UK axes support for Mediterranean migrant rescue operation

[Murph7355]

Mermaid said:

New plans

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32383126

BBC Article said:

Other points include:

- Joint processing of asylum applications - within two months of their being lodged

- Fingerprinting and recording of all migrants

- An EU pilot project on migrant resettlement - this would be voluntary

- Offer of return travel packages

- Immigration liaison officers in key countries

That'll all work towards deterring these people.

And we wonder why parties like UKIP are seeing an uplift in support.

Sinking the smugglers' vessels gets 10/10. The rest 0/10

[dandarez]

NicD said:

actually, they may have paid 1-2 thousand dollars.

I have been hearing this over several days now. That these (migrants) may have paid a thousand dollars, two thousand dollars, a thousand euros, fifteen hundred euros ...EACH to get a place on these 'boats'.

Then I constantly hear that they are 'ALL' desperately 'POOR' and deprived peoples?

Something doesn't add up does it?

ie: Where the f are they getting the money from?

[rich85uk]

If we start to make it easier for those making this journey to survive then Europe is just going to become flooded with illegal immigrants which we don't want

Any country in the EU simply cannot be seen to take the let them drown attitude

There is serious money to be made in this by the traffickers and I wouldn't be surprised if half of that ends up going to terrorists, good luck trying to stop that in a country where ISIS have a strong presence

If they can fit 700 people on a boat and make 1 million US dollars by sending them off to the land of opportunity then this isn't going to go away quickly

[jmorgan]

Rovinghawk said:

jmorgan said:

That simple is it?

Yes, it is.

They don't have to get on the boat. If they choose to do so it doesn't magically become our problem if it sinks. They are responsible for their actions & the consequences thereof.

Perhaps harsh, but very simple.

No, too simple a thought for the situation. I don't think there is a point they can actually say "Hang on...." I am assuming they are ripped off, they have been fleeced and forced and scared and coerced by some very nasty people. I expect that these people are ruthless and there is more suffering and death.

[V8 Fettler]

The West needs to start at the beginning and bring and prosperity to Africa. Not absolutely certain how that would be achieved.

[jmorgan]

Mermaid said:

jmorgan said:

Of course it is, there is more to it than just getting on a boat. I do not see it as that simple.

New plans

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32383126

Not sure they will achieve anything. I expect the ones in charge have a few motives. Profit and overwhelming the services and creating the issues for Europe. They are not just a source for money, they are a weapon.

[hidetheelephants]

A small but significant issue for the 'let them drown' faction; it's against the law of the sea. Mariners face loss of professional qualifications, fines and jail time for ignoring SOLAS; see Franco Schettino for details. You can take your 'let them drown' and poke it.

[voyds9]

V8 Fettler said:

The West needs to start at the beginning and bring and prosperity to Africa. Not absolutely certain how that would be achieved.

We are, one leader at a time.

The problem isn't the money, it's the corrupt society it's disappearing in to.

http://fee.org/freeman/detail/the-sorry-record-of-...

just shows where some of it disappears to.

[ecsrobin]

So they had a chap from Eritrea on BBC news who was an illegal immigrant to be fair he sounds a switched on guy and has been successful at university. However one of his reasons for leaving was he woul have been made to do national service!!!

[MentalSarcasm]

dandarez said:

I have been hearing this over several days now. That these (migrants) may have paid a thousand dollars, two thousand dollars, a thousand euros, fifteen hundred euros ...EACH to get a place on these 'boats'.

Then I constantly hear that they are 'ALL' desperately 'POOR' and deprived peoples?

Something doesn't add up does it?

ie: Where the f are they getting the money from?

Two ways;

1. For the past decade every single member of the family would have contributed something towards the fee, parents, brothers, sisters, brother and sister in laws, everyone will have worked, put a little by, and made sacrifices, so that just one of them can go. The belief is that once they're in Europe they'll then be able to earn enough to bring other family members over, or they'll send back a portion of their earnings, a small amount to the likes of you and me, but a life-changing amount in certain countries.

2. This one is far more common; you approach the people that get you on these boats. They'll tell you the fee, and then when you say you can't possibly find the money, they'll introduce you to someone who can lend it to you. This person is part of the trafficker gang, but they pretend that they're just a concerned citizen that wants to help others get to the Land of Opportunity. So you borrow the borrow the money, pay it to the gang (who actually loaned the money in the first place), get on the boat. Assuming you don't drown, and get to Italy safely, you'll then suddenly find that you can't go out and get the honest job you believed you'd have no trouble finding. Instead, you're now "owned" by the trafficker gang, who tell you that you now owe them double for safe arrival, and interest on top of that is charged at a daily rate, oh and they've provided your accomodation but that costs extra too.

They have your passport, if you have one, or hold the fake, which they will have also charged you for. If you're a woman, they'll transport you over to somewhere like Bulgaria and stick you in a seedy brothel. If you're a man then you're now part of the local pickpocketing or begging gang. Fail to hand over what little money you steal or beg, and your family back home will be punished for it. Go the police, you're an illegal immigrant and you'll be thrown in jail, then sent back home, where you'll still owe the money and where they still know where your family are.

[steveT350C]

dandarez said:

NicD said:

actually, they may have paid 1-2 thousand dollars.

I have been hearing this over several days now. That these (migrants) may have paid a thousand dollars, two thousand dollars, a thousand euros, fifteen hundred euros ...EACH to get a place on these 'boats'.

Then I constantly hear that they are 'ALL' desperately 'POOR' and deprived peoples?

Something doesn't add up does it?

ie: Where the f are they getting the money from?

There was a guy being interviewed on LBC yesterday afternoon who had made this journey, now living in London. He said most people on the boat were not fleeing persecution but were economic migrants looking for a better life.

[Yidwann]

ecsrobin said:

So they had a chap from Eritrea on BBC news who was an illegal immigrant to be fair he sounds a switched on guy and has been successful at university. However one of his reasons for leaving was he woul have been made to do national service!!!

You can't just give one of his reasons though and ignore the rest, yes he wanted to escape National Service, but higher up his list was the lack of democratic and religious freedom.

[kev1974]

loafer123 said:

In my view, blockading the Lybian ports to cut off the source, combined with flying those that do make it/who are rescued back to their home countries so that the journey is seen as futile would be the most humane response whilst maintaining border integrity.

We cannot simply let them drown.

Not that simple, they just refuse to confirm which country they started out from or it cannot be proved, so where do you fly them back to.

Maybe need to do a better job of destroying/disabling end-of-life ships so that they are not available to the people traffickers.

[Octoposse]

Cross-threading with 'War with Russia' . . .

The Guardian said:

Dimitris Avramopoulos, the European commissioner for migration issues, said the operation would be “civil-military” modelled on previous military action in the Horn of Africa to combat Somali piracy. The military action would require a UN mandate.

Which - presumably - the Russians will veto "on humanitarian grounds" whilst pissing themselves laughing.

Picking a fight with a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council with whom we actually appear to have no inherent conflict of strategic interests, in an otherwise very threatening world, not appearing to be such a spiffing idea after all . . . who'd have guessed?

[over_the_hill]

So will all these Souther Med countries bleating for help be coming up to Calais / Sangat Camp to help police the tunnel and ferry ports. No - thought not.

[loafer123]

kev1974 said:

loafer123 said:

In my view, blockading the Lybian ports to cut off the source, combined with flying those that do make it/who are rescued back to their home countries so that the journey is seen as futile would be the most humane response whilst maintaining border integrity.

We cannot simply let them drown.

Not that simple, they just refuse to confirm which country they started out from or it cannot be proved, so where do you fly them back to.

Maybe need to do a better job of destroying/disabling end-of-life ships so that they are not available to the people traffickers.

Pretty easy with a genetic/DNA test nowadays.

[V8 Fettler]

voyds9 said:

V8 Fettler said:

The West needs to start at the beginning and bring and prosperity to Africa. Not absolutely certain how that would be achieved.

We are, one leader at a time.

The problem isn't the money, it's the corrupt society it's disappearing in to.

http://fee.org/freeman/detail/the-sorry-record-of-...

just shows where some of it disappears to.

Interesting article, mentions the unmentionable concept that most Africans might have a better standard of living in an Africa controlled by Europeans.

[Mojocvh]

loafer123 said:

kev1974 said:

loafer123 said:

In my view, blockading the Lybian ports to cut off the source, combined with flying those that do make it/who are rescued back to their home countries so that the journey is seen as futile would be the most humane response whilst maintaining border integrity.

We cannot simply let them drown.

Not that simple, they just refuse to confirm which country they started out from or it cannot be proved, so where do you fly them back to.

Maybe need to do a better job of destroying/disabling end-of-life ships so that they are not available to the people traffickers.

Pretty easy with a genetic/DNA test nowadays.

Do explain further ..

[Lost soul]

At this rate the whole of Africa will move to Europe in the next 10 years

[loafer123]

Mojocvh said:

loafer123 said:

kev1974 said:

loafer123 said:

In my view, blockading the Lybian ports to cut off the source, combined with flying those that do make it/who are rescued back to their home countries so that the journey is seen as futile would be the most humane response whilst maintaining border integrity.

We cannot simply let them drown.

Not that simple, they just refuse to confirm which country they started out from or it cannot be proved, so where do you fly them back to.

Maybe need to do a better job of destroying/disabling end-of-life ships so that they are not available to the people traffickers.

Pretty easy with a genetic/DNA test nowadays.

Do explain further ..

I heard a programme on Radio 4 about the UK Border Agency doing it some time ago.

Doing some research now reveals the testing was subsequently abandoned, following an outcry from asylum advocates and over concerns of level of accuracy and people ending up on the wrong side of a border.

Good article here explains the issues in some details:

http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/genew...