"Alcoholism is an illness"...
Discussion
smegmore said:
I've been involved in an an alcoholic relationship. (my wife)
It is not something which I would wish on anyone, no matter how much I disliked them.
This situation brought me down from being in a very comfortable lifestyle to being almost bankrupt within the space of less than 1 year. The greatest sadness for me was that I was the last one to know what was happening, I was working overseas and earning great money for the future and my other half was ordering taxis to bring carrier bags full of drink back to my house so that she, and all her invited, so-called friends, could get pissed every day, at my expense.
A salutary lesson to all here who work away from home.
I'm not saying, of course, that all wives of husbands who are working away will do this, but beware, and check your finances regularly.
That is all.
It is not something which I would wish on anyone, no matter how much I disliked them.
This situation brought me down from being in a very comfortable lifestyle to being almost bankrupt within the space of less than 1 year. The greatest sadness for me was that I was the last one to know what was happening, I was working overseas and earning great money for the future and my other half was ordering taxis to bring carrier bags full of drink back to my house so that she, and all her invited, so-called friends, could get pissed every day, at my expense.
A salutary lesson to all here who work away from home.
I'm not saying, of course, that all wives of husbands who are working away will do this, but beware, and check your finances regularly.
That is all.
dandarez said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
What constitutes an illness, disease, condition etc? I have no idea of the medical definitions.
If you were trapped on a desert island and you have cancer, it would get worse and you'd die. Sooner than you would otherwise. If an alcoholic was trapped on the same island, I assume they would start to recover. If they weren't rescued for 20 yrs, the alky may have broken the habit completely.
Can something be an illness if it always gets better without any medical intervention?
I'm not being flippant. I really don't know.
No opinion either way to that, except if trapped on an island with the big C you wouldn't be eating any sIf you were trapped on a desert island and you have cancer, it would get worse and you'd die. Sooner than you would otherwise. If an alcoholic was trapped on the same island, I assume they would start to recover. If they weren't rescued for 20 yrs, the alky may have broken the habit completely.
Can something be an illness if it always gets better without any medical intervention?
I'm not being flippant. I really don't know.
t or junk food anymore, probably only fresh fish, fruit etc so... there would be no bloody dreadful chemo or drugs... never know, you might survive, who knows? Just guess time.However, if you were an alchi and not a drop in sight, you might just go absolutely mad and drown yourself! Just a thought, no more.
for the at least third time in this thread;
alcohol withdrawl has many sequalae which if untreated have significant mortality and morbidity
DELIRUM TREMENS IS A LIFE THREATENING CLINICAL EMERGENCY WITH A SIGNIFICANT MORTALITY RATE , EVEN IF TREATED
alcohol withdrawl preciptated seizures are also a clinical emergency with a significant mortality rate if not treated
dandarez said:
However, if you were an alchi and not a drop in sight, you might just go absolutely mad and drown yourself! Just a thought, no more.
Or you could spit into coconut milk and make it ferment. Probably take a week or two and it's quite likely to make you go blind, but you could get by on the sanitising gel in the first aid kit until then. 
I have no direct experience with full on alki thank god (some with drugs) but two of my partners drank more than I liked, and to me, more than was good for them.
This may be pretty common amongst both men and woman. I did not view it as an illness, and am not sure this classification is particularly helpful since it implies lack of 'fault or cause'.
What was interesting to me was that as a response, I drank less, and was certainly 'less fun'.
Crazy world we live in, and my heart goes out to those affected.
This may be pretty common amongst both men and woman. I did not view it as an illness, and am not sure this classification is particularly helpful since it implies lack of 'fault or cause'.
What was interesting to me was that as a response, I drank less, and was certainly 'less fun'.
Crazy world we live in, and my heart goes out to those affected.
Initially, responsibility for taking that first drink/drug lies with the individual. Mind you, not everyone who starts drinking/using is able to foresee the potential consequences. Physical dependence can take a little while to develop, although a mental dependence can take considerably less so.
There's no doubt that addiction/alcoholism doesn't start as a disease/illness such as Cancer, but once afflicted, it can be every bit as devastating to both the addict/alcoholic and their families. I have seen addicts/alcoholics who have become so lost in their disease, their actions and desperation for their fix cannot seriously be seen as those of a sane individual. Be they injecting into their neck or groin, or mixing aftershaves with water (so as to make them more tolerable when drinking). You can also look at cases like Tracey Sutherland, where chronic alcoholism have robbed her of even the most basic capacity for moral judgement, let alone the ability to stop drinking. In fact, she had been drinking from the age of 8, so one might question her culpability at such a young age? Either way, the end result was truly terrible and an innocent infant lost their life.
As for obesity, I myself put on a lot of weight after a near fatal accident, where I was wheelchair bound for some years. I didn't eat crisps, drink coke or shovel takeaways into my fat face, but I did put on about 6 stone. Like alcoholism/addiction, it didn't happen over night and being so gradual it took a while for it to register with me. I tried eating what would be deemed ''a healthy diet'' but I still lost very little, if anything. In fact, I had to start eating more, at regular intervals throughout the day, before I made any significant weight loss. My problem had been eating breakfast, then little or nothing else, till I had a big evening meal an hour or so before bed. Once I discovered that, I lost a stone in the first 12 days!
Be it obesity, alcoholism or addiction, these people deserve some compassion and guidance. If not for them, for the sake of their families. A bit of humility can go a long way.
There's no doubt that addiction/alcoholism doesn't start as a disease/illness such as Cancer, but once afflicted, it can be every bit as devastating to both the addict/alcoholic and their families. I have seen addicts/alcoholics who have become so lost in their disease, their actions and desperation for their fix cannot seriously be seen as those of a sane individual. Be they injecting into their neck or groin, or mixing aftershaves with water (so as to make them more tolerable when drinking). You can also look at cases like Tracey Sutherland, where chronic alcoholism have robbed her of even the most basic capacity for moral judgement, let alone the ability to stop drinking. In fact, she had been drinking from the age of 8, so one might question her culpability at such a young age? Either way, the end result was truly terrible and an innocent infant lost their life.
As for obesity, I myself put on a lot of weight after a near fatal accident, where I was wheelchair bound for some years. I didn't eat crisps, drink coke or shovel takeaways into my fat face, but I did put on about 6 stone. Like alcoholism/addiction, it didn't happen over night and being so gradual it took a while for it to register with me. I tried eating what would be deemed ''a healthy diet'' but I still lost very little, if anything. In fact, I had to start eating more, at regular intervals throughout the day, before I made any significant weight loss. My problem had been eating breakfast, then little or nothing else, till I had a big evening meal an hour or so before bed. Once I discovered that, I lost a stone in the first 12 days!
Be it obesity, alcoholism or addiction, these people deserve some compassion and guidance. If not for them, for the sake of their families. A bit of humility can go a long way.
e21Mark said:
Initially, responsibility for taking that first drink/drug lies with the individual. Mind you, not everyone who starts drinking/using is able to foresee the potential consequences. Physical dependence can take a little while to develop, although a mental dependence can take considerably less so.
There's no doubt that addiction/alcoholism doesn't start as a disease/illness such as Cancer, but once afflicted, it can be every bit as devastating to both the addict/alcoholic and their families. I have seen addicts/alcoholics who have become so lost in their disease, their actions and desperation for their fix cannot seriously be seen as those of a sane individual. Be they injecting into their neck or groin, or mixing aftershaves with water (so as to make them more tolerable when drinking). You can also look at cases like Tracey Sutherland, where chronic alcoholism have robbed her of even the most basic capacity for moral judgement, let alone the ability to stop drinking. In fact, she had been drinking from the age of 8, so one might question her culpability at such a young age? Either way, the end result was truly terrible and an innocent infant lost their life.
As for obesity, I myself put on a lot of weight after a near fatal accident, where I was wheelchair bound for some years. I didn't eat crisps, drink coke or shovel takeaways into my fat face, but I did put on about 6 stone. Like alcoholism/addiction, it didn't happen over night and being so gradual it took a while for it to register with me. I tried eating what would be deemed ''a healthy diet'' but I still lost very little, if anything. In fact, I had to start eating more, at regular intervals throughout the day, before I made any significant weight loss. My problem had been eating breakfast, then little or nothing else, till I had a big evening meal an hour or so before bed. Once I discovered that, I lost a stone in the first 12 days!
Be it obesity, alcoholism or addiction, these people deserve some compassion and guidance. If not for them, for the sake of their families. A bit of humility can go a long way.
indeed, there for the grace of God..There's no doubt that addiction/alcoholism doesn't start as a disease/illness such as Cancer, but once afflicted, it can be every bit as devastating to both the addict/alcoholic and their families. I have seen addicts/alcoholics who have become so lost in their disease, their actions and desperation for their fix cannot seriously be seen as those of a sane individual. Be they injecting into their neck or groin, or mixing aftershaves with water (so as to make them more tolerable when drinking). You can also look at cases like Tracey Sutherland, where chronic alcoholism have robbed her of even the most basic capacity for moral judgement, let alone the ability to stop drinking. In fact, she had been drinking from the age of 8, so one might question her culpability at such a young age? Either way, the end result was truly terrible and an innocent infant lost their life.
As for obesity, I myself put on a lot of weight after a near fatal accident, where I was wheelchair bound for some years. I didn't eat crisps, drink coke or shovel takeaways into my fat face, but I did put on about 6 stone. Like alcoholism/addiction, it didn't happen over night and being so gradual it took a while for it to register with me. I tried eating what would be deemed ''a healthy diet'' but I still lost very little, if anything. In fact, I had to start eating more, at regular intervals throughout the day, before I made any significant weight loss. My problem had been eating breakfast, then little or nothing else, till I had a big evening meal an hour or so before bed. Once I discovered that, I lost a stone in the first 12 days!
Be it obesity, alcoholism or addiction, these people deserve some compassion and guidance. If not for them, for the sake of their families. A bit of humility can go a long way.
dudleybloke said:
Apparently one new method for helping the boozehounds is nitrous oxide.
Seems to be all the rage around Hipsterville at the moment, though I'm not sure if it's City workers or Hipsters who are doing this stuff. IMO any addiction or obsession is an illness - but how one gets to this point (and cures oneself) is outside the confines of pure science - philosophy might be helpful.
Edited by fido on Monday 27th October 10:13
I've seen a wonderful mother lose her home, husband, job, friends, older kids (younger kids when they get old enough to see whats going on).....it's not like smoking, I can assure you. And its a self serving illness - the person affected doesnt really have control over their choices. Its like saying hold your breath for as long as you can....now do the same for 20 secs more. You will be fine, you wont die from 20 secs extra....its your body, you can "choose" not to take that breath. Now imagine you do that......you get the extra 20 seconds. Well done......now do it 100 times a day, everyday. At some point you start to see why people give in when their body is telling them to do something even if they dont want to.
My only grey area is what causes it - my personal opinion is that there is brain fault that is triggered by over exposure. In my example the person never drank their whole life....at 35 they started and within 6 months were screwed. Had they got wasted at Uni at 18 maybe it would have kicked in then.
So, if you have that brain fault.....you're only hope is to avoid a period of excessive drinking. IMO
My only grey area is what causes it - my personal opinion is that there is brain fault that is triggered by over exposure. In my example the person never drank their whole life....at 35 they started and within 6 months were screwed. Had they got wasted at Uni at 18 maybe it would have kicked in then.
So, if you have that brain fault.....you're only hope is to avoid a period of excessive drinking. IMO
Guam said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
What constitutes an illness, disease, condition etc? I have no idea of the medical definitions.
If you were trapped on a desert island and you have cancer, it would get worse and you'd die. Sooner than you would otherwise. If an alcoholic was trapped on the same island, I assume they would start to recover. If they weren't rescued for 20 yrs, the alky may have broken the habit completely.
Can something be an illness if it always gets better without any medical intervention?
I'm not being flippant. I really don't know.
From what I recall an Alcoholic can if plunged into rapid withdrawal (as with some other addictions) die from the effects (willing to be corrected on this). I seem to recall that getting them off takes support to ensure no potentially fatal consequences?If you were trapped on a desert island and you have cancer, it would get worse and you'd die. Sooner than you would otherwise. If an alcoholic was trapped on the same island, I assume they would start to recover. If they weren't rescued for 20 yrs, the alky may have broken the habit completely.
Can something be an illness if it always gets better without any medical intervention?
I'm not being flippant. I really don't know.
http://www.livescience.com/15300-alcohol-withdrawa...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_withdrawal_sy...
The actual using/drinking can be almost a symptom of the disease/illness of alcoholism/addiction. Hence ''dry drunks'' etc.
When using addicts lose the capacity for choice. This is the crux of addiction. Once clean / sober however, they can manage their addiction via things like 12 step programs.
Having seen multiple medical detoxes - i can assure you the doctors/nurses take it VERY serious indeed. The risk of a seizure and being dead as a result is very, very real. This is not the same as going cold turkey from your cigarettes.
In fact, one of the biggest problems with alcoholism is that people think they have an understanding.
They might have been drunk, they might spend a couple of years drinking more than is good for them, they might have been addicted to cigarettes, might have been overweight...... none of that is like being an alcoholic.
In fact, one of the biggest problems with alcoholism is that people think they have an understanding.
They might have been drunk, they might spend a couple of years drinking more than is good for them, they might have been addicted to cigarettes, might have been overweight...... none of that is like being an alcoholic.
Alcoholism is an addiction, and addiction is an excuse for being weak willed. It seems quite normal for humans to have a weak will however.
People that drink and will not stop do so because they like drinking more than the thought of the consequences. They drink because they want to.
Same goes for smokers and people that overeat or bite their nails.
People that drink and will not stop do so because they like drinking more than the thought of the consequences. They drink because they want to.
Same goes for smokers and people that overeat or bite their nails.
Esseesse said:
Alcoholism is an addiction, and addiction is an excuse for being weak willed. It seems quite normal for humans to have a weak will however.
People that drink and will not stop do so because they like drinking more than the thought of the consequences. They drink because they want to.
Same goes for smokers and people that overeat or bite their nails.
You could argue that addiction is a result of being weak willed, but it certainly isn't an excuse. People that drink and will not stop do so because they like drinking more than the thought of the consequences. They drink because they want to.
Same goes for smokers and people that overeat or bite their nails.
It's not as simple as it being an excuse for doing what they like.
Esseesse said:
Alcoholism is an addiction, and addiction is an excuse for being weak willed. It seems quite normal for humans to have a weak will however.
People that drink and will not stop do so because they like drinking more than the thought of the consequences. They drink because they want to.
Same goes for smokers and people that overeat or bite their nails.
Not in my experience....she hated it. It destroyed her life, lost her kids/house/the lot....woke up everyday and despised the drink. And drank every day.People that drink and will not stop do so because they like drinking more than the thought of the consequences. They drink because they want to.
Same goes for smokers and people that overeat or bite their nails.
Do you know an alcholic??
Tiggsy said:
Esseesse said:
Alcoholism is an addiction, and addiction is an excuse for being weak willed. It seems quite normal for humans to have a weak will however.
People that drink and will not stop do so because they like drinking more than the thought of the consequences. They drink because they want to.
Same goes for smokers and people that overeat or bite their nails.
Not in my experience....she hated it. It destroyed her life, lost her kids/house/the lot....woke up everyday and despised the drink. And drank every day.People that drink and will not stop do so because they like drinking more than the thought of the consequences. They drink because they want to.
Same goes for smokers and people that overeat or bite their nails.
Do you know an alcholic??
The bit I agree with the OP is that it is a personal choice to start drinking. Nobody forces you to start, nobody forces you to become hooked. Once you are it is out of your hands however until that point it is your choice!
I lived with an alcoholic, for close to 10 years, over that period, it became pregressively worse.
I will say these things about alcoholism.
It can be viewed in its origins, in an individual , in a similar light to obesity. In the vast majority of cases, it is self inflicted, but in some cases it can be the result of an illness. Mental health in the case of Alcoholism , numerous glandular and other ailmants in the case of obesity.
Obesity, and alcoholism, can effectively create/instigate diseases. Cirrohsis , diabetes, etc, etc.
However, alcoholism is not an illness in its own right, its a self inflicted addiction, akin to smoking, once hooked, very difficult to stop. Plus of course, the mental health problems that alcoholism can create, delusion, violence, split personality , paranoia , in short, very different to the tobacco addiction which usually, for 3rd parties' just leaves a bad smell around the place.
So there we are, alcoholism is an addiction, in the vast majority of cases self inflicted, it is not an illness, although it can be, and often is, a catalyst for such.
Simple answer, don't drink, you will never become an alcy,.
Me? I most certainly do drink, but keeps an eye on consumption, "uses head" . As for my ex, she is still alive,but estranged from her entire family. She is on lifelong medication, and host to permanent life shortening ailments. Not a full shilling between the ears, either.
She brought the entire fiasco upon herself.
I will say these things about alcoholism.
It can be viewed in its origins, in an individual , in a similar light to obesity. In the vast majority of cases, it is self inflicted, but in some cases it can be the result of an illness. Mental health in the case of Alcoholism , numerous glandular and other ailmants in the case of obesity.
Obesity, and alcoholism, can effectively create/instigate diseases. Cirrohsis , diabetes, etc, etc.
However, alcoholism is not an illness in its own right, its a self inflicted addiction, akin to smoking, once hooked, very difficult to stop. Plus of course, the mental health problems that alcoholism can create, delusion, violence, split personality , paranoia , in short, very different to the tobacco addiction which usually, for 3rd parties' just leaves a bad smell around the place.
So there we are, alcoholism is an addiction, in the vast majority of cases self inflicted, it is not an illness, although it can be, and often is, a catalyst for such.
Simple answer, don't drink, you will never become an alcy,.
Me? I most certainly do drink, but keeps an eye on consumption, "uses head" . As for my ex, she is still alive,but estranged from her entire family. She is on lifelong medication, and host to permanent life shortening ailments. Not a full shilling between the ears, either.
She brought the entire fiasco upon herself.
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