UK axes support for Mediterranean migrant rescue operation
Discussion
hidetheelephants said:
Where is there evidence joe public thinks that? Quite apart from the fact steaming away from people in distress at sea is a good way to lose your ticket and perhaps end up in gaol; SOLAS is pretty clear on the subject.
Was your post aimed at me? If so I never said to let them drowned, my point was to rescue them but return them to where they came from.As a Brit who has lived in several countries, I'm sadly beginning to feel embarrassed about the UK's (and many on PH) seemingly narrow-minded attitude to the result of genuine human catastrophe. I think that it is sure that a certain proportion of the refugees are in it for the economic benefits, but the majority are not. They want to have their kids go to school, they want to live in safety, without heavily armed groups attacking their neighbourhood. They want to live in a functioning society with power, water and health care among other things. Pretty much like the rest of us I think. They are not economic migrants.
As for the causes of this misery, the two countries which played a major part in the upheaval of the region, want nothing to do with the results unless they can make some money out of it.
For those that say that the UK is too crowded, takes too many migrants already, is the country of choice and has a wonderful refugee benefits package compared to the major countries in Europe, put your statistics up and I'll do my best tomorrow to respond to sensible debate.
As for the causes of this misery, the two countries which played a major part in the upheaval of the region, want nothing to do with the results unless they can make some money out of it.
For those that say that the UK is too crowded, takes too many migrants already, is the country of choice and has a wonderful refugee benefits package compared to the major countries in Europe, put your statistics up and I'll do my best tomorrow to respond to sensible debate.
Du1point8 said:
otolith said:
We need to keep in mind that those photographs are of children who drowned trying to get from Turkey to Greece. We may not be able to guarantee safety for refugees in Syria, but we could do it in Turkey. Would that be enough to stop them trying to get into the EU? I suspect not.
Ultimately, if we don't want people to drown in the Med or suffocate in lorries, we have two options; completely close the routes, so that they cannot be successfully used and are known to be impossible, or open the borders and help them all into the EU safely.
This is the point I don't get... Flee from Syria... not a problem, what I have a problem is that they are not fleeing to safety and staying in Turkey, etc. They are now looking to just come across and want the free money the EU gives in handouts, thats not Fleeing for their lives, thats just economic migrants.Ultimately, if we don't want people to drown in the Med or suffocate in lorries, we have two options; completely close the routes, so that they cannot be successfully used and are known to be impossible, or open the borders and help them all into the EU safely.
I probably won't win any supporters on this at all, but what is wrong with Turkey and what on earth happened to the rule that migrants can stay in the country they come to first and not pick the one that gives them the most?
paul.deitch said:
As a Brit who has lived in several countries, I'm sadly beginning to feel embarrassed about the UK's (and many on PH) seemingly narrow-minded attitude to the result of genuine human catastrophe. I think that it is sure that a certain proportion of the refugees are in it for the economic benefits, but the majority are not. They want to have their kids go to school, they want to live in safety, without heavily armed groups attacking their neighbourhood. They want to live in a functioning society with power, water and health care among other things. Pretty much like the rest of us I think. They are not economic migrants.
As for the causes of this misery, the two countries which played a major part in the upheaval of the region, want nothing to do with the results unless they can make some money out of it.
For those that say that the UK is too crowded, takes too many migrants already, is the country of choice and has a wonderful refugee benefits package compared to the major countries in Europe, put your statistics up and I'll do my best tomorrow to respond to sensible debate.
Don't get me wrong when I say this as I am happy for a few train loads to head our way as we should be doing our bit, but the vast majority we are seeing rebelling against the authorities in Hungary and Kos are doing so because they do not want to be registered in that country as they have to stay there. Most we are seeing on the news want Germany, they are not searching for a safe place as they are already in one they want Germany and the ones that don't want Brittain.As for the causes of this misery, the two countries which played a major part in the upheaval of the region, want nothing to do with the results unless they can make some money out of it.
For those that say that the UK is too crowded, takes too many migrants already, is the country of choice and has a wonderful refugee benefits package compared to the major countries in Europe, put your statistics up and I'll do my best tomorrow to respond to sensible debate.
The only solution is register all then using a quota sysem let them pull out a lottery ticket to decide which other country they can reside in where all EU nation take a fair share.
PRTVR said:
hidetheelephants said:
Where is there evidence joe public thinks that? Quite apart from the fact steaming away from people in distress at sea is a good way to lose your ticket and perhaps end up in gaol; SOLAS is pretty clear on the subject.
Was your post aimed at me? If so I never said to let them drowned, my point was to rescue them but return them to where they came from.What Joe Public thinks, eh? How about some Joe Publics who posted on this thread:
DrDoofenshmirtz said:
Good.
All we need now is the French to round up all the charities feeding and giving shelter to the migrants who make it to calais and chuck them in the sea.
Problem solved.
Bearing in mind the title of this thread: UK axes support for Mediterranean migrant rescue operationAll we need now is the French to round up all the charities feeding and giving shelter to the migrants who make it to calais and chuck them in the sea.
Problem solved.
we get this sort of post:
JagLover said:
They have made a decision to set out into the Mediterranean in unsafe boats and we are under no obligation to rescue them from the consequences of that decision....
Right. OK. Islander mentality at its best, eh.I don't know what the answer to this problem is, but seeing a picture of a dead 3 year old on the beach, that is completely f
ked.
Anyway, this is not the first time refugees have made hazardous journeys by boat and it probably will not be the last.
Here is a recent example of mass boat migration on an even bigger scale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_peop...
ked. Anyway, this is not the first time refugees have made hazardous journeys by boat and it probably will not be the last.
Here is a recent example of mass boat migration on an even bigger scale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_peop...
Edited by creampuff on Thursday 3rd September 22:42
I'd be quite happy for the UK to take a pro rata quantity of the apparently arbitrary number identified by Germany as how many the EU should take. However I worry that allowing the very large number that have delivered themselves via Greece, Italy etc to stay simply because they're here is an invitation for every other migrant and refugee to abandon all the legitimate means of seeking asylum, creating a huge logistical problem and political death trap, filling the pockets of scumbag smugglers and drowning hundreds if not thousands more in the Med as a result. If we are going to take refugees, we select them from the vast camps in Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan, process them out there and stick them on a plane in a civilised manner. The free-for-all developing in eastern europe has the potential for disaster and I don't understand what Merkel is playing at by encouraging more to follow.
Smollet said:
They need to be given a safe haven until their own country is fit for them to return to. How long that will take is anyone's guess but the need to eradicate ISIS and their kind has never been more paramount.
I think everybody agrees on that.Question is, why are we seeing picture from a safe haven(Hungary) of thousands of refugees refusing to be processed.
NoNeed said:
Smollet said:
They need to be given a safe haven until their own country is fit for them to return to. How long that will take is anyone's guess but the need to eradicate ISIS and their kind has never been more paramount.
I think everybody agrees on that.Question is, why are we seeing picture from a safe haven(Hungary) of thousands of refugees refusing to be processed.
NoNeed said:
Question is, why are we seeing picture from a safe haven(Hungary) of thousands of refugees refusing to be processed.
Probably for the same reason that there are refugees in Indonesia (which is a safe and democratic country) who want to risk a boat journey to get to Australia: they have achieved their primary objective of going somewhere safe, their minds have turned to other objective like settling in a more developed country with better job and economic prospects. I can't say I blame them, if I was in their shoes, I'd probably do the same. They have come this far, why not go further? Particularly as I don't think the EU has the bottle to make them stay in Hungary and they are likely to know that too.
Local to me, someone is arranging a "Donation Drop" in aid of "Calais Solidarity" in which we are beseeched to offer food items, clothing, shelter, eg tents and camping apparatus, toiletries, and, I kid you not, mobile phones. What, so they can better coordinate the next mass break-in at the tunnel? Talk about giving out the wrong message. No pun intended.
creampuff said:
Probably for the same reason that there are refugees in Indonesia (which is a safe and democratic country) who want to risk a boat journey to get to Australia: they have achieved their primary objective of going somewhere safe, their minds have turned to other objective like settling in a more developed country with better job and economic prospects.
I can't say I blame them, if I was in their shoes, I'd probably do the same. They have come this far, why not go further? Particularly as I don't think the EU has the bottle to make them stay in Hungary and they are likely to know that too.
I was working in Hungary this year training people at a sub contract manufacturing and repair centre. Lots of companies sending work there, low cost geography and all that. I can't say I blame them, if I was in their shoes, I'd probably do the same. They have come this far, why not go further? Particularly as I don't think the EU has the bottle to make them stay in Hungary and they are likely to know that too.
The country is awesome, there are prospects everywhere cost of living low ok so are wages but it evens out. He'll even I wanted to stay. I'm sure there are bad parts of Hungary but can you explain what you mean by more developed?
creampuff said:
I can't say I blame them, if I was in their shoes, I'd probably do the same. They have come this far, why not go further? Particularly as I don't think the EU has the bottle to make them stay in Hungary and they are likely to know that too.
Great attitude, make me almost want to say fk it and stop obeying all of societies rules because I can be a bit better off financially, sod the morals. I'll just stop paying my taxes because I feel it's better for me personally. I'll borrow a few hundred thousand pounds, squirrel it away and go bankrupt. Probably go to the USA and just stay there for a few years illegally, because it's a place I just feel I could have a better lifestyle.creampuff said:
Here is a recent example of mass boat migration on an even bigger scale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_peop...
I know a very successful builder who remembers as a young child escaping on one of those boats. Probably the hardest working guy I've ever met. They were rescued hopelessly off course, with no fuel, well away from the shipping lanes by a British Navy ship returning to the UK... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_peop...
It makes you wonder if you have the resoursefulness, guile and determination to escape a nasty regime and get your family half way across a continent safely with only a few $ to your name if those arn't exactly the kind of people we should be welcoming with open arms. Half our indiginous population couldn't get to Syria if you bought them a flight to Turkey. 
Ok. Half our indiginous population couldn't get home from Syria if you bought them a flight from Turkey!NoNeed said:
Question is, why are we seeing picture from a safe haven(Hungary) of thousands of refugees refusing to be processed.
I missed this a few days ago...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-31/...
Article said:
In Slovakia, whose neighbor Hungary has erected a razor-wire fence on its southern border with Serbia, Prime Minister Robert Fico said his country would help those who needed protection, but 95 percent were “economic migrants.”
MajorProblem said:
Interesting that their prime minister is supporting the residents and telling it how it is whilst here in Britain we are pandering to all the dickeheads who will just say what ever gets them the most green ticks / likes / flares / gold / upvotes etc.
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