UK axes support for Mediterranean migrant rescue operation
Discussion
What a difference a day makes.
Daily Mail, 2nd September: "Unless Europe tightens its asylum rules and reimposes border controls – both internal and external – migrants will continue to flood in, while Britain will be all but powerless to resist the tide."
Daily Mail, 3rd September: "Pictures of Aylan’s limp body in the sand and of it being carried by a local gendarme have come to epitomise the crisis engulfing Europe as a tide of humanity flees the horrors in the Middle East."
It must be very confusing if you get your news from the Mail, not knowing if dead children were fleeing the horrors of home or simply taking advantage of lax border controls. Hopefully normal service will be resumed tomorrow. The image of a small boy who really was "powerless to resist the tide" will soon be forgotten.
Daily Mail, 2nd September: "Unless Europe tightens its asylum rules and reimposes border controls – both internal and external – migrants will continue to flood in, while Britain will be all but powerless to resist the tide."
Daily Mail, 3rd September: "Pictures of Aylan’s limp body in the sand and of it being carried by a local gendarme have come to epitomise the crisis engulfing Europe as a tide of humanity flees the horrors in the Middle East."
It must be very confusing if you get your news from the Mail, not knowing if dead children were fleeing the horrors of home or simply taking advantage of lax border controls. Hopefully normal service will be resumed tomorrow. The image of a small boy who really was "powerless to resist the tide" will soon be forgotten.
slow_poke said:
Hooli said:
Let them drown, if we save them they'll only cost us more money we haven't got. They should stay & sort their own country out, how do they think the west improved?
Hey Hooli, in light of the photograph of the 3 year old boy drowned and his corpse washed up on a EU beach - do you still advocate "Let them drown"?I would also be interested why Turkey is not stopping them set off, its not a war zone, its a holiday area.
The Australians have proved turning them back works, the numbers set out in boats with all the risks that intails has reduced massively.
We need to keep in mind that those photographs are of children who drowned trying to get from Turkey to Greece. We may not be able to guarantee safety for refugees in Syria, but we could do it in Turkey. Would that be enough to stop them trying to get into the EU? I suspect not.
Ultimately, if we don't want people to drown in the Med or suffocate in lorries, we have two options; completely close the routes, so that they cannot be successfully used and are known to be impossible, or open the borders and help them all into the EU safely.
Ultimately, if we don't want people to drown in the Med or suffocate in lorries, we have two options; completely close the routes, so that they cannot be successfully used and are known to be impossible, or open the borders and help them all into the EU safely.
Breadvan72 said:
What a difference a day makes.
Daily Mail, 2nd September: "Unless Europe tightens its asylum rules and reimposes border controls – both internal and external – migrants will continue to flood in, while Britain will be all but powerless to resist the tide."
Daily Mail, 3rd September: "Pictures of Aylan’s limp body in the sand and of it being carried by a local gendarme have come to epitomise the crisis engulfing Europe as a tide of humanity flees the horrors in the Middle East."
It must be very confusing if you get your news from the Mail, not knowing if dead children were fleeing the horrors of home or simply taking advantage of lax border controls. Hopefully normal service will be resumed tomorrow. The image of a small boy who really was "powerless to resist the tide" will soon be forgotten.
One of the stories in today's DM has several pics from the boy's father's facebook showing the family together.Daily Mail, 2nd September: "Unless Europe tightens its asylum rules and reimposes border controls – both internal and external – migrants will continue to flood in, while Britain will be all but powerless to resist the tide."
Daily Mail, 3rd September: "Pictures of Aylan’s limp body in the sand and of it being carried by a local gendarme have come to epitomise the crisis engulfing Europe as a tide of humanity flees the horrors in the Middle East."
It must be very confusing if you get your news from the Mail, not knowing if dead children were fleeing the horrors of home or simply taking advantage of lax border controls. Hopefully normal service will be resumed tomorrow. The image of a small boy who really was "powerless to resist the tide" will soon be forgotten.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219553/Te...
I realise that some of them are taken in Turkey, which it seems that they lived in for quite some time after leaving Syria.
Either way I'm interested to know what exactly they were fleeing that they needed to risk the kids' lives, as if I'm honest, the facebook pics appear to show a pretty decent life.
Obviously the beach picture on its own is desperately sad, but there would appear to be a huge amount of back story being missed, the beach picture shouldn't be taken to tell the story on its own.
otolith said:
We need to keep in mind that those photographs are of children who drowned trying to get from Turkey to Greece. We may not be able to guarantee safety for refugees in Syria, but we could do it in Turkey. Would that be enough to stop them trying to get into the EU? I suspect not.
Ultimately, if we don't want people to drown in the Med or suffocate in lorries, we have two options; completely close the routes, so that they cannot be successfully used and are known to be impossible, or open the borders and help them all into the EU safely.
I agree but might the second option lead to more coming ? How many can Europe take before we have social unrest.Ultimately, if we don't want people to drown in the Med or suffocate in lorries, we have two options; completely close the routes, so that they cannot be successfully used and are known to be impossible, or open the borders and help them all into the EU safely.
Yes, opening the borders would lead to absolutely massive influxes. That's just the reality of the situation - if you turn people away, they will try to get in illicitly and some of them will die in the process. If you don't want any of them to die trying, you let them all in, turn them all away or find a way to get them to choose to stay put.
Breadvan72 said:
What a difference a day makes.
Daily Mail, 2nd September: "Unless Europe tightens its asylum rules and reimposes border controls – both internal and external – migrants will continue to flood in, while Britain will be all but powerless to resist the tide."
Daily Mail, 3rd September: "Pictures of Aylan’s limp body in the sand and of it being carried by a local gendarme have come to epitomise the crisis engulfing Europe as a tide of humanity flees the horrors in the Middle East."
It must be very confusing if you get your news from the Mail, not knowing if dead children were fleeing the horrors of home or simply taking advantage of lax border controls. Hopefully normal service will be resumed tomorrow. The image of a small boy who really was "powerless to resist the tide" will soon be forgotten.
The Daily Mail is not a newspaper, just a non-prescription means of raising your dander.Daily Mail, 2nd September: "Unless Europe tightens its asylum rules and reimposes border controls – both internal and external – migrants will continue to flood in, while Britain will be all but powerless to resist the tide."
Daily Mail, 3rd September: "Pictures of Aylan’s limp body in the sand and of it being carried by a local gendarme have come to epitomise the crisis engulfing Europe as a tide of humanity flees the horrors in the Middle East."
It must be very confusing if you get your news from the Mail, not knowing if dead children were fleeing the horrors of home or simply taking advantage of lax border controls. Hopefully normal service will be resumed tomorrow. The image of a small boy who really was "powerless to resist the tide" will soon be forgotten.
voyds9 said:
Salmond on the radio "Mr Cameron shames the UK by not taking more refugees"
What he didn't say was Scotland was so ashamed that they would take some.
Not a devolved issue sir. Although if we were taking hundreds of thousands I get the impression that Salmond would be moaning about that as well. Awful man.What he didn't say was Scotland was so ashamed that they would take some.
hidetheelephants said:
Breadvan72 said:
What a difference a day makes.
Daily Mail, 2nd September: "Unless Europe tightens its asylum rules and reimposes border controls – both internal and external – migrants will continue to flood in, while Britain will be all but powerless to resist the tide."
Daily Mail, 3rd September: "Pictures of Aylan’s limp body in the sand and of it being carried by a local gendarme have come to epitomise the crisis engulfing Europe as a tide of humanity flees the horrors in the Middle East."
It must be very confusing if you get your news from the Mail, not knowing if dead children were fleeing the horrors of home or simply taking advantage of lax border controls. Hopefully normal service will be resumed tomorrow. The image of a small boy who really was "powerless to resist the tide" will soon be forgotten.
The Daily Mail is not a newspaper, just a non-prescription means of raising your dander.Daily Mail, 2nd September: "Unless Europe tightens its asylum rules and reimposes border controls – both internal and external – migrants will continue to flood in, while Britain will be all but powerless to resist the tide."
Daily Mail, 3rd September: "Pictures of Aylan’s limp body in the sand and of it being carried by a local gendarme have come to epitomise the crisis engulfing Europe as a tide of humanity flees the horrors in the Middle East."
It must be very confusing if you get your news from the Mail, not knowing if dead children were fleeing the horrors of home or simply taking advantage of lax border controls. Hopefully normal service will be resumed tomorrow. The image of a small boy who really was "powerless to resist the tide" will soon be forgotten.
What is the problem with the two snippets?
I see no contradiction, both are true.
What is your problem exactly?
otolith said:
We need to keep in mind that those photographs are of children who drowned trying to get from Turkey to Greece. We may not be able to guarantee safety for refugees in Syria, but we could do it in Turkey. Would that be enough to stop them trying to get into the EU? I suspect not.
Ultimately, if we don't want people to drown in the Med or suffocate in lorries, we have two options; completely close the routes, so that they cannot be successfully used and are known to be impossible, or open the borders and help them all into the EU safely.
This is the point I don't get... Flee from Syria... not a problem, what I have a problem is that they are not fleeing to safety and staying in Turkey, etc. They are now looking to just come across and want the free money the EU gives in handouts, thats not Fleeing for their lives, thats just economic migrants.Ultimately, if we don't want people to drown in the Med or suffocate in lorries, we have two options; completely close the routes, so that they cannot be successfully used and are known to be impossible, or open the borders and help them all into the EU safely.
I probably won't win any supporters on this at all, but what is wrong with Turkey and what on earth happened to the rule that migrants can stay in the country they come to first and not pick the one that gives them the most?
NicD said:
What a load of red faced twaddle!
What is the problem with the two snippets?
I see no contradiction, both are true.
What is your problem exactly?
Are you Lord Rothermere? It's a ghastly rag just like all the tabloids and an increasing proportion of the broadsheets, with the bonus of telling readers that this, that and the other is cancer causing/curing, or possibly both if the sub-editor is asleep.What is the problem with the two snippets?
I see no contradiction, both are true.
What is your problem exactly?
PRTVR said:
Not answering for Hooli, but I am interested why you think the picture is important in as much as people children as well have been drowned crossing the med for years, how many died waiting for rescue that never came, because that's the way they thought the system worked, make them think all they have to do is get a boat, send out a distress signal and that's free entry into Europe, until something goes wrong, are we not encouraging more to take the risk.
I would also be interested why Turkey is not stopping them set off, its not a war zone, its a holiday area.
The Australians have proved turning them back works, the numbers set out in boats with all the risks that intails has reduced massively.
The picture is important because it puts a human dimension on the issue - a dimension that was apparently all too easily overlooked if people are saying "Let them drown". Did Hooli overlook that human dimension, or did he (and the others on this thread who were of like opinion) simply not care?I would also be interested why Turkey is not stopping them set off, its not a war zone, its a holiday area.
The Australians have proved turning them back works, the numbers set out in boats with all the risks that intails has reduced massively.
The UK is an island nation, with a long and proud seafaring tradition. How on earth did its citizens come to the conclusion that it's acceptable to steam away from drowning people?
slow_poke said:
PRTVR said:
Not answering for Hooli, but I am interested why you think the picture is important in as much as people children as well have been drowned crossing the med for years, how many died waiting for rescue that never came, because that's the way they thought the system worked, make them think all they have to do is get a boat, send out a distress signal and that's free entry into Europe, until something goes wrong, are we not encouraging more to take the risk.
I would also be interested why Turkey is not stopping them set off, its not a war zone, its a holiday area.
The Australians have proved turning them back works, the numbers set out in boats with all the risks that intails has reduced massively.
The picture is important because it puts a human dimension on the issue - a dimension that was apparently all too easily overlooked if people are saying "Let them drown". Did Hooli overlook that human dimension, or did he (and the others on this thread who were of like opinion) simply not care?I would also be interested why Turkey is not stopping them set off, its not a war zone, its a holiday area.
The Australians have proved turning them back works, the numbers set out in boats with all the risks that intails has reduced massively.
The UK is an island nation, with a long and proud seafaring tradition. How on earth did its citizens come to the conclusion that it's acceptable to steam away from drowning people?
slow_poke said:
The UK is an island nation, with a long and proud seafaring tradition. How on earth did its citizens come to the conclusion that it's acceptable to steam away from drowning people?
Where is there evidence joe public thinks that? Quite apart from the fact steaming away from people in distress at sea is a good way to lose your ticket and perhaps end up in gaol; SOLAS is pretty clear on the subject.Edited by hidetheelephants on Thursday 3rd September 22:31
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