UK axes support for Mediterranean migrant rescue operation

[JagLover]

Pesty said:

I was working in Hungary this year training people at a sub contract manufacturing and repair centre. Lots of companies sending work there, low cost geography and all that.

The country is awesome, there are prospects everywhere cost of living low ok so are wages but it evens out. He'll even I wanted to stay. I'm sure there are bad parts of Hungary but can you explain what you mean by more developed?

Great potential in a lot of Eastern European countries, they don't hand out free housing and cash just for turning up though.

[JagLover]

Mermaid said:

MajorProblem said:

Interesting that their prime minister is supporting the residents and telling it how it is whilst here in Britain we are pandering to all the dickeheads who will just say what ever gets them the most green ticks / likes / flares / gold / upvotes etc.

"Minority" groups here have far more votes than they have in those countries

Very little to do with it.

Eastern European politicians tend to be a more sensible bunch and actually put the interests of their citizens above appearing "right on".

[thehawk]

JagLover said:

Very little to do with it.

Eastern European politicians tend to be a more sensible bunch and actually put the interests of their citizens above appearing "right on".

The Hungarian PM is spot on.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/world/europe/...

[Randy Winkman]

thehawk said:

JagLover said:

Very little to do with it.

Eastern European politicians tend to be a more sensible bunch and actually put the interests of their citizens above appearing "right on".

The Hungarian PM is spot on.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/world/europe/...

I'm not Christian, should I leave? Or are atheists OK?

I'm pleased to see that in the last few days we seem to have left behind the shameful pretence that the whole issue was about stopping people from getting to the UK on trucks. And the politicians seem to have got past the idea that all they can do is argue about who pays for security. No 10 seems to have gone Twitter mad this afternoon telling us what the UK is going to do to help those in need. Better late than never.

[thehawk]

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not Christian, should I leave? Or are atheists OK?

It's 2015, Abrahamic religious texts and religion are already proven to be false, certainly written by men and their content either myth or metaphor. We do not need any increasing religion of any form in our societies.

[JagLover]

Looks like all of the media hasn't abandoned rational thought

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...

[Mermaid]

JagLover said:

Looks like all of the media hasn't abandoned rational thought

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...

Excellent.

[voyds9]

paul.deitch said:

As a Brit who has lived in several countries, I'm sadly beginning to feel embarrassed about the UK's (and many on PH) seemingly narrow-minded attitude to the result of genuine human catastrophe. I think that it is sure that a certain proportion of the refugees are in it for the economic benefits, but the majority are not. They want to have their kids go to school, they want to live in safety, without heavily armed groups attacking their neighbourhood. They want to live in a functioning society with power, water and health care among other things. Pretty much like the rest of us I think. They are not economic migrants.

So they aren't economic migrants, they are just moving for the things money can buy.

I have sympathy for the general public in Syria and can understand their need to flee

I cannot understand their claim that travelling several thousand miles is just for safety reasons.

[thehawk]

JagLover said:

Looks like all of the media hasn't abandoned rational thought

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...

It's the eloquent way of saying exactly what a few of us on here have been saying. The best solution is to have facilities as close to the conflict zones, where they can be processed quickly and fairly.

The welcome refugees and open arms policy of Merkel has created a race to get there at all costs. The article is perfectly right in stating that the children's deaths and many other would have been saved had they had options earlier to apply for asylum.

But apparently if you don't welcome all comers and unlimited migration to Europe you are a Nazi, a monster, disgusting, people are ashamed and then you have nut cases setting up public shaming sites in Twitter and Wordpress

[Randy Winkman]

Mermaid said:

JagLover said:

Looks like all of the media hasn't abandoned rational thought

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...

Excellent.

Or, as the first comment on the site says:

"A truly half-baked and morally repugnant editorial, unworthy of a rebuttal. Reading many of the comments posted in response, you are obviously playing to your core online readership of reactionary half-wits and racists. If your editorial makes me ashamed to be English, then the generous, spontaneous response of so many people in this country since the Syrian civil war began reaffirms my faith in human decency."

Sums the Telegraph up really.

[Axionknight]

JagLover said:

Mermaid said:

MajorProblem said:

Interesting that their prime minister is supporting the residents and telling it how it is whilst here in Britain we are pandering to all the dickeheads who will just say what ever gets them the most green ticks / likes / flares / gold / upvotes etc.

"Minority" groups here have far more votes than they have in those countries

Very little to do with it.

Eastern European politicians tend to be a more sensible bunch and actually put the interests of their citizens above appearing "right on".

Oh yeah, it's why their countries are such decent places, corruption, crime, tolerance - beacons of light globally, no doubt about it.

[cayman-black]

Asterix said:

BlackLabel said:

7000 migrants rescued by the Italian navy in just one weekend.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/05/04/uk-europe...

Can't blame them. Watched it on the telly and it looked like they had great weather for a cruise.

I dont know whether to laugh or cry!

[cayman-black]

paul.deitch said:

As a Brit who has lived in several countries, I'm sadly beginning to feel embarrassed about the UK's (and many on PH) seemingly narrow-minded attitude to the result of genuine human catastrophe. I think that it is sure that a certain proportion of the refugees are in it for the economic benefits, but the majority are not. They want to have their kids go to school, they want to live in safety, without heavily armed groups attacking their neighbourhood. They want to live in a functioning society with power, water and health care among other things. Pretty much like the rest of us I think. They are not economic migrants.

As for the causes of this misery, the two countries which played a major part in the upheaval of the region, want nothing to do with the results unless they can make some money out of it.

For those that say that the UK is too crowded, takes too many migrants already, is the country of choice and has a wonderful refugee benefits package compared to the major countries in Europe, put your statistics up and I'll do my best tomorrow to respond to sensible debate.

Well all i can say is that in europe there has been quite a few murders by these refugees the same sort as the ones in Calais. The people of these countrys are the ones who are now scared, with some small towns residents being out numbered.

[hidetheelephants]

Randy Winkman said:

Or, as the first comment on the site says:

"A truly half-baked and morally repugnant editorial, unworthy of a rebuttal. Reading many of the comments posted in response, you are obviously playing to your core online readership of reactionary half-wits and racists. If your editorial makes me ashamed to be English, then the generous, spontaneous response of so many people in this country since the Syrian civil war began reaffirms my faith in human decency."

Sums the Telegraph up really.

In what way is it racist or reactionary to want government and EU policy to discourage rather than encourage people to drown themselves in the Med? Encouraging the drowning is what Merkel did and what Cameron is trying ineffectually to oppose; the entire Deutsche Marine needs to be deployed to the Med if she's going to make irresponsible policy like that, not just the two vessels deployed right now.

[thehawk]

Randy Winkman said:

Or, as the first comment on the site says:

"A truly half-baked and morally repugnant editorial, unworthy of a rebuttal. Reading many of the comments posted in response, you are obviously playing to your core online readership of reactionary half-wits and racists. If your editorial makes me ashamed to be English, then the generous, spontaneous response of so many people in this country since the Syrian civil war began reaffirms my faith in human decency."

Sums the Telegraph up really.

It really is tiresome to hear this over and over again. Disagree with leftist liberals and all they can do is start abusing people and screaming racist. They never offer a cohesive or reasonable argument, they just carry on with unrealistic ideas without a single thought about how they would work in reality.

Every fking thread on here, in news comments and and on Facebook - unless you are #welcomerefugees you are scum of the earth apparently.

[thehawk]

Randy Winkman said:

Or, as the first comment on the site says:

"A truly half-baked and morally repugnant editorial, unworthy of a rebuttal. Reading many of the comments posted in response, you are obviously playing to your core online readership of reactionary half-wits and racists. If your editorial makes me ashamed to be English, then the generous, spontaneous response of so many people in this country since the Syrian civil war began reaffirms my faith in human decency."

Sums the Telegraph up really.

It really is tiresome to hear this over and over again. Disagree with leftist liberals and all they can do is start abusing people and screaming racist. They never offer a cohesive or reasonable argument, they just carry on with unrealistic ideas without a single thought about how they would work in reality.

Every fking thread on here, in news comments and and on Facebook - unless you are #welcomerefugees you are scum of the earth apparently.

[JagLover]

hidetheelephants said:

In what way is it racist or reactionary to want government and EU policy to discourage rather than encourage people to drown themselves in the Med? Encouraging the drowning is what Merkel did and what Cameron is trying ineffectually to oppose; the entire Deutsche Marine needs to be deployed to the Med if she's going to make irresponsible policy like that, not just the two vessels deployed right now.

Logic has no part in this

Everyone needs to demonstrate how much they CARE and anyone who disagrees is a bigoted reactionary.

[JagLover]

thehawk said:

It really is tiresome to hear this over and over again. Disagree with leftist liberals and all they can do is start abusing people and screaming racist. They never offer a cohesive or reasonable argument, they just carry on with unrealistic ideas without a single thought about how they would work in reality.

Every fking thread on here, in news comments and and on Facebook - unless you are #welcomerefugees you are scum of the earth apparently.

and as before the election they think the public are with them, but I think the public have more sense, as they showed then.

[Randy Winkman]

thehawk said:

Every fking thread on here, in news comments and and on Facebook - unless you are #welcomerefugees you are scum of the earth apparently.

I must be on the wrong site by mistake - this is PH isn't it?

[creampuff]

Randy Winkman said:

Or, as the first comment on the site says:

"A truly half-baked and morally repugnant editorial, unworthy of a rebuttal. Reading many of the comments posted in response, you are obviously playing to your core online readership of reactionary half-wits and racists. If your editorial makes me ashamed to be English, then the generous, spontaneous response of so many people in this country since the Syrian civil war began reaffirms my faith in human decency."

Sums the Telegraph up really.

That's as half-arsed a comment as the equally half-arsed let them drown comments by xenophobic nutters. Saying "Sums the Telegraph up really." also makes you look like a giant dildo.

The world has a long history of mass refugee crises and there is no simple answer to any of them. Just one example is the Vietnam War After the Vietnam War, large numbers of Vietnamese spent a long time in holding camps in a number of places including Hong Kong or the Philippines and large numbers also embarked on hazardous boat journeys, where an even larger proportion died as they were open ocean journeys rather than the inter-island journeys now being made in the Med. Here is an article about the Philippine post Vietnam War camps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Refugee_P...

A camp along the western edge of Syria or in Turkey seems to me like it would save a lot of lives, like the Vietnam era camps in HK or Philippines saved Vietnamese refugees embarking on dangerous journeys over longer distances where a lot would have died.

It also seems to me that Germany having an open door policy, encourages exactly that problem of people putting themselves at risk to get there.

OTOH I doubt the idea of returning Syrian refugees to Syria is going to happen any time soon and I don't think it is realistic to expect people to live in a refugee camp for years. The refugees are going to have to go somewhere, permanent, not a camp but an open door Germany policy just causes death and chaos on the way.

Edited by creampuff on Friday 4th September 20:58