Kingdom Independence Party candidates in local elections in West Cornwall.
Northern Munkee said:
To be fair I thought Cameron was genuinely upset (and that's good for a change), still it shows he either is embarrassed he wasn't briefed, or he realises how badly it will play in the UK and Rochester. I'm not convinced he (or rather we) are not*going to pay (rather borrow) the bill at all. Indeed I'd still not vote for him, until there's a date of referendum date (in writing).
Nothing much from Ed, I suggest he claim he's going to use his mansion tax (again) to pay for it and claim when he said 10000 more midwives, 20000 nurses, 5000 doctors (or whatever it was) he says that he didn't specify which country they'd be employed, as in they'll be in France, Germany, etc.
ETA *not
Don't believe it good acting on Cameron's part.Money will go in after Dec Ist.Cameron has Nigel on his back he has to make a show.>;)Nothing much from Ed, I suggest he claim he's going to use his mansion tax (again) to pay for it and claim when he said 10000 more midwives, 20000 nurses, 5000 doctors (or whatever it was) he says that he didn't specify which country they'd be employed, as in they'll be in France, Germany, etc.
ETA *not
Edited by Northern Munkee on Friday 24th October 19:54
shred2bits said:
AJS- said:
shred2bits said:
I'm just wondering what the headlines would be if we would've be liable to receive a rebate or whatever it's called and France and Germany refused to pay? Tbh it doesn't bother me as 2bn is probably nothing compared to what we spend on the wars we've been fighting for no reason. Didn't Cameron go and shout at other countries who didn't pay enough to stop Ebola?
Going off £1.8bn between 60 million people I make it £30 for every man, woman and child in the country. Since my wife and daughter don't work that's £90 from me. Without even considering who pays on behalf of the penaioners, public sector workers, benefit recipients and others who don't contribute, which at roughly 50% means £180. Glad if that's nothing to you but it would be useful to me. Mention me on a cheque.
£2bn is not "nothing" in any sense. It's an extraordinary amount of money.
As for Clegg and his principles - what a sorry state of affairs. His principles are plainly and simply wrong. Just because he has them it doesn't make them good. Without invoking Godwin, Stalin, Franco and Mao were principled men. They truly believed in their madcap schemes and stood by them. Would you vote for them too? Principles are great but the wrong principles are worse than none at all.
unrepentant said:
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
s2art said:
unrepentant said:
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
In large tracts of the North of England only UKIP stand a chance of displacing Labour, the Tories are dead there. What you should be advocating is that the Tories stop splitting the UKIP vote in those constituencies.You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
unrepentant said:
don4l said:
Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?
Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
I've been familiar with the Conservatives since 1975. They have always been Europhiles.
don4l said:
unrepentant said:
don4l said:
Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?
Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
I've been familiar with the Conservatives since 1975. They have always been Europhiles.
XJ Flyer said:
don4l said:
unrepentant said:
don4l said:
Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?
Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
I've been familiar with the Conservatives since 1975. They have always been Europhiles.
Those that think that the Conservatives are historically eurosceptics should watch 'this sceptic isle' by Peter Hitchens. I'm (only) 29, and it amounst other things was an eye opener for me. Remember it was the Tories that took us into the EEC in the first place, and they knew exactly what it would become.
Esseesse said:
XJ Flyer said:
don4l said:
unrepentant said:
don4l said:
Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?
Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
I've been familiar with the Conservatives since 1975. They have always been Europhiles.
Those that think that the Conservatives are historically eurosceptics should watch 'this sceptic isle' by Peter Hitchens. I'm (only) 29, and it amounst other things was an eye opener for me. Remember it was the Tories that took us into the EEC in the first place, and they knew exactly what it would become.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1972/ja...
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1971/ja...
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 25th October 01:42
don4l said:
unrepentant said:
don4l said:
Why on Earth should I try to change the socialist Conservative party when I agree with nearly all of UKIP's policies?
Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
Then you're always going to be backing a loser!Much easier to simply support a party that I agree with.
You can be an idealist and support the party that agrees with your narrow little Englander range of beliefs but which will never do more than have the odd token MP and which will eventually be wiped out - or you can change a party that is electable and which one day will be forced to move to a full Euro sceptic position, pissing on UKIP as it does so.
I've been familiar with the Conservatives since 1975. They have always been Europhiles.
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